Petition | Remove ASIC cards entirely
Join Date: Mar 2013
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that sounds like a better idea.
like I said nobody has stopped me or done anything when I've been airside without mine visible. If they did what they were supposed to do wouldn't I be stopped and questioned? What's the point of having them if nobody is checking? smaller airfields not too far away have fences that are knee high and there is nobody around watching. That said I cannot quickly come up with a better way to secure aircraft/fields that makes everyone happy, wouldn't cot too much etc etc
like I said nobody has stopped me or done anything when I've been airside without mine visible. If they did what they were supposed to do wouldn't I be stopped and questioned? What's the point of having them if nobody is checking? smaller airfields not too far away have fences that are knee high and there is nobody around watching. That said I cannot quickly come up with a better way to secure aircraft/fields that makes everyone happy, wouldn't cot too much etc etc
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Fair enough for a background check for the initial issue, but renewals should be automatic, simple production of the current ASIC and a fresh photo to get a new one.
Yet the ASIC card is not a vaild form of identification.......
I suggest everyone have a read of the fine print on your ASIC application and look at everything you HAVE to declare, even though there are laws in place to protect people from this, the ASIC card is exempt.
Last edited by ga_trojan; 20th Jun 2013 at 01:43.
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Background check by AUSCHECK which on its own is about $100, admin charge to process by the issuing body and the cost of producing the card. The card with photo is relatively inexpensive and simple but the equipment to put the foil kinegram strip is about a $35,000 investment.
A few years ago, I had to get a 'Working with Children" card which involves a similar background check, but only costs $100 (and it's free for volunteers who need the card). But then, the WWC card doesn't have the stylish 'anti-terrorist' foil kinegram strip.
If it didn't cost so much, people wouldn't be whinging about it so much.
The whole "security" (blanket) concept is nothing but an embuggerance upon the whole industry and especially upon those least likely to pose any threat - people flying small aeroplanes to/from small population centers, and Security-checked and background-checked airline staff who have to take their boots, belts and bras off every time they go to work.
DG/DAMP-style security & threat awareness training would be a much more worthwhile embuggerance.
The actual costs of the security checks are not too great a burden if there is a reasonable benefit (eg, capital city Heavy jet RPT ops)
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Pilot licences should replace ASIC
Hi all,
I'm glad to hear the petition has at least stimulated some debate on the subject here. Although it's unlikely that the petiton will get rid of ASIC entirely there's a chance that pilots could become exempt via a security check from the body issuing their pilot's licence and a photo on their licence. This should to reduce the cost and the hassle of getting another card to fly.
As to the foil strip on the card - How many airfelds or airports have any facility to verify the validity of the card or foil strip. Fake ASICS are available in Bankok for a few dollars just by providing a photo id. I suspect the fakes would be accepted in any airport security in this country. ASIC was poorly thought through and it's implementation rushed through without providing the infrastructure to make it a valid security device.
I think that online petitions are one way of using the Internet to provide grass-root democratic power. The fact that it's easy to sign doesn't reduce the validity of the cause. No matter how easy it is to sign people won't put their name to it if they don't agree with the premise presented.
Cheers,
Greg.
PS Flame-on guys.
I'm glad to hear the petition has at least stimulated some debate on the subject here. Although it's unlikely that the petiton will get rid of ASIC entirely there's a chance that pilots could become exempt via a security check from the body issuing their pilot's licence and a photo on their licence. This should to reduce the cost and the hassle of getting another card to fly.
As to the foil strip on the card - How many airfelds or airports have any facility to verify the validity of the card or foil strip. Fake ASICS are available in Bankok for a few dollars just by providing a photo id. I suspect the fakes would be accepted in any airport security in this country. ASIC was poorly thought through and it's implementation rushed through without providing the infrastructure to make it a valid security device.
I think that online petitions are one way of using the Internet to provide grass-root democratic power. The fact that it's easy to sign doesn't reduce the validity of the cause. No matter how easy it is to sign people won't put their name to it if they don't agree with the premise presented.
Cheers,
Greg.
PS Flame-on guys.
Folks, I need to know who would be a good representative voice for GA on this? Either individual or organisation. Not promising anything but there are some rumblings that might lead to change. Feel free to PM me with details. All info in the strictest confidence.
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The whole system is ridiculously corrupt and repetitive.
I've had to have no less than four "background checks" by whomever does them in the last two years. One for a heavy vehicle licence, one for an ASIC renewal and two with various recruitment agencies.
Surely the relevant data would still be held by those that actually do the checking and they're just pissing themselves laughing at every irrelevant background check that is repeated so frequently? I can hear them laughing in glee as their accounts fill with money for pointless repetition...
Instead of an ASIC card, why not a "Fit and proper person" card that has weight outside of the narrow scope it's issued with? So the person who has had the checks done can simply wave it when asked and that's all that is needed?
You all do know there is an MSIC card as well? Essentially the same card for marine operations...why not just one card for many uses?
I've had to have no less than four "background checks" by whomever does them in the last two years. One for a heavy vehicle licence, one for an ASIC renewal and two with various recruitment agencies.
Surely the relevant data would still be held by those that actually do the checking and they're just pissing themselves laughing at every irrelevant background check that is repeated so frequently? I can hear them laughing in glee as their accounts fill with money for pointless repetition...
Instead of an ASIC card, why not a "Fit and proper person" card that has weight outside of the narrow scope it's issued with? So the person who has had the checks done can simply wave it when asked and that's all that is needed?
You all do know there is an MSIC card as well? Essentially the same card for marine operations...why not just one card for many uses?
Last edited by Typhoon650; 21st Jun 2013 at 23:56.
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We could call it the Australia Card...
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I was recently sent a letter (to my home address) from a financial institution asking me to verify my address for the purpose of ensuring that correspondence was being sent to the correct address.....I shake my head.....
In response I sent back the pre-paid response envelope empty....and I felt better after doing that. I know this has nothing to do with ASIC cards but thought I'd chuck it in anyway....
STiky
In response I sent back the pre-paid response envelope empty....and I felt better after doing that. I know this has nothing to do with ASIC cards but thought I'd chuck it in anyway....
STiky
You all do know there is an MSIC card as well? Essentially the same card for marine operations...why not just one card for many uses?
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I've never been able to renew my asic because the software always crashes.
if we need an asic why not make it for 10 years at a time? ...like a passport.
if we need an asic why not make it for 10 years at a time? ...like a passport.
Thread Starter
...if we need an asic why not make it for 10 years at a time? ...like a passport.
.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 23rd Jun 2013 at 01:50.
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asic renewals
they also require a new copy of birth certificates and drivers lic for each renewal why most of us were only born once. also heard some RAAF people dont reconise them!!
Good question cattle truck. Across tHe board for all ASIC applicants the percentage is very low. Sorry I don't have exact figures. Whether that percentage is proportionate specifically with pilots I don't know. The only pilots I've known to have any trouble are first time applicants undergoing training.
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From ASIOs 2011-12 annual report. http://www.asio.gov.au/img/files/ASI...-12_part-2.pdf
If, as a citizen, you haven't come to the attention of any criminal investigatory agencies then there are no electronic records hence ASIO can't really issue an 'adverse finding'.
I mean, ASIO is not going to interview your co-workers, friends, referees, etc, for a crappy ASIC card.
The main purpose of the biennial expiry is to not allow perpetual trust to exist., but with a simple change to the system the current 'security' level could still be maintained and we would undergo less crap and expense and (dare one hope) the ASIC could become used as an identity document.
The change is that ASICs are automatically re-issued unless ASIO has determined in its' regular trawls through the various criminal databases that the recipient is of concern to them.
Counter-terrorism security assessments
Counter-terrorism security assessments are conducted to assess the suitability of a person on counter-terrorism grounds to access areas or materials that are restricted, such as Australia’s air and maritime ports, other security sensitive facilities, access to dangerous goods or accreditation to special events. Requests for counter-terrorism security assessments are received by ASIO from AusCheck and the Australian Federal Police, with the vast majority requested by AusCheck for aviation and maritime security identification cards.
In 2011–12, ASIO completed 153,644 counter-terrorism security assessments, a 40 per cent increase on those completed for 2010–11. No adverse or qualified counter-terrorism security assessments were issued in 2011–12.
Counter-terrorism security assessments are conducted to assess the suitability of a person on counter-terrorism grounds to access areas or materials that are restricted, such as Australia’s air and maritime ports, other security sensitive facilities, access to dangerous goods or accreditation to special events. Requests for counter-terrorism security assessments are received by ASIO from AusCheck and the Australian Federal Police, with the vast majority requested by AusCheck for aviation and maritime security identification cards.
In 2011–12, ASIO completed 153,644 counter-terrorism security assessments, a 40 per cent increase on those completed for 2010–11. No adverse or qualified counter-terrorism security assessments were issued in 2011–12.
I mean, ASIO is not going to interview your co-workers, friends, referees, etc, for a crappy ASIC card.
The main purpose of the biennial expiry is to not allow perpetual trust to exist., but with a simple change to the system the current 'security' level could still be maintained and we would undergo less crap and expense and (dare one hope) the ASIC could become used as an identity document.
The change is that ASICs are automatically re-issued unless ASIO has determined in its' regular trawls through the various criminal databases that the recipient is of concern to them.
Last edited by Biggles_in_Oz; 25th Jun 2013 at 10:56.
So your saying zero % it is.
Biggles, very good points mate. For the life of me I cannot see why such a system would not work. WRT the ASIO not finding any adverse or CT security assessmen the percentage that Auscheck refuse are because of other security relevant offences as prescribed in the regs such as theft, drugs, violence etc.
Security is now a huge money making industry, I've said it b4 & to me it's obvious that if someone is determined to break thru the security system they will find a way & do so, I mean sheez paranoia is rife now around airports as they security goons are too busy checking the ones with ASIC cards to not notice the clever ones getting under the 'fence'!
Wmk2
Wmk2
Thread Starter
...too busy checking the ones with ASIC cards to not notice the clever ones getting under the 'fence'!
Who needs an ASIC...
German police foil Islamist terror plot to use remote controlled aircraft filled with explosives as guided missiles
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Last edited by Flying Binghi; 26th Jun 2013 at 03:55.