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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

Old 23rd May 2013, 01:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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But you forgot to mention the captains who have to babysit them.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 02:47
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well done Flyboat! What course were you on?

One more reason never to fly One Star!

j3
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Old 23rd May 2013, 02:52
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Not on the course - sitting in a confined space with other blokes - not for me I think.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 03:03
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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So not a pilot then?
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Old 23rd May 2013, 05:26
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Done a bit , not a whole lot , just wouldn't aspire to the flight deck of a Boeing or Airbus - but goodluck to those that do.

I would think that those who are trying to get an job with an rpt Jet operator in Aust, it really would be very grim wouldn't it.

How many DEs would have been hired by Virgin , Jetstar in 2011,12,13 , forget Qantas obviously - wouldn't be many would it ?

Some chances with FIFO but hardly big numbers
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Old 23rd May 2013, 06:56
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Probably part of the Oxford management team as suspected.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 07:24
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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What is it about these facts that bother you.

Just call the reps from your own union, they will confirm the data.

Well I guess the questions answers itself really, slim DE hiring over the past few years in Oz. Out of interest how many DE would have been hired at Jetstar & Virgin in 2011, 12 ,13 - wouldn't be many would it ? Less than 50 ?
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Old 23rd May 2013, 08:10
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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What is it about cutting down on direct entry recruiting (and by your posts gleefully limiting the opportunities of qualified pilots) that makes you so happy to defend it, and such a supporter of sausage factory low cost 200 hour cadets? The only beneficiary of this scheme is the airline, with probably some long term goal to supplant their current wage base with a new low entry one. Otherwise how can you argue a 200 hour cadet is any more effective as a pilot than one with more varied and longer experience?

But, every post you have put here so far marks you as a troll, so you probably are just happy to stir shit.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 08:12
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Just curious, are the cadets actually doing ICUS? Seeing as commands (if at all) would be many years away for these guys, the only purpose of ICUS would be to achieve a higher pay. Seems incompatible with the Jetstar model and I would be surprised if this is actually happening.

This is be a question for the actual cadets or somebody who knows rather than one of the providers spruiking their product!

Last edited by travelator; 23rd May 2013 at 08:13.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 08:21
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I don't really get what you're talking about saying to call the union. We know what happened in the past - the company attempted to save cash buy using lower pay rates for cadets but the union helped stop it. Good on them, well done Simon and the team!

But your comments about a lack of direct entry recruitment proves everyone else's point - why hire cadets if suitable pilots are out there?

Airline recruitment comes in peaks and troughs. There was a big peak a few years back, followed by a big trough, followed about 12-18 months ago by a small peak. We're in the trough now, but things will pick up again - history proves it. So why keep going on about no hiring causing frustration - direct hiring will happen again soon and make up the majority of recruitment.

I don't care if cadets are part of a long term plan to help supplement a steady supply of pilots. What I don't like is when they're used as pawns in a game to lower conditions even further. I also don't like folk who are so naive they can't see why most of the pilot group hate the cadet schemes. I really don't like the spin doctor flying schools who talk absolute rubbish to help feather their nest.

I like to play the ball, not the man. I don't personally dislike cadets - most of them are very good people and will make great pilots. But I hate them being thrown into the deep end with certain 'experts' claiming competency based training will ensure they're suitable to handle any situation. Maybe those experts should read a number of other academic studies about CRM, in particular situational awareness, and see why we're going to end up with a hole in the ground eventually when a low hour cadet was part of the crew. Yes, experienced pilots create holes occasionally too, but they also help prevent them to a greater extent then cadets do/will while they're learning about their operating evironment (that LOFT can never fully replicate).

First officers are there to act and contribute as part of the crew, not be trained in some aviation life skills for their next 1000 hours by an airline captain that LOFT and G1000 C172s couldn't replicate during their first 250 hours of 'experience'.

Last edited by VH-FTS; 23rd May 2013 at 08:25. Reason: Silly ipad
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Old 23rd May 2013, 08:45
  #31 (permalink)  
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Hey guys thanks for the replies gained some information. Also how much would the cadet be making after the 18 month course once they get a job at Jetstar? Does the pay increase during the six year contract?
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Old 24th May 2013, 03:12
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I can imagine cadet programs being a supplement to direct entry in the short term, but i believe the endgame will ultimately look like Ryanair et al. Hopefully i am proven wrong!
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Old 24th May 2013, 09:54
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Good post FTS

Especially this

But your comments about a lack of direct entry recruitment proves everyone else's point - why hire cadets if suitable pilots are out there?
and this

I don't care if cadets are part of a long term plan to help supplement a steady supply of pilots. What I don't like is when they're used as pawns in a game to lower conditions even further. I also don't like folk who are so naive they can't see why most of the pilot group hate the cadet schemes. I really don't like the spin doctor flying schools who talk absolute rubbish to help feather their nest.
and this

I like to play the ball, not the man. I don't personally dislike cadets - most of them are very good people and will make great pilots. But I hate them being thrown into the deep end with certain 'experts' claiming competency based training will ensure they're suitable to handle any situation.

Last edited by 27/09; 24th May 2013 at 09:56.
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Old 1st Jun 2013, 13:47
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Also how much would the cadet be making after the 18 month course once they get a job at Jetstar? Does the pay increase during the six year contract?
"Year 1 to 4 - $72k to $110k
Year 5 to 6 (Promoted to Captain) - $190k +"

That's what PATS say.

Last edited by FLGOFF; 1st Jun 2013 at 13:53.
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Old 1st Jun 2013, 14:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I would take PATS with a grain of salt...

Zero to hero in 5 years? In your dreams! I hope not for the sake of the travelling public - another good reason not to fly Jetstar...
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Old 1st Jun 2013, 18:11
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Whinging on here will not achieve anything. The Jetstar cadetship is legitimate otherwise it would not be happening. If a person chooses to stump up, accept the conditions & gets to sit in the right seat the rest of you should shut your mouths & make your own way in this industry. Things have changed whether you like it or not, if you don't like it, stop whinging and find a job in another industry.
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Old 1st Jun 2013, 18:56
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Bighead redhead?

The Jetstar cadetship is legitimate otherwise it would not be happening. If a person chooses to stump up, accept the conditions & gets to sit in the right seat the rest of you should shut your mouths & make your own way in this industry. Things have changed whether you like it or not, if you don't like it, stop whinging and find a job in another industry.
This goanna come back and bite you on the bum?

Last edited by Super Cecil; 1st Jun 2013 at 18:58. Reason: evolve child-centered mastery learning
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Old 1st Jun 2013, 23:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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No mate, the industry is what it is. No amount of discussion amongst pilots is going to change it. You all can accuse each other of doing things to have caused it but in the end the employers have introduced schemes that have no shortage of takers. If there is a shortage, maybe things will change, doubt it though.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 01:28
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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"Year 1 to 4 - $72k to $110k
Year 5 to 6 (Promoted to Captain) - $190k +"

That's what PATS say.
.
But as a cadet, you will have to deduct $15k+ per year paying off the training costs. And you will be on the junior first officer salary for 2 years too (assuming the previous comments are true).
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 02:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Jack R, your comments dismay me, especially coming from someone who says the are a pilot

The Jetstar cadetship is legitimate otherwise it would not be happening.
Hmmm, that is a very naive statement. there's plenty of evidence to show the contrary with stuff that's happened that wasn't legit or legal. Sometimes things keep happening or going on because it hasn't been tested in court. Even if it is "legal" it doesn't make it right.

If a person chooses to stump up, accept the conditions & gets to sit in the right seat the rest of you should shut your mouths & make your own way in this industry. Things have changed whether you like it or not, if you don't like it, stop whinging and find a job in another industry.
That's either a selfish or defeatist attitude, I'm not sure which, I'm inclined to think selfish. Everyone has the right to protest when they think something is not right or fair.

I think it is pretty obvious as to why the cadet scheme exists and that is to undermine pilots terms and conditions. If you're happy with that, you're entitled to that opinion but don't be annoyed when others stand up for their rights.

Last edited by 27/09; 2nd Jun 2013 at 02:23.
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