Post PPL advice, hour building, CPL, etc
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Post PPL advice, hour building, CPL, etc
Hey. I suppose you would see quite a lot of these threads on this website but I thought I'd add to the tally, seeing as there appears to be a lot of experienced pilots here willing to give advice.
I am currently PPL with retrac/csu and going to do an NVFR rating soon, as well as start my first CPL exams.
I understand there is a stream of pilots finishing their CPL/MECIR all looking for their first job, and that this is no magical-happy-land full of opportunities for everyone.
In my case, if everything goes to plan I will achieve my CPL relatively soon, and then more than likely go straight onto a MECIR.
What happens next I have yet to decide! This is why I am here
I would love to find work in Vic. I have a healthy relationship here, my family is here etc. I initially thought an instructor rating may be a wise investment, but upon investigation it is clear to me that while the experience may be good, junior instructors really do not make enough money to live on.
I like the idea of working for a skydiving company. There are a few dotted along the coast and some inland in Vic. However the only experience I have with them and their pilots is being on the other end of CTAF radio calls.
Do these companies like you to have a MECIR? Do you need a turbine endorsement?
What sort of training should I look at for myself outside of CPL/MECIR?
Are there jobs around here, even just occasionally, for someone at the experience level I have stated through which you can support yourself financially and get a start on a career?
Any advice is appreciated, if you've recently been there/done that and are making your way through your first or second job I'd love to hear from you... same for people who did it a decade or more ago and have already made their way into the industry.
In the mean time, if anybody has suggestions for places to visit for my hour building, shoot away! I am on one of those 150hr compounded course things, so my instructor is making sure I will do some decent challenging trips, but I'd like to hear suggestions for places to go that will provide a decent experience. I don't want to just visit the same places a couple of times a week and build 'boring' hours, I'd like to have something to show for my command time in my logbook.
Much appreciated
I am currently PPL with retrac/csu and going to do an NVFR rating soon, as well as start my first CPL exams.
I understand there is a stream of pilots finishing their CPL/MECIR all looking for their first job, and that this is no magical-happy-land full of opportunities for everyone.
In my case, if everything goes to plan I will achieve my CPL relatively soon, and then more than likely go straight onto a MECIR.
What happens next I have yet to decide! This is why I am here
I would love to find work in Vic. I have a healthy relationship here, my family is here etc. I initially thought an instructor rating may be a wise investment, but upon investigation it is clear to me that while the experience may be good, junior instructors really do not make enough money to live on.
I like the idea of working for a skydiving company. There are a few dotted along the coast and some inland in Vic. However the only experience I have with them and their pilots is being on the other end of CTAF radio calls.
Do these companies like you to have a MECIR? Do you need a turbine endorsement?
What sort of training should I look at for myself outside of CPL/MECIR?
Are there jobs around here, even just occasionally, for someone at the experience level I have stated through which you can support yourself financially and get a start on a career?
Any advice is appreciated, if you've recently been there/done that and are making your way through your first or second job I'd love to hear from you... same for people who did it a decade or more ago and have already made their way into the industry.
In the mean time, if anybody has suggestions for places to visit for my hour building, shoot away! I am on one of those 150hr compounded course things, so my instructor is making sure I will do some decent challenging trips, but I'd like to hear suggestions for places to go that will provide a decent experience. I don't want to just visit the same places a couple of times a week and build 'boring' hours, I'd like to have something to show for my command time in my logbook.
Much appreciated
Last edited by kabukiman; 26th Apr 2013 at 11:14.
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Quite a bit asked and most of your questions will generate some differing opinions, but here's mine.
Hour building. Head west/north and you'll get the challenge you want and see some spectacular scenery.
Now for some of your other questions...
Not sure what you've been told, but pilots don't get paid much... especially low hour pilots, be they junior instructors or a single engine VFR charter pilot.
Skydiving is private ops so you won't get the aviation award and with some operators you'll be lucky to get paid.
If you're not willing to move from your mates and family then you'll be a very very lucky person to get any sort of consistent flying work without doing the above two (forgetting about the getting paid well bit!).
Skydiving and instructing will be your best bets, but to be honest if you're only instructing to stay close to mummy and daddy then you really shouldn't be instructing.
Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few people who've managed to stay in a capital city and get paid well but they are generally the exception, not the rule,
and more often than not have another skillset to offer the employer, or are well connected.
As a newly minted CPL, with or without a MECIR you're really next to useless. An operator needs to spend quite a bit of time to get you polished up. Simple things like being able to handle a fully loaded plane in a decent crosswind is something most new CPL's often struggle with as they simply haven't been shown how to do it properly and to be honest how many times do you take off at MTOW during your training?
If I were you I'd strongly reconsider the restriction of staying in VIC as you'll only be restricting yourself, you'll make life long mates and have experiences that will stay with you a lifetime.
Hour building. Head west/north and you'll get the challenge you want and see some spectacular scenery.
Now for some of your other questions...
Not sure what you've been told, but pilots don't get paid much... especially low hour pilots, be they junior instructors or a single engine VFR charter pilot.
Skydiving is private ops so you won't get the aviation award and with some operators you'll be lucky to get paid.
If you're not willing to move from your mates and family then you'll be a very very lucky person to get any sort of consistent flying work without doing the above two (forgetting about the getting paid well bit!).
Skydiving and instructing will be your best bets, but to be honest if you're only instructing to stay close to mummy and daddy then you really shouldn't be instructing.
Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few people who've managed to stay in a capital city and get paid well but they are generally the exception, not the rule,
and more often than not have another skillset to offer the employer, or are well connected.
As a newly minted CPL, with or without a MECIR you're really next to useless. An operator needs to spend quite a bit of time to get you polished up. Simple things like being able to handle a fully loaded plane in a decent crosswind is something most new CPL's often struggle with as they simply haven't been shown how to do it properly and to be honest how many times do you take off at MTOW during your training?
If I were you I'd strongly reconsider the restriction of staying in VIC as you'll only be restricting yourself, you'll make life long mates and have experiences that will stay with you a lifetime.
I am thinking that first you get the license then you ask the questions that you didn't learn along the way.
Given that you already hold a PPL you could be dropping skydivers now as Parlot described. The best way to get a skydiving gig is to learn to jump first. No need to go the whole deal but skydivers always prefer to employ "one of their own". Learning to jump gives you the all important contacts you need to get a start as a drop pilot.
Good luck on the journey!
Given that you already hold a PPL you could be dropping skydivers now as Parlot described. The best way to get a skydiving gig is to learn to jump first. No need to go the whole deal but skydivers always prefer to employ "one of their own". Learning to jump gives you the all important contacts you need to get a start as a drop pilot.
Good luck on the journey!
not unless he has 100 hours command Aussie Bob, and if he doesn't hold a CPL then that's doubtful.
The best way to get a entry level skydiving gig is to get the minimums required to be a jump pilot by the APF, then start canvassing DZ's and hounding operators just the same as any other first aviation job.
Yeah you could go do an AFF course but seriously, it's not cheap, and a waste of money when you could spend that on another endo or rating in flying that may help your chances a little more getting the next gig. Just about all hour building jump pilots I know have done a tandem at most, and I know plenty of others that have not even done that.
The best way to get a entry level skydiving gig is to get the minimums required to be a jump pilot by the APF, then start canvassing DZ's and hounding operators just the same as any other first aviation job.
Yeah you could go do an AFF course but seriously, it's not cheap, and a waste of money when you could spend that on another endo or rating in flying that may help your chances a little more getting the next gig. Just about all hour building jump pilots I know have done a tandem at most, and I know plenty of others that have not even done that.
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Hey mate,
If you want any real flying experience you need to head to the Kimberley. Make the commitment, pack your bags and head up. So many operators these days won't take instructor hours seriously as you're not really doing anything most of the time.
My tips for you are get some time on 200 series Cessnas, as that's what everybody flies up here. You will need over 200 TT and 100 Pic to be taken seriously by most operators, a lot is to do with insurance requirements.
You'll be leaving your mates and mrs behind, but you will meet the best bunch of blokes on the way, and making contacts for jobs in the future, cause as we all know its who you know in aviation.
Best of luck.
If you want any real flying experience you need to head to the Kimberley. Make the commitment, pack your bags and head up. So many operators these days won't take instructor hours seriously as you're not really doing anything most of the time.
My tips for you are get some time on 200 series Cessnas, as that's what everybody flies up here. You will need over 200 TT and 100 Pic to be taken seriously by most operators, a lot is to do with insurance requirements.
You'll be leaving your mates and mrs behind, but you will meet the best bunch of blokes on the way, and making contacts for jobs in the future, cause as we all know its who you know in aviation.
Best of luck.
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Thanks for the replies guys, and thanks to those who PMed
I want to be clear, I'm not really living with my folks and I said I would like to stay here in Vic, but I certainly understand it may eventuate I will have to move interstate.
Like I said to someone who PMed I know full well there is little money in it. From what I have heard many other entry level jobs do pay better than junior instructing however. Money is not the goal but it would be nice to be able to support myself along with my first job.
I'd like to ask questions like this now because I find having some direction helps with the journey.
I am planning a journey to Alice Springs, I believe it is a requirement from my school. Also re: flying heavy aircraft, you are correct I have mostly dealt with a lightly loaded aircraft throughout my training and hour building thus far however since I achieved my csu/retrac in a heavier and faster aircraft I will probably be taking a few people and some stuff around for the practice.
It's all stuff to think about. I'm getting my head down an studying at the moment but this was a spur of the moment type thread, I thought what the hell, may as well get some questions answered
Cheers guys
I want to be clear, I'm not really living with my folks and I said I would like to stay here in Vic, but I certainly understand it may eventuate I will have to move interstate.
Like I said to someone who PMed I know full well there is little money in it. From what I have heard many other entry level jobs do pay better than junior instructing however. Money is not the goal but it would be nice to be able to support myself along with my first job.
I'd like to ask questions like this now because I find having some direction helps with the journey.
I am planning a journey to Alice Springs, I believe it is a requirement from my school. Also re: flying heavy aircraft, you are correct I have mostly dealt with a lightly loaded aircraft throughout my training and hour building thus far however since I achieved my csu/retrac in a heavier and faster aircraft I will probably be taking a few people and some stuff around for the practice.
It's all stuff to think about. I'm getting my head down an studying at the moment but this was a spur of the moment type thread, I thought what the hell, may as well get some questions answered
Cheers guys
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talking about skydiving and JPA etc.
I've got 600hrs aeronatical so far, but 400ish helicopter incl 100+ instructing (no, not CASA system, yet, will convert this 'summer') and 130hrs between Cub and 172, then some gliding.
How much are the skydiving clubs picky regarding the 100hrs PIC and mix'n'match with other classes/categories? The regs, OR 6.1.1 does not state airplane only.
Obviously, I'd do some sort of training/checkout and probably some 182/206 time as well. Read somewhere that Cherokee 6 is considered 'comparable' for the JPA. Not that I got any time, just curious about how far the similarity for JPA stretches.
I like GA flying, gliding, rotary and will work on my heli career, but I've been wanting to do some jumper dropping and glider towing besides other things. I'd also do some basic jumper training time/money permitting.
Talking about 182/206/210. Which schools would do reasonable cost SE CPL training/conversion in these? Killing two birds with one stone as I plan to avoid flying complex single in USA whenever I get to do ME CPL/IR. So far got SE PPL/IR.
The 182 or 200 series time would be handy for charters/scenics should I not fiddle with helicopters for whatever reason sometime.. :-)
I just don't see point in trying to fly jetliners.
I've got 600hrs aeronatical so far, but 400ish helicopter incl 100+ instructing (no, not CASA system, yet, will convert this 'summer') and 130hrs between Cub and 172, then some gliding.
How much are the skydiving clubs picky regarding the 100hrs PIC and mix'n'match with other classes/categories? The regs, OR 6.1.1 does not state airplane only.
Obviously, I'd do some sort of training/checkout and probably some 182/206 time as well. Read somewhere that Cherokee 6 is considered 'comparable' for the JPA. Not that I got any time, just curious about how far the similarity for JPA stretches.
I like GA flying, gliding, rotary and will work on my heli career, but I've been wanting to do some jumper dropping and glider towing besides other things. I'd also do some basic jumper training time/money permitting.
Talking about 182/206/210. Which schools would do reasonable cost SE CPL training/conversion in these? Killing two birds with one stone as I plan to avoid flying complex single in USA whenever I get to do ME CPL/IR. So far got SE PPL/IR.
The 182 or 200 series time would be handy for charters/scenics should I not fiddle with helicopters for whatever reason sometime.. :-)
I just don't see point in trying to fly jetliners.
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Save your money and stay a PPL. No point waisting $12K for an IFR rating and the rest for a CPL. To find out in 3-4 years that you are getting screwed royally and you have spent most of your left over savings trying to pay your expenses. Unless you have 3-4 mates to share the rent in a 3 bedroom ****house in Darwin, Kunnas, Broome it's going to be expensive.
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Save your money and stay a PPL. No point waisting $12K for an IFR rating and the rest for a CPL. To find out in 3-4 years that you are getting screwed royally and you have spent most of your left over savings trying to pay your expenses. Unless you have 3-4 mates to share the rent in a 3 bedroom ****house in Darwin, Kunnas, Broome it's going to be expensive.
