C210 missing south of Darwin
Wasn't / Isn't there a SIDS to inspect the wing spar on Cessnas, and a SIDS to inspect the control cables for corrosion / wear & tear?
Listening to a former FF employee, and he waxed very eloquent on SIDS, pointing out that (in his opinion) SIDS are almost impossible to prove whether or not they have actually been inspected.
Listening to a former FF employee, and he waxed very eloquent on SIDS, pointing out that (in his opinion) SIDS are almost impossible to prove whether or not they have actually been inspected.
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My "credentials" as i have posted before, several times, is i'm just a dumb ol barely literate hill farmer who just happens to fly. And, i'm a barely average pilot at that.
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That person was not the current owner. The PIC at the time was. However that engineer was in the air in the same area at the time. But your comment is other wise good. Sids are not required however until end of DEC this year.
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Can we start saving my tax dollars and disband the ATSB.
Given that it's clearly been decided that apparently due to a 'down draught' in poor weather, a wing spar failure occured just inside of the ailerons where the wings went down toward the fuselage, not up, contrary to popular belief.
Why bother being a rumour network when so many people clearly only speak 'facts'......
Given that it's clearly been decided that apparently due to a 'down draught' in poor weather, a wing spar failure occured just inside of the ailerons where the wings went down toward the fuselage, not up, contrary to popular belief.
Why bother being a rumour network when so many people clearly only speak 'facts'......
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To be fair, all of those points were made about the C210 in general and nobody said definitively that is what happened - just one possibility in a CB, into which it is somewhat possible that the plane flew, given weather on the day and reports of the pilot's radio calls.
GG:
"VNE excursions in strong down draughts are typical"
I don't understand that - observing a high descent rate, wouldn't the pilot seek to climb? Or did you mean by this stage the aircraft is out of control and "plummeting" in a nose dive? Just don't know how airspeed would necessarily change - I thought one reason for break-ups in CBs was that one wing could be in strong updraft, the other down.
GG:
"VNE excursions in strong down draughts are typical"
I don't understand that - observing a high descent rate, wouldn't the pilot seek to climb? Or did you mean by this stage the aircraft is out of control and "plummeting" in a nose dive? Just don't know how airspeed would necessarily change - I thought one reason for break-ups in CBs was that one wing could be in strong updraft, the other down.
TS's
I believe it's generally accepted that once inside a fully developed mature TS then all bets are off & comes down to a fight for survival!
The conditions within would be horrendous with up & down droughts exceeding the limits of most A/C of the light cat not to mention that the pilot 'may' only be VFR capable (I don't know that for a fact). This combined with the incredible disorientating environment the pilot found himself in together with the added fact that the ASI was now out of his control as a VFR driver as well as all the other inst going nuts! & possible lightening as well as possible defining hail belting the airframe ( & the screams within the cabin) would all add up to an uncontrollable event even to a well trained IFR pilot that saw the airframe leaving normal controlled flight 'till it hit the water/ground possibly not intact.
Obviously all of the above is just a scenario but is very plausible & it's been well documented that we ALL stay well away from TS's & for good reasons.
I once had the displeasure of experiencing some severe turb whilst flying down the side of a line of TS's in southern Vic by about 30-50 miles in clear visual air, the turb was nothing short of approaching airframe/pilot limits & I wasn't anywhere near it...well at least I thought I wasn't. I can't imagine what these people went thru if indeed he/they entered a TS.
Lets all hope that the poor unfortunates have gone to a better place & that this sad event will leave the rest of us a little more cautious.
Wmk2
The conditions within would be horrendous with up & down droughts exceeding the limits of most A/C of the light cat not to mention that the pilot 'may' only be VFR capable (I don't know that for a fact). This combined with the incredible disorientating environment the pilot found himself in together with the added fact that the ASI was now out of his control as a VFR driver as well as all the other inst going nuts! & possible lightening as well as possible defining hail belting the airframe ( & the screams within the cabin) would all add up to an uncontrollable event even to a well trained IFR pilot that saw the airframe leaving normal controlled flight 'till it hit the water/ground possibly not intact.
Obviously all of the above is just a scenario but is very plausible & it's been well documented that we ALL stay well away from TS's & for good reasons.
I once had the displeasure of experiencing some severe turb whilst flying down the side of a line of TS's in southern Vic by about 30-50 miles in clear visual air, the turb was nothing short of approaching airframe/pilot limits & I wasn't anywhere near it...well at least I thought I wasn't. I can't imagine what these people went thru if indeed he/they entered a TS.
Lets all hope that the poor unfortunates have gone to a better place & that this sad event will leave the rest of us a little more cautious.
Wmk2
Just jumping back to the original thread topic.
Wondering if they have found the actual aircraft wreck and/or 4th person?
If the wreck is found, we may actually have an idea if the wings were folded, the gear was out to slow down, if something else happened? Just a thought so i can prevent anything happening on any further flights. I do actually learn something from this thread every now and then
Cheers, KP
Wondering if they have found the actual aircraft wreck and/or 4th person?
If the wreck is found, we may actually have an idea if the wings were folded, the gear was out to slow down, if something else happened? Just a thought so i can prevent anything happening on any further flights. I do actually learn something from this thread every now and then
Cheers, KP
"VNE excursions in strong down draughts are typical"
It's when you push forward to maintain altitude with a 6000fpm up draught, then pull up when you hit the inevitable down draught that things get ugly.....
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They have cancelled the search.
the 4th person has been left to the gods.
they have found only scattered wreckage, nothing that resembles an aircraft.
Acting Commander Mark Christopher said: "Authorities today concentrated their land, air and sea search around the Anson Bay area, but apart from minor wreckage believed to be from the plane, have not located anything further".
"Advice we have received is that it's highly unlikely the plane would have remained intact. Search suspended | News | NT News | Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia | ntnews.com.au
the 4th person has been left to the gods.
they have found only scattered wreckage, nothing that resembles an aircraft.
Acting Commander Mark Christopher said: "Authorities today concentrated their land, air and sea search around the Anson Bay area, but apart from minor wreckage believed to be from the plane, have not located anything further".
"Advice we have received is that it's highly unlikely the plane would have remained intact. Search suspended | News | NT News | Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia | ntnews.com.au
Actually 'considering' up / down drafts is not really the issue, because all the PIC will be doing is (in this sort of aircraft) flying the AH and trying to keep it at low pitch and roll numbers, and opposing the + / - G (actually Gz) loads with the stick.
The reason for this is that if the AH gets too excited and falls over, its bye bye. The pitot/static system will be full of water and totally useless, so there's no partial panel ever going to happen, and that little gyro is all you're ever going to have.
That about all you can do, AH, gear out and the power set for what you know to correspond to turb penetration speed. Altitude, heading or track is not even going to be a consideration. Sit there and fly it until the wind and rain noise stops. Wally Mk2 got it pretty much spot on ! None of that would be feasible without a Instrument rating.
Oh yeah, the pax noise and water coming in though places you don't usually see it !
The reason for this is that if the AH gets too excited and falls over, its bye bye. The pitot/static system will be full of water and totally useless, so there's no partial panel ever going to happen, and that little gyro is all you're ever going to have.
That about all you can do, AH, gear out and the power set for what you know to correspond to turb penetration speed. Altitude, heading or track is not even going to be a consideration. Sit there and fly it until the wind and rain noise stops. Wally Mk2 got it pretty much spot on ! None of that would be feasible without a Instrument rating.
Oh yeah, the pax noise and water coming in though places you don't usually see it !
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Actually 'considering' up / down drafts is not really the issue, because all the PIC will be doing is (in this sort of aircraft) flying the AH and trying to keep it at low pitch and roll numbers, and opposing the + / - G (actually Gz) loads with the stick.
Actually any sort of aircraft refer AF447
Actually 'considering' up / down drafts is not really the issue, because all the PIC will be doing is (in this sort of aircraft) flying the AH and trying to keep it at low pitch and roll numbers, and opposing the + / - G (actually Gz) loads with the stick.
So yes, up-draughts/down-draughts or the old spiral/stall spin splat are the issue.
Having encountered a tropical TS through stupidity in a single engine charter machine, I can tell you it's a harrowing, mind numbing, bone chilling and regrettable experience.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 6th Apr 2013 at 02:18.
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Many posts seem to think C210 inflight break-ups are common. They're not. The C210 is very strong especially pulling positive Gs. A mate flying a C210 at 4500 ft up near MTI flew( in severe clear air) about 4 miles abeam a large CB with a well developed anvil. Without warning the aircraft dropped 200- 300ft throwing everyone violently off their seats hard against the belts.It was so violent the pilot ended up with his legs tangled up with those of the passenger in the PX legwell. The aircraft was then thrown around like a rag doll in a Rottweiler's mouth. It was so violent he couldn't extricate himself. He said it really made no difference as the aircraft was completely out of control and control column input seemed to have no effect. This went on for several minutes. He thought they were going to die.Then as suddenly as it started the violence stopped . They were at 12,500ft. He flew a long way from the cloud and not knowing what damage he might have and descended slowly to the nearest airport. On close examination the only damage they found was a few popped rivets in the top wing skin.He commented that he would never again doubt the strength of a 210 nor would he ever again fly within a bull's roar of a CB. Note at no time during the entire episode was he in cloud. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been had that occurred.
Last edited by rutan around; 6th Apr 2013 at 04:47.
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https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/436124...-063_final.pdf
No more sightings of aircraft wreckage were made until October 2013, when wreckage was
sighted in Anson Bay at low tide, about 2 km from the southern shoreline where debris had been
found. Northern Territory police attended the site and collected information that confirmed that the
wreckage was VH-EFB.
No more sightings of aircraft wreckage were made until October 2013, when wreckage was
sighted in Anson Bay at low tide, about 2 km from the southern shoreline where debris had been
found. Northern Territory police attended the site and collected information that confirmed that the
wreckage was VH-EFB.
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Top photo is remains of R/H wing spar (bottom of photo) cabin roof section (R/H is where windscreen would be) and top of photo L/H wing.
Remains of R/H wing not far away as with tail and other parts.
Remains of R/H wing not far away as with tail and other parts.
