C210 missing south of Darwin
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......back on topic... This says a lot, looks like they're looking off the coast
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GG
You are correct in that the wings break at the aileron inboard end in the downward mode. It occurs beyond vne due to the large washout inC210 wings. I've never heard of one breaking up where there wasn't some sort of control loss leading to an excursion outside the envelope.
A C210 spar is just as strong as any other type in it's class and is actually stronger than the early strutted models. The low Va is a sensible precaution to give a large margin before vne in rough conditions.
You are correct in that the wings break at the aileron inboard end in the downward mode. It occurs beyond vne due to the large washout inC210 wings. I've never heard of one breaking up where there wasn't some sort of control loss leading to an excursion outside the envelope.
A C210 spar is just as strong as any other type in it's class and is actually stronger than the early strutted models. The low Va is a sensible precaution to give a large margin before vne in rough conditions.
When the wing spar lets go the wings slap against the sides of the fuselage as opposed to the popular belief they clap overhead. I'm sure you knew that which is why you were asking.
There was a recent inflight breakup VH-WBZ. The ATSB report is available online.
As for the C210 reputation, why do you think it has such low Va and high cruise speed? It's the first thing you are briefed on when you fly it!
There was a recent inflight breakup VH-WBZ. The ATSB report is available online.
As for the C210 reputation, why do you think it has such low Va and high cruise speed? It's the first thing you are briefed on when you fly it!
Never been concerned about the wings coming off in an A36, PA32, SR22, likewise the 210.
The inflight breakup rate for the 210 as a percentage of the hours flown for the fleet isn't all that much different from the aircraft mentioned above.
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A C210 spar is just as strong as any other type in it's class and is actually stronger than the early strutted models.
GG - I was not having a go at you, just curious as to the basis of your broad statement.
I had forgotten about MBZ, but there were a range of other factors associated with that accident, ie weather.
I have a recollection of a survey C210 suffering a suspected inflight breakup, and there was a C201 on descent into Cloncurry some 30+ years ago.
Given the hundreds of thousands of hours flown by 210's in Oz over the last 40 years or so, three inflight breakups doesn't seem to warrant the label that you put on the aircraft.
And yes, I have a bunch of 210 hrs and fly a dreaded V-tail Bonanza!
I had forgotten about MBZ, but there were a range of other factors associated with that accident, ie weather.
I have a recollection of a survey C210 suffering a suspected inflight breakup, and there was a C201 on descent into Cloncurry some 30+ years ago.
Given the hundreds of thousands of hours flown by 210's in Oz over the last 40 years or so, three inflight breakups doesn't seem to warrant the label that you put on the aircraft.
And yes, I have a bunch of 210 hrs and fly a dreaded V-tail Bonanza!
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XXX
When the strutless 210s were first introduced there were a few cases of wing failure and their strength was compared unfavourably with the earlier strutted models. Testing showed they were actually stronger but because they are so aerodynamically clean mishandling took them past vne much quicker than occurred doing the same thing to one with struts. Education was the answer.
When the strutless 210s were first introduced there were a few cases of wing failure and their strength was compared unfavourably with the earlier strutted models. Testing showed they were actually stronger but because they are so aerodynamically clean mishandling took them past vne much quicker than occurred doing the same thing to one with struts. Education was the answer.
XXX
When the strutless 210s were first introduced there were a few cases of wing failure and their strength was compared unfavourably with the earlier strutted models. Testing showed they were actually stronger but because they are so aerodynamically clean mishandling took them past vne much quicker than occurred doing the same thing to one with struts. Education was the answer.
When the strutless 210s were first introduced there were a few cases of wing failure and their strength was compared unfavourably with the earlier strutted models. Testing showed they were actually stronger but because they are so aerodynamically clean mishandling took them past vne much quicker than occurred doing the same thing to one with struts. Education was the answer.
It's a high performance aeroplane that is very slippery and mishandled easily in the wrong hands. VNE excursions in strong down draughts are typical if mishandled. Hence getting the gear out and turning it into a 206 when in trouble.
You can argue all day about the strength of the 210 spar compared to other types, but other types won't overspeed as quickly as a 210. Even our lovable Bonanza. A 206 certainly won't.
As I said, there is a reason why they are probably searching off the coast. That is where the weather would have been 'better' at that time of day. Anyone with time in the NT or tropics for that matter knows this.
What upsets me about these accidents is the Pilot had his family on board, and launched into known weather in (probably) a VFR aeroplane. This is the result. Yes the commercial guys probably push it a bit with the weather this time of year, but they fly regularly and generally know their way around the area pretty well.
Latest from the ABC
A dozen aircraft and several police boats are continuing to search for a plane that went missing in the Northern Territory while carrying four people.
The plane left the Bullo River Station near the Eastern Kimberley region yesterday afternoon and was due to arrive a few hours later at Emkaytee airfield, south of Darwin.
On board were a 45-year-old man, his 53-year-old wife and their two children aged 12 and 15.
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) says the aircraft was last heard from when the pilot sent a radio message about bad weather.
"We received reports from the overnight search that the conditions were pretty bad," spokeswoman Jo Meehan said.
"They had quite low hanging cloud and was very poor visibility which did hamper overnight searches and we understand that there were storms in the Northern Territory yesterday."
Wet and blustery conditions hampered a search overnight, but Ms Meehan says conditions were improving earlier today.
"We understand the weather has improved slightly in the area, which is allowing us conduct our morning search," she said.
"We hope that it will remain that way for this afternoon's search as well."
Search and rescue crews have been searching an-1,800 square kilometre area between Cape Ford and Point Jenny.
The search area has been widened this afternoon with up to five fixed-wing aircraft and seven helicopters involved.
"We have a paramedic helicopter on standby from Tindal air station as well should we require any sort of first aid," Ms Meehan said.
"We'll be focusing on the area where the pilot was last heard from which is in the Cape Ford region.
"We will be doing both coastal and inland searches of Anson Bay so we might be using some surface vessels as well."
Staff at Bullo River Station are also helping in the search.
Emergency services are asking anyone who heard a low-flying aircraft or an aircraft in trouble between Port Keats and Anson Bay to contact police.
The plane left the Bullo River Station near the Eastern Kimberley region yesterday afternoon and was due to arrive a few hours later at Emkaytee airfield, south of Darwin.
On board were a 45-year-old man, his 53-year-old wife and their two children aged 12 and 15.
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) says the aircraft was last heard from when the pilot sent a radio message about bad weather.
"We received reports from the overnight search that the conditions were pretty bad," spokeswoman Jo Meehan said.
"They had quite low hanging cloud and was very poor visibility which did hamper overnight searches and we understand that there were storms in the Northern Territory yesterday."
Wet and blustery conditions hampered a search overnight, but Ms Meehan says conditions were improving earlier today.
"We understand the weather has improved slightly in the area, which is allowing us conduct our morning search," she said.
"We hope that it will remain that way for this afternoon's search as well."
Search and rescue crews have been searching an-1,800 square kilometre area between Cape Ford and Point Jenny.
The search area has been widened this afternoon with up to five fixed-wing aircraft and seven helicopters involved.
"We have a paramedic helicopter on standby from Tindal air station as well should we require any sort of first aid," Ms Meehan said.
"We'll be focusing on the area where the pilot was last heard from which is in the Cape Ford region.
"We will be doing both coastal and inland searches of Anson Bay so we might be using some surface vessels as well."
Staff at Bullo River Station are also helping in the search.
Emergency services are asking anyone who heard a low-flying aircraft or an aircraft in trouble between Port Keats and Anson Bay to contact police.
Last edited by outnabout; 2nd Apr 2013 at 04:46.
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Plane carrying 4 people missing in NT - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Includes interview with AMSA's Jo Meehan.
TB
Includes interview with AMSA's Jo Meehan.
TB
Last edited by TunaBum; 2nd Apr 2013 at 05:20.
Quote:
When the wing spar lets go the wings slap against the sides of the fuselage as opposed to the popular belief they clap overhead. I'm sure you knew that which is why you were asking.
There was a recent inflight breakup VH-WBZ. The ATSB report is available online.
As for the C210 reputation, why do you think it has such low Va and high cruise speed? It's the first thing you are briefed on when you fly it!
Wrong, wrong and wrong! This sort of stuff gets trotted out there and is given an airing every now and then. The fact of the matter is that the carry through structure is stronger than the struts bolted to the 206. I've been flying 210's for 30 years and have never been briefed by anyone on the wings going AWOL and I certainly havn't mentioned that to anyone whilst checking them out on the 210. Yes, a discussion on Va and the facts pertaining to that,but that's it.
Never been concerned about the wings coming off in an A36, PA32, SR22, likewise the 210.
The inflight breakup rate for the 210 as a percentage of the hours flown for the fleet isn't all that much different from the aircraft mentioned above.
When the wing spar lets go the wings slap against the sides of the fuselage as opposed to the popular belief they clap overhead. I'm sure you knew that which is why you were asking.
There was a recent inflight breakup VH-WBZ. The ATSB report is available online.
As for the C210 reputation, why do you think it has such low Va and high cruise speed? It's the first thing you are briefed on when you fly it!
Wrong, wrong and wrong! This sort of stuff gets trotted out there and is given an airing every now and then. The fact of the matter is that the carry through structure is stronger than the struts bolted to the 206. I've been flying 210's for 30 years and have never been briefed by anyone on the wings going AWOL and I certainly havn't mentioned that to anyone whilst checking them out on the 210. Yes, a discussion on Va and the facts pertaining to that,but that's it.
Never been concerned about the wings coming off in an A36, PA32, SR22, likewise the 210.
The inflight breakup rate for the 210 as a percentage of the hours flown for the fleet isn't all that much different from the aircraft mentioned above.
You typify the general aviation Pilot who doesn't understand the aeroplane they are flying. You probably have generic procedures and knowledge for the multiple aircraft types you generally fly, but don't have intimate knowledge of each. Yep, you might have been lucky flying the aeroplane for 30 years. One of your Pilots might not be, because you have neglected to mention what to do in the event of an airspeed excursion. Or mention what will happen rather quickly if they do. As rutan around said, 'education' is paramount.
At least guys like 'rutan around' understand it. I haven't flown a 210 for going on ten years, but It still sits firmly in my mind.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 2nd Apr 2013 at 05:33.
Emkaytee is a private general aviation aerodrome about 30 kays south.
Lot's of the weekend warrior types operate there and private VH Pilots.
It's a good strip and cheaper than parking your ship at DRW.
Lot's of the weekend warrior types operate there and private VH Pilots.
It's a good strip and cheaper than parking your ship at DRW.
MKT is just a small airfield just south of Darwin about 30nm. Some private and RAA stuff plus a maintenance facility there.
Hope this mob get found ok, not looking great though. Wx has been pretty poor this past week up here.
Hope this mob get found ok, not looking great though. Wx has been pretty poor this past week up here.
The search aircraft seemed to be doing circles around there.
DF.
Aircraft appears to be tracking back towards YPDN now.
Last edited by Desert Flower; 2nd Apr 2013 at 06:55. Reason: Add more info