C210 crash in Roma
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My experience of it, take off out of MB, MTOW, Cheiftain. Lots of visual reference.
Return out of WYY, empty, R09, black hole as soon as you lose the runway lights
when you are aware of it, you sit on the end of the runway (after transmitting on CTAF that you will be lined up for 10 seconds 
) brief yourself. In the end, a function of good training (which I had, thanks Pete)
It's a ****house feeling...
Return out of WYY, empty, R09, black hole as soon as you lose the runway lights
when you are aware of it, you sit on the end of the runway (after transmitting on CTAF that you will be lined up for 10 seconds ) brief yourself. In the end, a function of good training (which I had, thanks Pete)It's a ****house feeling...
Lake Eyre, that's correct. There was water in it at the time!
Investigation: 199000014 - Cessna 210-N, VH-XAG, Lake Eyre North, 53 km north-west Muloorina station SA, 29 July 1990
Smart arse pilot was showing off trying to show passengers how he could fly below sea level on a day with 8 octas cloud cover. Tried to blame an engine failure due to dirty fuel he'd picked up in Leigh Creek until it was proved otherwise. If anyone wants to know how I know this - PM me!
DF.
Flight Director
For those of us that fly aircraft with a flight director, I set it up so it displays 10 degrees up in the line up position then fly straight into it after rotate. A very useful tool if so equipped on those dark nights.
Desert Flower
You've got a flair for investigation and a level of intelligence that's far beyond average..
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
Last edited by bodybag; 27th Mar 2013 at 22:06.
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You've got a flair for investigation and a level of intelligence that's far beyond average..
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
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I'm not sure I know exactly what you are saying but I'll give you an example:
IcePilots series 2 from memory, it went something like this:
The C47 was taxiing for departure from a remote field when the wing clipped a truck, causing minor damage.
FAA report
The C47 was performing a beat-up of the work site after departure when the wing struck a tree causing damage to the wing.
It's the reverse in this situation however I hope that makes sense.
IcePilots series 2 from memory, it went something like this:
The C47 was taxiing for departure from a remote field when the wing clipped a truck, causing minor damage.
FAA report
The C47 was performing a beat-up of the work site after departure when the wing struck a tree causing damage to the wing.
It's the reverse in this situation however I hope that makes sense.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 28th Mar 2013 at 00:05.
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Flight Director
For those of us that fly aircraft with a flight director, I set it up so it displays 10 degrees up in the line up position then fly straight into it after rotate. A very useful tool if so equipped on those dark nights.
For those of us that fly aircraft with a flight director, I set it up so it displays 10 degrees up in the line up position then fly straight into it after rotate. A very useful tool if so equipped on those dark nights.
This maintains the 10 degree pitch up and I do all turns by rotating the heading bug. That way the autopilot is flying the aircraft and you are monitoring it in case something fails or goes awry.
I was very fortunate to do all my night training out of very "black hole" bush airstrips with a very experienced ex RFDS instructor, who deliberately induced all the bad effects that can happen at night. The somatogravic illusion is a very powerful event, and I found it required intense concentration to overcome. Every time you looked away from the scan, he would give you a clip under the ear with his torch!
Runway 36 at YROM, YTGM, YCMU and rwy 12 at YBCV on take-off are as black as you get on a moonless night.
Runway 36 at YROM, YTGM, YCMU and rwy 12 at YBCV on take-off are as black as you get on a moonless night.
If the accident happened between 05.30 am and just before 6.00 am, it was still dark enough that the pilot would not have had a clear visual ground reference off runway 36 until passing over the houses on Orange Hill.
Desert Flower
You've got a flair for investigation and a level of intelligence that's far beyond average..
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
You've got a flair for investigation and a level of intelligence that's far beyond average..
Perhaps you should consider a career with the ATSB.
however do you really think that a pilot is going to tell the authorities if he was actually doing that???
Anyway that's not what we were originally discussing here, so let's get this thread back on track please.
DF.
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Somatogravic illusion and Spatial disorientation.
2000 hrs night-ag tends to expose one to the dangers of both these perils more often than is considered comfortable. Typically operating ag aircraft with the max fuel and load possible every takeoff does not preclude the possibility of SI onset, indeed I found it increased it, when, for whatever reason, performance was improved, both on takeoff, and during spray operations. It's the unexpected that will get you everytime, and no amount of training will prevent it. Remember, both are cerebral perceptions, caused by physical stimuli, which without the benefit of our strongest sense (sight), can be overwhelming. On a dark night, while spraying, I once experienced SD, simply by reversing my turn faster than I had the previous 4 or 5 times, while turning over a black hole. I can tell you all that the noise approximating acceleration in my ears, would beat any rock concert I have ever attended. Terrifying! What to do? I froze on the stick, eyes inside to check ASI and Alt, (elect T&B are useless), then back outside to regain horizon. I knew I was climbing, I knew I had checked roll, I was at 400' agl before I had a positive horizon, and could continue to treat the field. With 8/8 overcast, a very dark night, we perhaps should have been in the stubby-hut, enjoying the fruits of the brewers toils, and the sight of rain in the worklights while clearing the strip for continued ops was a welcome sight indeed.
How do we combat these accidents? The only mitigation available IMHO, is education, and experience. It is clear, we cannot hope to survive all the experiences of others, (mortality is a bitch) so we must learn from the experience and unfortunate misadventures of others. So keep your own experiences coming. If we are reading them, you have survived, and have the best knowledge available for the betterment of your fellows.
RIP the folk in the C210, so very sad.
Heed their experience, could save your own life one day.
How do we combat these accidents? The only mitigation available IMHO, is education, and experience. It is clear, we cannot hope to survive all the experiences of others, (mortality is a bitch) so we must learn from the experience and unfortunate misadventures of others. So keep your own experiences coming. If we are reading them, you have survived, and have the best knowledge available for the betterment of your fellows.
RIP the folk in the C210, so very sad.
Heed their experience, could save your own life one day.
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Below MSL
Hey DF, is the lump still there where they left the Fuse of XAG? Jesus wept, everyone else would just fiddle with the alt setting thingy to trick the punters on that one. Twit!
Hey DF, is the lump still there where they left the Fuse of XAG? Jesus wept, everyone else would just fiddle with the alt setting thingy to trick the punters on that one. Twit!
DF.
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is the lump still there where they left the Fuse of XAG?
It was still there in 2009 and if its any consolation DF, your version of events was told to me by someone who has Lake Eyre as their backyard.
DF.
Might have been a case of runups on the go a 180 turn at the end of the runway, fist full of throttle and no real time for the AH to fully erect and stabilise, prior to the take-off roll.
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I completed my nvfr test december 2012 in black hole conditions in north queensland from sea level to 6500ft over the rang no towns no lights hardest thing i can imagine you can not trust your body one little bit, i vowed that night to never fly in those conditions ever....
Two weeks later early morning ready with family at xmas to get away we arived early with new nvfr to black condiotions it was the easiest and best decsion i ever made to wait for the sun to give us a basic horizon in all 10 mins and even then you are on the edge and using every skill you have i have flown quite a bit around qld outback and abuse it at your peril we were all taught its better to be down here than up there wishing you were down here.
Apologys for spelling posted from i phone in transit
Two weeks later early morning ready with family at xmas to get away we arived early with new nvfr to black condiotions it was the easiest and best decsion i ever made to wait for the sun to give us a basic horizon in all 10 mins and even then you are on the edge and using every skill you have i have flown quite a bit around qld outback and abuse it at your peril we were all taught its better to be down here than up there wishing you were down here.
Apologys for spelling posted from i phone in transit
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Hello everybody
Stop guessing about what happened to these unfortunates. Show a little respect.
If you want to start a thread on how to crash things, do it.
Later... Much later
If you want to start a thread on how to crash things, do it.
Later... Much later