Crash at Parafield
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Whatever happened, we appear to be falling out of the skies at an ever increasing rate lately. It would appear that some of the basic premises of aviation are being forgotten by those who should know better. 
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Never let your guard down, especially when under extra or unusual pressure or attention.
As a typically cautious pilot I am confident in my own stick skills but more importantly my ability to judge and manage my risks but I do not for one minute pretend that I am incapable of making mistakes or misjudgements. Did this chap just get lost in the moment?
I cannot help but think that the biggest factor here was performance pressure.
The CJFM mob are a fantastic team. They are not wreckless cowboys and they would have created a safety-oriented atmosphere.
I question whether it is accurate or worthwhile opining that a the "basics" are not being taught (they are).
I certainly hope that the ATSB commit to an in-depth investigation.
As a typically cautious pilot I am confident in my own stick skills but more importantly my ability to judge and manage my risks but I do not for one minute pretend that I am incapable of making mistakes or misjudgements. Did this chap just get lost in the moment?
I cannot help but think that the biggest factor here was performance pressure.
The CJFM mob are a fantastic team. They are not wreckless cowboys and they would have created a safety-oriented atmosphere.
I question whether it is accurate or worthwhile opining that a the "basics" are not being taught (they are).
I certainly hope that the ATSB commit to an in-depth investigation.
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FCB
Good points. I am not close enough to this to know for sure, but the risks must surely ramp up when you have a "more sporty" handling machine, an older slowing reflexes pilot, and one that is not doing a lot of flying and things that keep you current in the areas that matter.
I have no idea how many of these factors affected this pilot, but a spitfire is not a C152, and slow dirty and dragging in at low speed in gusty conditions may not be something practised often if at all. So if a bunch of factors line up, and a wing stalls and snaps out from under you, the reflexes and skills need to be nothing short of 100% there.
As someone who flies a lot, I recognise what I do is a lot of what could be called private/business line flying. Points A,B,C & D and maybe an instrument approach or two, but none of that is much use in an air display environment. A different set of recency is is required.
We will possibly never know for sure, but to any young PPL/CPL reading this, recency is not always about hours in the log book, its about type of aircraft and the type of flight flown.
Good points. I am not close enough to this to know for sure, but the risks must surely ramp up when you have a "more sporty" handling machine, an older slowing reflexes pilot, and one that is not doing a lot of flying and things that keep you current in the areas that matter.
I have no idea how many of these factors affected this pilot, but a spitfire is not a C152, and slow dirty and dragging in at low speed in gusty conditions may not be something practised often if at all. So if a bunch of factors line up, and a wing stalls and snaps out from under you, the reflexes and skills need to be nothing short of 100% there.
As someone who flies a lot, I recognise what I do is a lot of what could be called private/business line flying. Points A,B,C & D and maybe an instrument approach or two, but none of that is much use in an air display environment. A different set of recency is is required.
We will possibly never know for sure, but to any young PPL/CPL reading this, recency is not always about hours in the log book, its about type of aircraft and the type of flight flown.
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Does anyone here have much in the way of airshow flying experience?
I get the feeling these days that pilots in Australia have limited ability to practice for airshows to help them feel comfortable with what they need to do to perform live. We usually see fingers being pointed at them when practicing and the now synonymous iPhone video recording finding its' way onto youtube instilling fear in all. It has been said that this particular pilot did a practice fly-by at his home field and already we have forum members elsewhere suggesting that he did the wrong thing, should be reported blah blah. I get the feeling that this happened because he was doing something he wouldn't normally do.
Is this why we saw so many USA based performers at Avalon? Have we made it impossible for anyone here to be their best? I know there is provision to apply to CASA with 28 days (or whatever it is) notice for "Airshow practice" however how practical is this, how often is permission granted and has anyone ever actually had permission granted for this?
I get the feeling these days that pilots in Australia have limited ability to practice for airshows to help them feel comfortable with what they need to do to perform live. We usually see fingers being pointed at them when practicing and the now synonymous iPhone video recording finding its' way onto youtube instilling fear in all. It has been said that this particular pilot did a practice fly-by at his home field and already we have forum members elsewhere suggesting that he did the wrong thing, should be reported blah blah. I get the feeling that this happened because he was doing something he wouldn't normally do.
Is this why we saw so many USA based performers at Avalon? Have we made it impossible for anyone here to be their best? I know there is provision to apply to CASA with 28 days (or whatever it is) notice for "Airshow practice" however how practical is this, how often is permission granted and has anyone ever actually had permission granted for this?
If you had appropriate endorsements, eg low flying, low level aeros or whatever it was, there really shouldn't be anything to stop you finding an appropriate part of a training area and practicing your display with reference to some easily recognisable ground markers to simulate display line and crowd centre etc, I'd have thought.
Whata we up to now? Around the forums and the fields i has heard -
Explosion
Structual failure
Aerobatics
Lack of flying experience
Engine failure
Heart attack
All of the above
...Have i missed any ?
.......
.
Explosion
Structual failure
Aerobatics
Lack of flying experience
Engine failure
Heart attack
All of the above
...Have i missed any ?
.......
.
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If you had appropriate endorsements, eg low flying, low level aeros or whatever it was, there really shouldn't be anything to stop you finding an appropriate part of a training area and practicing your display with reference to some easily recognisable ground markers to simulate display line and crowd centre etc, I'd have thought.
Then there's the issue of you organise it, get permission, then some moron complains and sends his iPhone video to CASA. Sure you might be in the right, but nobody wants the stress of being counselled and being labelled guilty until proven innocent. The fun police have made it increasingly difficult.
I remember a AUF instructor from Mangalore years ago practicing in his Drifter for the Mangalore airshow. People would run into the flying school yelling out "some guy has crashed his ultralight" or "some guy it out there trying to kill himself in a Drifter." That was long before the days of video phones. One day the Police showed up after a number of complaints even though it was over the airfield.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 19th Mar 2013 at 00:06.
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RIP
For the record, he was not conducting a 'dirty pass', he was in fact cleared to land.
The conditions on the day were challenging, and the pilot had verbally expressed concern about flying before his display.
A number of pilots decided against flying their displays due to the conditions. The pilot who was to fly the T6 displayed a high level of professionalism in deciding the conditions were not suitable, equally a similar decision was made by the Tiger Moth pilots.
My view is that the pilot was mentally distracted by his worry about the upcoming landing in a strong cross wing and possibly wasn't paying attention to his airspeed during his base to final turn. The strong cross wind would have been blowing him across the runway centreline as he turned final and would have required him to turn tighter than normal to maintain centreline, particularly if he was not anticipating it. I suspect he suffered a tip stall during the turn and the rest is history.
Regardless of whether I am correct with respect to the cause, there is a good lesson in terms of not flying if you are not in the right mental space. He was not happy about the conditions, and should not have flown.
I landed not long after the accident, and the conditions were 'interesting' to say the least. I would have been pretty 'anxious' were I preparing to land a tail dragger.
Interestingly there was a similar accident in Gympie with the same aircraft type in October 2010.
It is very easy to take the attitude that a crashed pilot was 'just silly' and made silly mistakes. The reality is that he was an experienced and capable pilot. This can happen to any of us and re-empahises the need to set ourselves limits and not overstep those limits, no matter what the percieved pressure.
The conditions on the day were challenging, and the pilot had verbally expressed concern about flying before his display.
A number of pilots decided against flying their displays due to the conditions. The pilot who was to fly the T6 displayed a high level of professionalism in deciding the conditions were not suitable, equally a similar decision was made by the Tiger Moth pilots.
My view is that the pilot was mentally distracted by his worry about the upcoming landing in a strong cross wing and possibly wasn't paying attention to his airspeed during his base to final turn. The strong cross wind would have been blowing him across the runway centreline as he turned final and would have required him to turn tighter than normal to maintain centreline, particularly if he was not anticipating it. I suspect he suffered a tip stall during the turn and the rest is history.
Regardless of whether I am correct with respect to the cause, there is a good lesson in terms of not flying if you are not in the right mental space. He was not happy about the conditions, and should not have flown.
I landed not long after the accident, and the conditions were 'interesting' to say the least. I would have been pretty 'anxious' were I preparing to land a tail dragger.
Interestingly there was a similar accident in Gympie with the same aircraft type in October 2010.
It is very easy to take the attitude that a crashed pilot was 'just silly' and made silly mistakes. The reality is that he was an experienced and capable pilot. This can happen to any of us and re-empahises the need to set ourselves limits and not overstep those limits, no matter what the percieved pressure.
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My view is that the pilot was mentally distracted by his worry about the upcoming landing in a strong cross wing and possibly wasn't paying attention to his airspeed during his base to final turn. The strong cross wind would have been blowing him across the runway centreline as he turned final and would have required him to turn tighter than normal to maintain centreline, particularly if he was not anticipating it.
Even with the benefit of real time data, my turn onto final 21R (last minute change of runway) with constant bank, appeared to overshoot a little, however it was an illusion - I downloaded my Garmin portable GPS track which showed the roll out onto final had no overshoot at all.
There's been plenty written about illusory effects from turns in the circuit with crosswinds, probably because it's caught out others and will continue to do so.
Last edited by Ovation; 22nd Mar 2013 at 06:22.
He was an experienced pilot right?
He expressed his concern PRIOR to
he flight, right?
He then flew?
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ChrisJ800 asked:
Parafield Terminal Information ECHO
Runway 21
<snip>
Wind 160/20
XW 15
CAVOK
TEMP 20
QNH 1027
What was the wind and runway direction (21 was it) at the time of the accident?
Runway 21
<snip>
Wind 160/20
XW 15
CAVOK
TEMP 20
QNH 1027
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http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4548260...-051_final.pdf
What the ATSB found The ATSB found that while coordinating a landing clearance with air traffic control and flying a low level circuit with a close downwind and base in turbulent conditions, the pilot inadvertently allowed the airspeed to decay. In the subsequent turn (downwind) to adjust the circuit the aircraft aerodynamically stalled, descended steeply, and impacted the ground.
The aircraft was prone to aerodynamically stall with little or no aerodynamic precursors and it was not fitted with a stall warning device, increasing the risk of inadvertent stall.
Safety message Flying in an air display is different to normal operations and places additional demands on a pilot. Pilots who participate in air displays should consider the demands involved and to the extent possible ensure that the complete sequence, including landing, is planned and rehearsed.
Although amateur-built aircraft operated in the experimental category are not required to be fitted with a stall warning device (preferably with aural output), owner-pilots should consider the benefits of such devices as a last line of defence against stalling.
What the ATSB found The ATSB found that while coordinating a landing clearance with air traffic control and flying a low level circuit with a close downwind and base in turbulent conditions, the pilot inadvertently allowed the airspeed to decay. In the subsequent turn (downwind) to adjust the circuit the aircraft aerodynamically stalled, descended steeply, and impacted the ground.
The aircraft was prone to aerodynamically stall with little or no aerodynamic precursors and it was not fitted with a stall warning device, increasing the risk of inadvertent stall.
Safety message Flying in an air display is different to normal operations and places additional demands on a pilot. Pilots who participate in air displays should consider the demands involved and to the extent possible ensure that the complete sequence, including landing, is planned and rehearsed.
Although amateur-built aircraft operated in the experimental category are not required to be fitted with a stall warning device (preferably with aural output), owner-pilots should consider the benefits of such devices as a last line of defence against stalling.
Although amateur-built aircraft operated in the experimental category are not required to be fitted with a stall warning device (preferably with aural output), owner-pilots should consider the benefits of such devices as a last line of defence against stalling.
The sharp-eyed will see that "preferably with aural output" is wrongly placed in the sentence.
Low level turn downwind...disorientation...this is why we drum into the students not to turn back on EFATO. Very sad but if he was disorientated at low level than it's unlikely a stall warner would have suddenly snapped him out of it and given him time to recover?