CPL flight test...?
Thread Starter
CPL flight test...?
Hi all..
I'm intending to (re)start CPL training in the next couple of months, and want to do some preparation in terms of developing better flight planning skills. My understanding is that I'll have about an hour to get the plan done, submitted, and the aircraft readied on the day of the test...
How many legs should I expect? I imagine it wouldn't be a straight out/straight back type thing..
Any nasty little hard-to-find places that are popular with ATOs for diversions?
Any tips/tricks on how to get the plan done quickly?
Any other hints on other aspects of CPL flying in general?
TIA
I'm intending to (re)start CPL training in the next couple of months, and want to do some preparation in terms of developing better flight planning skills. My understanding is that I'll have about an hour to get the plan done, submitted, and the aircraft readied on the day of the test...
How many legs should I expect? I imagine it wouldn't be a straight out/straight back type thing..
Any nasty little hard-to-find places that are popular with ATOs for diversions?
Any tips/tricks on how to get the plan done quickly?
Any other hints on other aspects of CPL flying in general?
TIA
Its going to differ based on where you fly and who you fly with.
From memory when I did mine.
About an hour doing KDR and the verbal test. Expect a heap on privileges and limitations, types of operations, Flight and Duty times, there will be scenarios eg can you do X legally?
Yes, you have 1 hour from getting your flight plan to be in the aircraft engine turning. At least 1 of your landing points will require use of declared density charts, don't be surprised if the charts won't allow you to depart if you did land, chances are you'll do your go around here.
Mine was planned over 5 legs. Expect a diversion, low level (not about 1000ft AGL from memory for mine). You will be asked to identify a few features along the route. You may be able to use the GPS once your told to head home. Do not forget to keep your fuel log and checking your maps.
Diversion, please make sure you redo your fuel log as soon as possible, I had a mate turn and track to their diversion and failed because they would not have had legal reserves which he would have know had he done the log.
You will get a go around from short final, mine was followed by an engine failure at low level.
Be confident. Treat your testing officer as a passenger, watch them like a hawk around the plane on the ground, a favourite of my ATO was to walk into the prop arc. Give him a full pax brief. Do not assume that because he is an ATO you can skip things, more info is better than not enough.
The biggest thing I can suggest though, is to remember that the test is not over UNTIL you have your log book stamped and are walking out of the school. Just because the ATO might start talking about what's going to happen once you land, and how he will go inside and start filling the paper work out while you are tying down the plane, or when he says that's good enough lets head for home, use the GPS if you want, you are still under test conditions and you will fail if you get lazy or lax.
The plane I flew, one of the GPS way points had been changed to be about 40nm over water. I was told that I could use the GPS to head for home, but i needed to keep to the flight plan so we made the 3 hour time limit. I made sure that I checked the GPS to my flight plan and that's how I picked up the error in the database (which I now know is intentional) and chose to ignore the GPS. This I have been told is a common thing for that ATO to see if you still are focused on flying to the standard and he has failed people who blindly assumed the GPS was correct.
From memory when I did mine.
About an hour doing KDR and the verbal test. Expect a heap on privileges and limitations, types of operations, Flight and Duty times, there will be scenarios eg can you do X legally?
Yes, you have 1 hour from getting your flight plan to be in the aircraft engine turning. At least 1 of your landing points will require use of declared density charts, don't be surprised if the charts won't allow you to depart if you did land, chances are you'll do your go around here.
Mine was planned over 5 legs. Expect a diversion, low level (not about 1000ft AGL from memory for mine). You will be asked to identify a few features along the route. You may be able to use the GPS once your told to head home. Do not forget to keep your fuel log and checking your maps.
Diversion, please make sure you redo your fuel log as soon as possible, I had a mate turn and track to their diversion and failed because they would not have had legal reserves which he would have know had he done the log.
You will get a go around from short final, mine was followed by an engine failure at low level.
Be confident. Treat your testing officer as a passenger, watch them like a hawk around the plane on the ground, a favourite of my ATO was to walk into the prop arc. Give him a full pax brief. Do not assume that because he is an ATO you can skip things, more info is better than not enough.
The biggest thing I can suggest though, is to remember that the test is not over UNTIL you have your log book stamped and are walking out of the school. Just because the ATO might start talking about what's going to happen once you land, and how he will go inside and start filling the paper work out while you are tying down the plane, or when he says that's good enough lets head for home, use the GPS if you want, you are still under test conditions and you will fail if you get lazy or lax.
The plane I flew, one of the GPS way points had been changed to be about 40nm over water. I was told that I could use the GPS to head for home, but i needed to keep to the flight plan so we made the 3 hour time limit. I made sure that I checked the GPS to my flight plan and that's how I picked up the error in the database (which I now know is intentional) and chose to ignore the GPS. This I have been told is a common thing for that ATO to see if you still are focused on flying to the standard and he has failed people who blindly assumed the GPS was correct.
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Stikman,
Get the aircraft ready the day before if possible, fill it up with fuel and set everything up the way you like it.
Don't worry too much about your plan. Just plan the first 2 legs accurately, after that you be will hit with diversions anyway and the plan goes out the window. Hold height and heading and don't break any rules and you will find it's pretty straight forward and no different to your PPL test.
Each ATO will have their own pet hates and like things done differently so do some research and ask around the school.
Get the aircraft ready the day before if possible, fill it up with fuel and set everything up the way you like it.
Don't worry too much about your plan. Just plan the first 2 legs accurately, after that you be will hit with diversions anyway and the plan goes out the window. Hold height and heading and don't break any rules and you will find it's pretty straight forward and no different to your PPL test.
Each ATO will have their own pet hates and like things done differently so do some research and ask around the school.
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The best advice I can give is treat the flight as a commercial operation, your passenger will tell you where they want to go. Except in this case the pax will ask you to do things to satisfy the test, like simulated IFR flying etc. In ALL other cases treat him or her as pax. Preflight briefing, pre takeoff, in event of simulated or real emergency, pre landing and disembarking at the end. (although by that stage he may tell you to skip the pax treatment) Also, take along a drink and snack for the pax/ATO.
I broke the VFR distance rule from cloud and ground, forgot my protractor (pre GPS days), was temporarily (2 or 3 minutes after he asked for a fix) unable to fix my position when at low level without navaids, had an unplanned by my testing officer diversion and refuel req'd (due to power outage closing YBCG zone).
But in the end I got the pax to the destination and alternate in flight change of mind destination, handled the unplanned diversion and subsequent wait and refuel, but in all I conducted a safe flight. "The pax got what they wanted, the boss made money and the aeroplane was usable again". (similar to what my CFI said as he signed my test forms)
I broke the VFR distance rule from cloud and ground, forgot my protractor (pre GPS days), was temporarily (2 or 3 minutes after he asked for a fix) unable to fix my position when at low level without navaids, had an unplanned by my testing officer diversion and refuel req'd (due to power outage closing YBCG zone).
But in the end I got the pax to the destination and alternate in flight change of mind destination, handled the unplanned diversion and subsequent wait and refuel, but in all I conducted a safe flight. "The pax got what they wanted, the boss made money and the aeroplane was usable again". (similar to what my CFI said as he signed my test forms)
Last edited by Lancair70; 5th Feb 2013 at 07:02.
The Day VFR Syllabus, the ATOM and the flight test form will make it clear what the ATO expects on test day.
ATOs do a lot more standardisation that in the past, it shouldn't make any difference who does it if you are to the standard.
You will need to have the competencies signed off so whoever does that should make sure you are well prepared first.
ATOs do a lot more standardisation that in the past, it shouldn't make any difference who does it if you are to the standard.
You will need to have the competencies signed off so whoever does that should make sure you are well prepared first.
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Don't forget to cancel your SAR!
While building your command time to out to places you're unfamiliar with and pick small obscure places to find and go find them, that's the best way to get comfortable with what will be expected of you.
Constant heading and your watch are your friends. Throw in a GS and keep on top of your position fixes and you will find it's hard to get lost.
Put half way markers on your tracks, my ATO loved to see that and it helps you greatly. Correct for drift as soon as you can see it's not as forecast and tell them what you're doing.
When I did my CPL flight test in MB we went out west and I have to find a railway siding which was marked as a town on the WAC and we had forecast winds vary through about 270 degrees, which tends to happen around Melbourne, so I just kept on top of fixing up my tracks while I was flying and ended up exactly where I was meant to be when I was meant to be there.
In MB you'll more than likely fly in to Essendon and through one of the VFR routes, so get familiar with various approach points. Nothing finishes a flight test quicker than busting airspace.
Most of all though, enjoy it!
While building your command time to out to places you're unfamiliar with and pick small obscure places to find and go find them, that's the best way to get comfortable with what will be expected of you.
Constant heading and your watch are your friends. Throw in a GS and keep on top of your position fixes and you will find it's hard to get lost.
Put half way markers on your tracks, my ATO loved to see that and it helps you greatly. Correct for drift as soon as you can see it's not as forecast and tell them what you're doing.
When I did my CPL flight test in MB we went out west and I have to find a railway siding which was marked as a town on the WAC and we had forecast winds vary through about 270 degrees, which tends to happen around Melbourne, so I just kept on top of fixing up my tracks while I was flying and ended up exactly where I was meant to be when I was meant to be there.
In MB you'll more than likely fly in to Essendon and through one of the VFR routes, so get familiar with various approach points. Nothing finishes a flight test quicker than busting airspace.
Most of all though, enjoy it!
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Likely to go west or north west of Melbourne. Big tip is some areas you can't maintain legal height AGL and avoid the CTA steps on the way back in. Study the VTC. Have fun!
The plane I flew, one of the GPS way points had been changed to be about 40nm over water. I was told that I could use the GPS to head for home, but i needed to keep to the flight plan so we made the 3 hour time limit. I made sure that I checked the GPS to my flight plan and that's how I picked up the error in the database (which I now know is intentional) and chose to ignore the GPS.
Please name and shame. They need their head kicked.
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do not trust your GPS over pencil on paper
That doesn't mean GPS is infallible, but cross referencing with other info (Nav log, ground based radio aids) should be part of any nav.
And unless they are user entered waypoints, modern, internal database TSO'd GPS can't have the waypoint data changed. Compnaies like Garmin invest millions in the software that runs it and the accuracy of the databases, not mention the untold dollars of actually sending several hunks of metal into space.
I am the laziest of the lazy, and love nothing better than watching the track miles to run tick slowly down while relaxing, but that doesn't mean I don't know where I am, and am without some sort of independant nav backup.
As I said, no system is infallible, but a bit of common sense would see most of us arrive on time, in the place we want, on purpose!
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Absolutely agree with all the above, but I'm surprised not one of you mentioned weight and balance. I got bombarded in my cpl flight test. Practice as many scenarios as possible, max fuel, max payload, minimum fuel for the flight. Just do them all! Best of luck. T&G
T&G
