My folks vs Me - need your advice!
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My folks vs Me - need your advice!
Hi all,
I am not sure if this has come up on the forums recently but I havent been able to draw from previous threads on advice for young people like me.
I am in a bit of a conflict with my parents with regards to my future goals and dreams of becoming a pilot. This has been dragged on for a while within my household but I stood my ground (not like a stubborn kid
) and kept my parents involved by telling them about the pathways and other things I used to research about becoming a pilot. I recently graduated as an aeronutical engineer with honours and my parents insist on me getting an engineering job or study further through masters in business etc.
The training and the income through GA or the huge investment for cadetships is looked upon as something not worth doing by my parents, after having done an engineering degree with a clear path set out (I do not wish to offend anyone, these are just the opinions of my parents). Which kind of means that I wont be getting a single dollar towards training up to becoming a pilot from my parents. I have always loved aircraft and it was the reason why I pursued aero engineering, but I had a quick change of focus in first year after excursions to flight schools through interest groups at uni. I have since then wanted to become a pilot and want to pursue it in the best way I can. After doing an engineering internship last year, I am even more confident that I want to depart from the engineering career and become a pilot!
I have made my mind up of taking a year off and trying for all the cadetships on offer. If I get picked up anywhere, that will be absolutely amazing, but if not Ill have to get an engineering job and move on after this year has passed. I understand there are people with a negative outlook on cadetships but please understand I have no way of undergoing training and then looking for a job in GA with the circumstances I am in at the moment. This year is the biggest window of opportunity for me to try and break through somehow. The only other option is going ahead with an engineering job and continously working/saving up towards becoming a pilot.
I would like to hear your thoughts on some of my questions -
1. What have been some of the finance options used by people who have had to pay upfront fees for training? Are there student loans or personal loans available to deal with the upfront costs of certain cadetships?
2. Is it possible to become an airline pilot after working in other industries for a while? When and how did people make the switch and is it only possible/realistic upto a certain age?
3. General thoughts on the two scenarios that I will most probably face in the near future:
Cadet airline pilot - A debt in excess of $100k (for some cadetships) with additional debt from undergrad degree. Food and board during the cadetship training etc. Plus any other debts and expenses from a car or a house mortgage etc. in the next few years. Seems like I might be spending a lot before I earn a modest amount. Even then I'd have repayments for the company loan, hecs debt and a seperate debt to cover upfront costs. But having a dream realised and a foot in the door and getting a start in the Australian airline industry!
Aero/Mech Engineer - No immediate debt except for the undergrad degree and car/house etc. Saving up for upfront costs for cadetships/other ways of becoming a pilot. No idea if or when Ill have enough funds/stability to switch careers?
Which one seems more plausible and sensible?
I would really appreciate some words of advice from anyone who has been through a similar situation or has made the switch into the airlines (and had planned to do so for a while). If you just want to share your opinion please please go ahead! I will take every bit of advice/opnion if I have to re evaluate the whole plan.
I am not sure if this has come up on the forums recently but I havent been able to draw from previous threads on advice for young people like me.
I am in a bit of a conflict with my parents with regards to my future goals and dreams of becoming a pilot. This has been dragged on for a while within my household but I stood my ground (not like a stubborn kid
) and kept my parents involved by telling them about the pathways and other things I used to research about becoming a pilot. I recently graduated as an aeronutical engineer with honours and my parents insist on me getting an engineering job or study further through masters in business etc.The training and the income through GA or the huge investment for cadetships is looked upon as something not worth doing by my parents, after having done an engineering degree with a clear path set out (I do not wish to offend anyone, these are just the opinions of my parents). Which kind of means that I wont be getting a single dollar towards training up to becoming a pilot from my parents. I have always loved aircraft and it was the reason why I pursued aero engineering, but I had a quick change of focus in first year after excursions to flight schools through interest groups at uni. I have since then wanted to become a pilot and want to pursue it in the best way I can. After doing an engineering internship last year, I am even more confident that I want to depart from the engineering career and become a pilot!
I have made my mind up of taking a year off and trying for all the cadetships on offer. If I get picked up anywhere, that will be absolutely amazing, but if not Ill have to get an engineering job and move on after this year has passed. I understand there are people with a negative outlook on cadetships but please understand I have no way of undergoing training and then looking for a job in GA with the circumstances I am in at the moment. This year is the biggest window of opportunity for me to try and break through somehow. The only other option is going ahead with an engineering job and continously working/saving up towards becoming a pilot.
I would like to hear your thoughts on some of my questions -
1. What have been some of the finance options used by people who have had to pay upfront fees for training? Are there student loans or personal loans available to deal with the upfront costs of certain cadetships?
2. Is it possible to become an airline pilot after working in other industries for a while? When and how did people make the switch and is it only possible/realistic upto a certain age?
3. General thoughts on the two scenarios that I will most probably face in the near future:
Cadet airline pilot - A debt in excess of $100k (for some cadetships) with additional debt from undergrad degree. Food and board during the cadetship training etc. Plus any other debts and expenses from a car or a house mortgage etc. in the next few years. Seems like I might be spending a lot before I earn a modest amount. Even then I'd have repayments for the company loan, hecs debt and a seperate debt to cover upfront costs. But having a dream realised and a foot in the door and getting a start in the Australian airline industry!
Aero/Mech Engineer - No immediate debt except for the undergrad degree and car/house etc. Saving up for upfront costs for cadetships/other ways of becoming a pilot. No idea if or when Ill have enough funds/stability to switch careers?
Which one seems more plausible and sensible?
I would really appreciate some words of advice from anyone who has been through a similar situation or has made the switch into the airlines (and had planned to do so for a while). If you just want to share your opinion please please go ahead! I will take every bit of advice/opnion if I have to re evaluate the whole plan.
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As far as I know, there aren't many cadetships where you don't have to pay for the training, and that means a SECURED loan (which would mean your parents signing for the debt), which I get from your post won't be happening.
The only cadetships I have heard of where you don't pay are in countries that you must be a citizen of (and in some a member of a certain minority or previously disadvantaged minority), such as Holland, Kenya, South Africa, Namibia.
Since the odds of actually getting a career in flying are slim at best, I would suggest you get a nice job doing what you're trained in and fly on the weekends. Flying will always be more fun when you don't "have to" fly.
The only cadetships I have heard of where you don't pay are in countries that you must be a citizen of (and in some a member of a certain minority or previously disadvantaged minority), such as Holland, Kenya, South Africa, Namibia.
Since the odds of actually getting a career in flying are slim at best, I would suggest you get a nice job doing what you're trained in and fly on the weekends. Flying will always be more fun when you don't "have to" fly.
A lot of people here (myself included) have started their career after working another job and saving up...
It isn't a bad thing to have a trade behind you, just in case a career as a pilot doesn't work out for any reason.
It isn't a bad thing to have a trade behind you, just in case a career as a pilot doesn't work out for any reason.
Have to agree with the last couple of posters,(having worked in another industry to get into aviation thru the back door) work at yr acquired skill & gain experience & money to make a better informed decision about becoming a plane driver over time.
In time you may actually change yr mind (fly for fun instead) & be grateful for the slight obstacle you face now. It's not the industry is once was being very unstable these days so use what you have which are two things, time(due being young) & yr current abilities, many would kill to be in yr position. & keep yr parents out of the equation to as they obviously don't have yr passion so don't get tainted by them.
Best of luck:-)
Wmk2
In time you may actually change yr mind (fly for fun instead) & be grateful for the slight obstacle you face now. It's not the industry is once was being very unstable these days so use what you have which are two things, time(due being young) & yr current abilities, many would kill to be in yr position. & keep yr parents out of the equation to as they obviously don't have yr passion so don't get tainted by them.
Best of luck:-)
Wmk2
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get an engineering job, and put every spare penny into training, once you get to CPL level, then look at instructing or heading out bush, might get a job both flying and in engineering at the same company.
Join the Airforce. In any capacity.
The aviation industry in Australia is truly stuffed, and not worth getting involved in.
Trust me I know. I've been there for 38 years!
The aviation industry in Australia is truly stuffed, and not worth getting involved in.
Trust me I know. I've been there for 38 years!
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Mate, I studied and graduated as an Aero Engineer (RMIT) back in the late 80's early 90's. I am now a Captain with Emirates.
The road has been long, arduous and filled with many pivotal moments as I watched others drop out, deviate or simply give up with their flying.
The personal triumphs, and setbacks are too numerous to put down at this moment; - you will be no different.
I truly have a heap I could talk to you about but I'm off to the simulator in a couple of hours and no time to compose all my thoughts into a coherent discussion at this very moment.
I will attempt to pm you in the next day or two.
May I suggest you pm me your skype name and we can chat directly.
Regards
The road has been long, arduous and filled with many pivotal moments as I watched others drop out, deviate or simply give up with their flying.
The personal triumphs, and setbacks are too numerous to put down at this moment; - you will be no different.
I truly have a heap I could talk to you about but I'm off to the simulator in a couple of hours and no time to compose all my thoughts into a coherent discussion at this very moment.
I will attempt to pm you in the next day or two.
May I suggest you pm me your skype name and we can chat directly.
Regards
I suggest you try for the RAAF pilot course. The training is free and of a high standard. Of course you get paid while under training. Your current qualifications might get you ahead of the mob also applying to get in the RAAF
If you can't or don't make it on to a RAAF pilot course, work at the mines for a few years. The world looks different and you have more options when you have a hundred grand or more in the bank.
At your age, time is on your side. Consolidate your existing qualifications by working in a relevant field while you use some of that income to learn to fly.
You may find that flying is a bit of a disappointment, or you may develop such a passion that you will eventually drop your engineering work to go bush and start the long road working your way up. You may acquire the assets to underpin the $100,000 you need for a cadetship.
Now, that's a subject all of its own and you can research the pros and cons of that particular path elsewhere in these forums.
I was fortunate to get a flying scholarship at age 18, otherwise I could never have afforded to learn to fly so early. But the downside was I never qualified to do anything else and at times have been forced to take crap jobs with crap operators in crap locations to recover from companies going broke under me.
In such a volatile industry as this, having dual and separate skills is an asset.
You may find that flying is a bit of a disappointment, or you may develop such a passion that you will eventually drop your engineering work to go bush and start the long road working your way up. You may acquire the assets to underpin the $100,000 you need for a cadetship.
Now, that's a subject all of its own and you can research the pros and cons of that particular path elsewhere in these forums.
I was fortunate to get a flying scholarship at age 18, otherwise I could never have afforded to learn to fly so early. But the downside was I never qualified to do anything else and at times have been forced to take crap jobs with crap operators in crap locations to recover from companies going broke under me.
In such a volatile industry as this, having dual and separate skills is an asset.
As an engineer who opted for an engineering career rather than flying, I think you could go down either route for some time and then switch. Others are better qualified to comment, but I think the more you move away from the " normal" pilot recruitment path the harder it is to revert back that will involve more steps with less well regarded operations. For me the decision was about work style / employer culture. I opted to be in a more flexible, autonomous, smaller, less structured work environment.
Tough decisions that require a lot of introspection. Good luck. You should also feel pleased that you wrote an unusually good post that showed intellect and insight, which is why you have had so many high quality responses.
Tough decisions that require a lot of introspection. Good luck. You should also feel pleased that you wrote an unusually good post that showed intellect and insight, which is why you have had so many high quality responses.
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Listen to your folks, when you get older you will realise they were probably right.
My suggestion is to make your fortune in the industry which provides the best income, then fly for fun!
My suggestion is to make your fortune in the industry which provides the best income, then fly for fun!
When I announced my intention of learning to fly for a career, my parents told me that it would lead to a life of financial insecurity, alcohol misuse, and moral decay.
I have to say, they were right
Seriously, I worked in other careers before learning to fly. In flying, as in life, I believe it is essential to have a Plan B.
I have to say, they were right
Seriously, I worked in other careers before learning to fly. In flying, as in life, I believe it is essential to have a Plan B.
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You've got a good backup plan. If your dream is to fly, go make it happen. Take heed of what experienced pilots on these forums mention and make sure you have a realistic understanding of what the industry might bring. At the end of the day, if you wakeup every morning wanting to fly, you should go and make that happen.
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If I was you I'd be applying for the RAAF as a pilot, aiming for fast jets and setting my sights on test pilot flying as a long term career given my aeronautical engineering qualifications, but that's just me!
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Thank you so much for all the responses, I am glad I decided to post this issue on here!
Due to your posts I am now aware of a few things that need to be given more thought like guarantors for loans, the RAAF, the assets I could accumulate through an engineering job (to put against a loan) and the advantage of having some experience in engineering etc.
tbh I can now see the benefit in starting out as an engineer and working towards a cpl when time and money allow for it to happen. I will most probably try to make the switch before I am 30 ifI go down this path.I am a tad worried that a fulltime engineering career would suck the motivation out of me, but as has been said by a few this might even be for my own good?
I had looked at entry pathways into the RAAF a few years ago but was deterred from taking it up because of the return of service period. I am sure that decision was pretty baseless (I was young and a bit silly
) and as of now I am not worried by bonds or anything like that, so I will certainly think about this!
Cheers all! I would be more than happy to recieve more advice/opinions through pm or posts
p.s - Rotaiva please check your pm thanks
Due to your posts I am now aware of a few things that need to be given more thought like guarantors for loans, the RAAF, the assets I could accumulate through an engineering job (to put against a loan) and the advantage of having some experience in engineering etc.
tbh I can now see the benefit in starting out as an engineer and working towards a cpl when time and money allow for it to happen. I will most probably try to make the switch before I am 30 ifI go down this path.I am a tad worried that a fulltime engineering career would suck the motivation out of me, but as has been said by a few this might even be for my own good?
I had looked at entry pathways into the RAAF a few years ago but was deterred from taking it up because of the return of service period. I am sure that decision was pretty baseless (I was young and a bit silly
) and as of now I am not worried by bonds or anything like that, so I will certainly think about this!Cheers all! I would be more than happy to recieve more advice/opinions through pm or posts
p.s - Rotaiva please check your pm thanks
.............retirement