Where should Avalon Airshow go?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds more like a junket.
I've seen how hard the Airshows people work, especially those who look after the exhibition space, the static and hot display areas, and the media people.
The fact is Avalon (or wherever you hold it in Australia) has little appeal to foreign air forces or manufacturers unless it coincides with major exercises/operations in our region, or there are active commercial/military sales campaigns underway. It's the tyranny of distance and of having a small and widespread population base...
There is also the issue of companies increasingly being held to account by their shareholders and home governments on what they spend on marketing - witness major US companies pulling out of big overseas airshows this year (e.g. Northrop Grumman & Paris). It's just not fashionable to display your wares that can kill people and break their stuff to the general public anymore...
Last edited by FoxtrotAlpha18; 10th Jan 2013 at 01:18.
To be honest, the location for me isn't an issue. I will travel to the ends of the earth for a good airshow....and that is what it is about. What is coming to Avalon this year? we are now 6 weeks out and no major announcements.
In contrast I went to the Temora airshow 18 months ago. They announced the lineup months in advance. It wasn't a big airshow by any means but many will agree it was the best Warbird airshow this country has seen since the early Scone, Mangalore and Albatross airshows, and without a doubt I am going again this year.
You want to make Avalon good, then get some good stuff to attend and perform. Problem solved. No point having F-22's parked on the tarmac. People want to see them perform....thats what an airshow is about.
My ideas;
B-52 - Multiple low passes down the runway, and not 3 miles west. don;t tell me they can't do it...they did it at the Pearce open day last year and was quite impressive.
B-2 - Get them in the air
B-1 - Get it out here and flying
F-15 - previous displays were awesome. It should be booked every year as standard
F-16 - Ditto
F-22 - Get one out here with a display pilot
Tornado - Get one out here on a RAF detachment
Typhoon - Ditto
RAF Herc - Get one out to support Tornado and bring other aircraft (ie Lynx)
Su-30 - Get the indo's involved with a display
Mig-29 - get the indo's involved with a display
F-5 - Ask Singapore to send some
A380 - get QANTAS to bring one and do a display (anyone remember the Q744 display at richmond in the early 90's?)
An124 - repeat display from 91 richmond airshow
Invite a big warbirds contingent and get big formations of warbirds going, you should be able to get at least;
3-4 mustangs
5-10 Trojans
2 Spitfires
Souther Knights would be good.
HARS fleet
Temora fleet.
Mix it up a bit. Start flying at 9 and go thru till 5. have some mustangs in formation with an f-15 or similar. Make it exciting!!!!!
Put the display line on the centreline of the runway and not 1/2 mile away, yes maybe its time CASA got thier head out of their bum and eased restrictions on airshows.
I don;t want to travel all the way to avalon to see aircraft parked on the ground and multiple back to back performances by small unlimted class aircraft. yes Matt Hall is awesome, but not similar performances all day. People are making comparisons to overseas shows and thats good, but the key difference isn;t the crowd....its the airshow performers.
Rant over. I just keep remembering the airshows of the late eighties and early nineties and they were awesome. Even Avalon right up until about 97 was really good.
In contrast I went to the Temora airshow 18 months ago. They announced the lineup months in advance. It wasn't a big airshow by any means but many will agree it was the best Warbird airshow this country has seen since the early Scone, Mangalore and Albatross airshows, and without a doubt I am going again this year.
You want to make Avalon good, then get some good stuff to attend and perform. Problem solved. No point having F-22's parked on the tarmac. People want to see them perform....thats what an airshow is about.
My ideas;
B-52 - Multiple low passes down the runway, and not 3 miles west. don;t tell me they can't do it...they did it at the Pearce open day last year and was quite impressive.
B-2 - Get them in the air
B-1 - Get it out here and flying
F-15 - previous displays were awesome. It should be booked every year as standard
F-16 - Ditto
F-22 - Get one out here with a display pilot
Tornado - Get one out here on a RAF detachment
Typhoon - Ditto
RAF Herc - Get one out to support Tornado and bring other aircraft (ie Lynx)
Su-30 - Get the indo's involved with a display
Mig-29 - get the indo's involved with a display
F-5 - Ask Singapore to send some
A380 - get QANTAS to bring one and do a display (anyone remember the Q744 display at richmond in the early 90's?)
An124 - repeat display from 91 richmond airshow
Invite a big warbirds contingent and get big formations of warbirds going, you should be able to get at least;
3-4 mustangs
5-10 Trojans
2 Spitfires
Souther Knights would be good.
HARS fleet
Temora fleet.
Mix it up a bit. Start flying at 9 and go thru till 5. have some mustangs in formation with an f-15 or similar. Make it exciting!!!!!
Put the display line on the centreline of the runway and not 1/2 mile away, yes maybe its time CASA got thier head out of their bum and eased restrictions on airshows.
I don;t want to travel all the way to avalon to see aircraft parked on the ground and multiple back to back performances by small unlimted class aircraft. yes Matt Hall is awesome, but not similar performances all day. People are making comparisons to overseas shows and thats good, but the key difference isn;t the crowd....its the airshow performers.
Rant over. I just keep remembering the airshows of the late eighties and early nineties and they were awesome. Even Avalon right up until about 97 was really good.
Last edited by alphacentauri; 10th Jan 2013 at 01:30.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've seen how hard the Airshows people work, especially those who look after the exhibition space, the static and hot display areas, and the media people.
Alpha C - The B1 has been at the last two and flying.
An124 was 1988 as with the QF 747.
Good ideas. Throw in the Malaysians as well - The Smokey Bandits!
Last edited by Critical Reynolds No; 10th Jan 2013 at 01:47.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regardless of how you feel about the airshow, that is a stupid comment with no basis of fact whatsoever.
To get off Avalon bashing and back to the original question
Avalon air show uses a substantial area of hard stand and a huge area for all the marquees and stuff, and a runway not occupied by constant RPT traffic, preferable somewhere near a major city for accommodation.
I do not know of another domestic airport that would fill the bill, any one with the runway and the hardstand area has significant RPT Traffic.
A RAAF base might do it if the RAAF comes onside and can get its head around allowing access to the hordes who will attend. Richmond, Newcastle or Nowra come to mind. (I am not familiar with Sale, Edinburgh or Amberley).
PS - the A380 was at Avalon in 2009
Apparently 2015 might be the last at Avalon and was wondering where should it be held in the future? What would be a suitable alternative in Australia that would please both trade & punter attendees?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
I do not know of another domestic airport that would fill the bill, any one with the runway and the hardstand area has significant RPT Traffic.
A RAAF base might do it if the RAAF comes onside and can get its head around allowing access to the hordes who will attend. Richmond, Newcastle or Nowra come to mind. (I am not familiar with Sale, Edinburgh or Amberley).
PS - the A380 was at Avalon in 2009
Last edited by bentleg; 10th Jan 2013 at 02:09.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about a set up like the Townsville ADF show? Show off airport above the beach one day and then an open day the next day to wonder through the parked aircraft?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK nitpicker, my criticisms are probably more aimed at anything done in Australia. Getting raped for a bottle of water, paying what you'd pay for a dozen oysters for a bucket of chips. Paying more for your parking than you would for an entrance ticket.
I do have contact with people who've had dealings with organisers who behave like beaurocrats.
The show is a bore, too long between the acts, plus what I've outlined above. Regardless of whether the organisers are volunteers or not, boring is boring.
I do have contact with people who've had dealings with organisers who behave like beaurocrats.
The show is a bore, too long between the acts, plus what I've outlined above. Regardless of whether the organisers are volunteers or not, boring is boring.
1/ Just regarding the F22 not flying last show. At that time the only display Pilot for the 22 was on holidays and not able to make it, so blame the USAF and not Airshows down under for the stuff up.
This year it will fly
2/ if you recall there was a national Emergency in Christchurch NZ with a rather large Earthquake just before or during the show, therefore the NZAF B757's and our own C17's and C130J's taken out of the show to assist our NZ cousins. So don't blame Airshows down under for the Earthquake!!
Operational things happen and they cannot control them all.
Not to mention numerous Jetstar arrivals and Un-planned QF maintenance movements that need to be accommodated each day.
The boys and girls in ops do a good job
This year it will fly
2/ if you recall there was a national Emergency in Christchurch NZ with a rather large Earthquake just before or during the show, therefore the NZAF B757's and our own C17's and C130J's taken out of the show to assist our NZ cousins. So don't blame Airshows down under for the Earthquake!!
Operational things happen and they cannot control them all.
Not to mention numerous Jetstar arrivals and Un-planned QF maintenance movements that need to be accommodated each day.
The boys and girls in ops do a good job
Last edited by nitpicker330; 10th Jan 2013 at 05:31.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you want t,o attract more enthusiasts, then you have to give the enthusiasts a reason to attend. Sure A380 attended in 2009, but did they give an aircraft handling display? Avalon get a healthy amount of aircraft in attendance, but a lot if them don't fly or if they do the display is a little underwhelming.
Just my opinion, but it sounds like a lot of av nerds on here agree.
As for location. Better chance of overseas military attending if its at a military location. Richmond/Nowra have always been good airshow venues.
Posted from Pprune.org App for Android
Just my opinion, but it sounds like a lot of av nerds on here agree.
As for location. Better chance of overseas military attending if its at a military location. Richmond/Nowra have always been good airshow venues.
Posted from Pprune.org App for Android
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cairns, Queensland
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Richmond in 88 was the best airshow I have been to in OZ. Awesome displays by the AN124, Tornado, the mirage up against the hornet, and plenty of other airforce participation. Sadly a lot of cutting back on expenses, so it's harder to get them out here. Plenty of good camping areas not too far away.
Plus it is fairly central population wise so they would get the attendance they need.
Plus it is fairly central population wise so they would get the attendance they need.
Yeah, Richmond 88 weren't bad.
Hoover at YBAF were a nice little show with a surprise from Hemples mig. Probably the last 'show' i went to.
Dunno why we need air shows, just have our flyins. Cheaper and more enjoyment fer the pilot..
Let the military 'buyers' go to the UK/France shows.
Hoover at YBAF were a nice little show with a surprise from Hemples mig. Probably the last 'show' i went to.
Dunno why we need air shows, just have our flyins. Cheaper and more enjoyment fer the pilot..
Let the military 'buyers' go to the UK/France shows.
Avalon airshow had its origins in a airshow that was sponsored/supported by the local comunity. You can see the Geelong 4WD club and Latrobe Valley Aero club, amongst others, still supporting it.
Another incidental factor to relocating the airshow is therefore the volunteer force. A substantial number come from Geelong and have volunteered since its inception - it is unlikely they would ALL follow it interstate.
Another incidental factor to relocating the airshow is therefore the volunteer force. A substantial number come from Geelong and have volunteered since its inception - it is unlikely they would ALL follow it interstate.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Melbourne
Age: 30
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always been a big supporter of Avalon. Been to every one since i was 5. I'd hate to jump on the 'criticize at all costs' bandwagon but I fear I have to after the release of the provisional flying display. As a genuine aviation enthusiast I love warbirds, jets, airliners the lot. I do commend the organizers for getting that Raptor display we've always wanted and I realize that jet alone could quite possibly bring record crowds to the event. I'm also realistic about how hard it is to bring out foreign militaries and their hardware (Migs, Sukhois, etc etc). However I just look at that program and think...I don't even know. The absence of the Southern Knights, the Spartan, a classic hornet display, a B-1, the entire Judy Pay collection (correct me if I'm wrong) and a modern airliner is frustrating. It just looks bare. I cant say I'm not immensely looking forward to the F-22 and the return of the Caribou but there's definitely something missing from Avalon this year. Someone's gotta bring back that Dump n Burn we all loved. Maybe it is time for Avalon to move on 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: melb
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Airshow can stay at Avalon if the highly paid and pampered organisers do some thinking. They are now part of a Victorian State Government Organisation, eating out of the publics trough, time to get them to earn their money.
All this crowing about how they got the F22 here is a joke. All they did was say "yes" and ask what was required. The F22 was offered, as it was to the other allied nations.
Main GA and Mil ground display at Avalon and fast jet base. Handling displays done over the bay.
Warbirds and GA flying displays based at Moorabbin and flying displays done over the bay around Mordialloc.
Red Bull around Portsea and based at Tyabb.
All on the one weekend. All those free looks, amazing.
Why airshow is not covered live on FTA TV is a scandal. Many millions in advertising revenue is being lost.
All this crowing about how they got the F22 here is a joke. All they did was say "yes" and ask what was required. The F22 was offered, as it was to the other allied nations.
Main GA and Mil ground display at Avalon and fast jet base. Handling displays done over the bay.
Warbirds and GA flying displays based at Moorabbin and flying displays done over the bay around Mordialloc.
Red Bull around Portsea and based at Tyabb.
All on the one weekend. All those free looks, amazing.
Why airshow is not covered live on FTA TV is a scandal. Many millions in advertising revenue is being lost.
Mate you are so full of bs you're about to explode!!
So, my mates personally flying to Pearl Harbour Hawaii to meet with CINPACFLEET had nothing to do with the US military appearance??????
Get your hand off it you are a disgrace to the hard work of the organizers like my friend, you think something as big as this just falls into place....
Richard Cranium.
So, my mates personally flying to Pearl Harbour Hawaii to meet with CINPACFLEET had nothing to do with the US military appearance??????
Get your hand off it you are a disgrace to the hard work of the organizers like my friend, you think something as big as this just falls into place....
Richard Cranium.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 16th Feb 2013 at 04:27.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bairnsdale airshow got a B52 from Guam, cost them a trip to Melbourne by car, a letter and a slab of VB. For that they also got ajohn Travolta thrown in as the ambassador.