Mercy Flights
How do you conclude that it was a mercy flight Sunfish?
To me it looks like an aeromedical evac gone wrong.
morno
To me it looks like an aeromedical evac gone wrong.
morno
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Overloading an aircraft might be one rule best not to break even for a Mercy flight... Having said that, major Australian airlines did just that during the Darwin cyclone evac.
Last edited by HF3000; 4th Dec 2012 at 10:48.
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Fly a twin without endorsement - No!
I assume the opposition is based on the notion that the twin may go assymetric.
But, the question is NOT whether a non-endorsed pilot could handle an assymetric twin;
The question is whether such a course would be "safe" in the context of a mercy flight. Given that the person will likely die without the flight, then the answer is a resounding YES.
Think about the probabilities of the two events.
The twin going assymetric? A chance of about 1 in 10,000.
The person dying? A chance of about 1 in 10.
On those odds, I would be more than happy for a non-twin endorsed pilot to fly a twin on a mercy flight to move a family member of mine that would likely die if not flown.
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We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?
If you consider it that serious, "JUST DO IT" and suffer the consequences later.
If you consider it that serious, "JUST DO IT" and suffer the consequences later.
Always remember something that struck me when doing karate in the Garden City. There was a public exhibition of a variety of martial art styles the next day in the town hall. The class the night before was one of the hardest I ever experienced. I wasn't in the exhibition the next day but remember how hard the Sensei pushed us all. "The future doesn't exist. Do what is right is now." He said every punch, every strike, every kick you must give your full energy. He wouldn't let them save any energy or spare any thought for the next day. This went on for a couple of brutal hours. It was one of the best classes I ever had where we couldn't afford to consider the future and were thus able to reach a level of performance not normally obtained. The next day our team wasn't as sharp as they would have been had they had a relaxing light session but we all had the memory to treasure of truly having done our best.
Then in Japan I was in a style that stressed excellence through winning competitions. The night before an important competition the Japanese sensei said "just take it easy tonight. Tomorrow is the important day." During that class I was cautioned for putting into too much energy. I felt like a puppet going through the actions of doing something now while worrying about possible future outcomes.
I was bought up to believe that you do your best now when it counts and was shocked to see how even in the home of karate people in that style had become results orientated rather than effort orientated.
Likewise I always thought the Spirit of Flying in Aviation was to help others, and the key to humanity is helping others.
Love the saying "a coward dies a thousand times a soldier* dies but once."
* in the context of a hero from Shaekespeare's Julius Ceaser
If someone's life is at risk, and you think you can do the job, well how about rather than worrying about being growled at by someone whose life is spent in an office, you man up and try to save the poor blighter.
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 7th Dec 2012 at 02:34.
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Scenario:
You are snorkeling off the Great Barrier Reef. Your snorkeling guide who's name is PianoMan is violently swept out to sea so he's gone and one fellow passenger in your Beaver has just had his leg bitten off by a Great White shark.
You are a PPL with 100 hours and have never flown off floats before. You don't have a CSU, retract or float rating.
Do you:
A. Crank up that Beaver and fly the patient home
B. Wait for the Bell 206 rescue chopper
C. Wake up and stop dreaming as you'll never fly a Beaver on floats out of the Whitsundays
You are snorkeling off the Great Barrier Reef. Your snorkeling guide who's name is PianoMan is violently swept out to sea so he's gone and one fellow passenger in your Beaver has just had his leg bitten off by a Great White shark.
You are a PPL with 100 hours and have never flown off floats before. You don't have a CSU, retract or float rating.
Do you:
A. Crank up that Beaver and fly the patient home
B. Wait for the Bell 206 rescue chopper
C. Wake up and stop dreaming as you'll never fly a Beaver on floats out of the Whitsundays
What ever you decide, do it quickly. Reminds me of the 17th July 1983 when Aero Commander VH-WJC went down in the Bass Straight. It took 2 hour to get a helicopter over the crew. Too late sadly. Bob Vowles in an F27 (VH-FNO) was over the top very quickly but there was little he could do.
On Feb 07th 1974 near a flooded Mungerbah Station in NW QLD, flying a C210, I spotted an 'SOS' made out of rocks. I landed on a nearby road and rescued a stockman with a burst appendix. When I got airborne, Townville Flight Service gave me 'permission to conduct a Mercy Flight'. I had been and gone by then. Just do what you think is right with safety, stuff the Rules.
On Feb 07th 1974 near a flooded Mungerbah Station in NW QLD, flying a C210, I spotted an 'SOS' made out of rocks. I landed on a nearby road and rescued a stockman with a burst appendix. When I got airborne, Townville Flight Service gave me 'permission to conduct a Mercy Flight'. I had been and gone by then. Just do what you think is right with safety, stuff the Rules.
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Originally Posted by FGD135
Why the great opposition to flying a twin when not endorsed? Those who think this should not be done are demonstrating that they are not very good at weighing risk.
Ok, silliness over, just how would you expect a 100 pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?
Are they doing this Mercy Flight into a nice long runway or a marginal strip?
Is it dark or maybe the sun is very low and is shining into their eyes in this aircraft they have never flown before?
Just to be nice, let's assume the weather is perfect because it always is during an emergency like this.
Is your pilot going to take along someone to keep the critically injured person company and look after them. Maybe we should add a couple of more potential victims to this possible disaster scenario. The cheese is lining up nicely......Oh crap, the gear wasn't lowered (pilot didn't have that on their training aircraft or cowl flaps or CSU or Mains and Tip Tank fuel selection or Crossfeed or to make it even more complex, Turbocharger....asymetric condition here we come)
FDG, this can be a lot of risk assessment to weigh up especially for an inexperienced pilot in a pressure situation. We only need to look how some professional pilots react when flying for scenic operators in the outback (and I an NOT pointing any fingers)
Please do not take offence as none is intended but to put an inexperience M/E pilot into a type they have zero experience on doesn't seem like a good risk weight to me. I felt comfortable flying my multi but I would be very hesitant about jumping from a C310 into a PA31 or vice versa for that matter with zero PA31 time.
@By George. Your Mercy Flight is totally different to the original post. You were experienced on the aircraft. You had a road to land on and pick the victim up from. You also had a choice of reporting the SOS and letting others rescue them or do it yourself. Very different pressure wise than having an hysterical family member pleading with you to make the flight.
@VH-XXX. You 100 hour PPL, assuming he gets on the step and is able to get airborne, may either select Gear Down for his water landing at destination or leaves the magic wheel alone when they land on the runway. I would imagine in either scenario the flare would be "interesting" due to the unusual height our 100 hour PPL is used to.
In the meantime, GOOD NEWS!! Piano Man is found by a pod of friendly dolphins who know of his love of their habitat and is safely whisked back to shore only to find ZDA on it's back in the water or in need of new floats.
Apologies if it has been said before PM, but, mmmm, nice beaver.
Originally Posted by Frank Arouet
We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?
SE pilot is going to be wondering where the other mag key is to start the second engine.
Ok, silliness over, just how would you expect a 100 pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?
Ok, silliness over, just how would you expect a 100 pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?
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As InDaBack stated very very few people are so critical they need to be moved immediately and in most of those cases you will do more harm by moving them. (Spinal cases for example are not a life or death emergency, but need to be properly transported with a neck brace, vacuum mat, etc. you throwing them in a Piper Warrior will more than likely do permanent damage).
The Mercy Flight allows you to break a rule when all other avenues have been exhausted. It does not allow you to take off in to the sunset because you think you might be helping.
If you have ANY form of contact with the outside world... Telephone, Satellite phone, HF, even VHF on 121.5, your best option is to call the aeromedical organisation in your state. They are in a much better position to make the judgement call on how best to handle the situation and task the appropriate resources. (No runway lights for example may mean an NVG equipped helicopter is tasked instead assuming the patient can not be appropriately managed until daylight)
Would suggest the Mercy flight rule would actually be most applicable to aeromed operators who have the resources (aviation and medical crew working together) to determine the safest possible outcome for both the crew and the patient and take the "all other avenues" cause far more seriously.
The Mercy Flight allows you to break a rule when all other avenues have been exhausted. It does not allow you to take off in to the sunset because you think you might be helping.
If you have ANY form of contact with the outside world... Telephone, Satellite phone, HF, even VHF on 121.5, your best option is to call the aeromedical organisation in your state. They are in a much better position to make the judgement call on how best to handle the situation and task the appropriate resources. (No runway lights for example may mean an NVG equipped helicopter is tasked instead assuming the patient can not be appropriately managed until daylight)
Would suggest the Mercy flight rule would actually be most applicable to aeromed operators who have the resources (aviation and medical crew working together) to determine the safest possible outcome for both the crew and the patient and take the "all other avenues" cause far more seriously.
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... how would you expect a 100 hour pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?
You are talking about a situation where the pilot is unfamiliar with the aircraft and/or is inexperienced. This has nothing to do with whether the aircraft is multiengined or not. Those things you listed could apply equally for a SE pilot contemplating a mercy flight in a SE machine with which he is unfamiliar.
The point of my post was to address the view - expressed by a number of posters to this thread - that flight of a ME aircraft by a SE pilot is too risky for a mercy flight situation.
I demonstrated, by way of the probabilities, that this factor, by itself, should not stop a mercy flight. That is, the risks posed by an SE pilot flying a ME aircraft were tiny in comparison to the risk that the person would die.
Naturally, and I thought this would have been too obvious to need spelling out, there may be other risk factors such as night, low pilot experience, etc.
This thread has shown that a number of posters are having difficulties getting their heads around the fundamentals of mercy flights. To this end, the thread has been useful at encouraging thought and discussion.
Those fundamentals are:
1. Somebody will most likely die if the flight is not undertaken;
2. No other option for evacuating the person is available within the time available;
3. Some rule(s) must be broken;
Mercy flights will thus always involve some added risk. The challenge is to identify and accurately weigh those risks.
If you have ANY form of contact with the outside world...
You can't assume the RFDS can get to you in time. YOU may have to make that mercy flight.
Last edited by FGD135; 8th Dec 2012 at 04:57.
OR...
Perhaps being that guy with little M/E Experience you realise you CAN turn on the electronics and knowing how to operate the radios you get on the radio, explain your situation to anyone who is listening and ask for someone who does have experience on a PA31/Whatever to run you through the basics to get you underway safely!! Or perhaps you can only get ATC and you explain it to them and get to call the first appropriate training school they can think of and get them on the horn for you to run you through it!!
Hows that for out of the box thinking?
Perhaps being that guy with little M/E Experience you realise you CAN turn on the electronics and knowing how to operate the radios you get on the radio, explain your situation to anyone who is listening and ask for someone who does have experience on a PA31/Whatever to run you through the basics to get you underway safely!! Or perhaps you can only get ATC and you explain it to them and get to call the first appropriate training school they can think of and get them on the horn for you to run you through it!!
Hows that for out of the box thinking?
