Counselling after an accident or incident
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aus, or USA, or UK or EU, or possibly somehwere in Asia.
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Counseling, debriefing or whatever term you use to describe it is a very important consideration when someone has been involved in a serious accident.
Aussie Bob - your facile advice is perhaps the most inane drivel that you have ever posted, and that's saying something. for your sake i hope that your colleagues treat you in a much more considerate manner that you recommend if you are exposed to a traumatic event such as a serious aircraft accident.
i witnessed my first serious aircraft accident whilst learning to fly as a teenager (17 yo). i watched an aircrfat hit trees on take off and cartwheel into the ground while i was awaiting my instructor to turn up. i was one of the first on the scene and assisted with carefully removing the broken unconscious pilot from the fuel soaked wreck. no counciling, didn't seem needed. flew my lesson a little later than planned.
second serious accident witnessed was a fatal when i watched a plane hit wires on an approach. similar to above. flew cross country home next day. still in my teens.
two more serious ones involving homebuilts witnessed, still no probs, no counciling or debrief, wasn't even a drinker.
did an ag rating and another mate killed during the training course. i got out of the plane, he got in and spun it in right behind me while i was driving out the airport road. did not see it as i was horny and heading home.
three ag pilot friends killed in work flying accidents. was a drinker by then of course. debrief at pub.
had a couple of minor scrapes myself, brushed power lines with wheels, knocked a gear leg or two off with fence posts, but ,hey, we're all men here, no trick cyclists for us. now smoking at the pub as well.
had a big one and donged down a few trees before having to kick my way out of the burning wreckage upside down. quick medical check over at local clinic and fly home in a borrowed plane. back next day to finish the job in another plane. 40 a day and punishing the old liver pretty hard by that stage.
hit a flock of galahs while spraying, serious damage to the leading edges and busted windscreen but finished the job before 2 hour ferry back to base for repairs. cockpit floor almost ankle deep in buts, a couple of travellers for the drive home.
another two mates killed flying ag.
Next one, I hit a powerline in hill country and rode the plane in from about 300 feet. didn't think i was going to make it that time but didn't give up. big pull at the last second to mush it in, hit the ground hard, took a wing off, bounced back into the air, rolled inverted, hit the ground upside down and slid along for a bit dragged underneath it, then cartwheeled up the right way. two packets a day, marriage in tatters, VB was my friend.
a friend who was a vietnam vet suggested that i might like to have a chat to a friend of his and gave me a business card for a psychologist that the VVA use.
best thing i ever did!! i was amazed how helpful that taking to a trained professional in this field could be. a couple af visits worked wonders and only saw him about 5 times all up. i had to pay as no self respecting aviation company would acknowledge that this could possibly be work related.
almost gave up the B&H completely and cut down the drinking heaps. almost managed to stay married.
after the next prang i went back to this guy as a matter of course, befor ethe syptoms set in. two visits all sweet.
after the most recent get off, i went back again as soon as i was out of hospital, he listened once again asked a few questions and announced that he did not think that i would have and post traumatic streess issues as these events were no longer traumatic, they had become normal to me and i now had strategies to deal with the symptoms whenever i saw then rising. he was right about the second part, not so sure about his definition of normal.
given up smoking, a glass of wine with dinner from time to time these days is sufficient. happily remarried.
and every time i can help out someone who has piled one in to get a few things off their chest and then i give them a business card for you know who.
PTSD is very very real. if i am flying RPT i am happier if i believe that there must be a proper counciling and support protocol for the flight crew. sometimes i wonder if they had a big one, before they jopined the airlines.
IMHO every operator should treat this subject very seriously. PTSD has the potential to start a time bomb ticking away out there.
HD
Aussie Bob - your facile advice is perhaps the most inane drivel that you have ever posted, and that's saying something. for your sake i hope that your colleagues treat you in a much more considerate manner that you recommend if you are exposed to a traumatic event such as a serious aircraft accident.
i witnessed my first serious aircraft accident whilst learning to fly as a teenager (17 yo). i watched an aircrfat hit trees on take off and cartwheel into the ground while i was awaiting my instructor to turn up. i was one of the first on the scene and assisted with carefully removing the broken unconscious pilot from the fuel soaked wreck. no counciling, didn't seem needed. flew my lesson a little later than planned.
second serious accident witnessed was a fatal when i watched a plane hit wires on an approach. similar to above. flew cross country home next day. still in my teens.
two more serious ones involving homebuilts witnessed, still no probs, no counciling or debrief, wasn't even a drinker.
did an ag rating and another mate killed during the training course. i got out of the plane, he got in and spun it in right behind me while i was driving out the airport road. did not see it as i was horny and heading home.
three ag pilot friends killed in work flying accidents. was a drinker by then of course. debrief at pub.
had a couple of minor scrapes myself, brushed power lines with wheels, knocked a gear leg or two off with fence posts, but ,hey, we're all men here, no trick cyclists for us. now smoking at the pub as well.
had a big one and donged down a few trees before having to kick my way out of the burning wreckage upside down. quick medical check over at local clinic and fly home in a borrowed plane. back next day to finish the job in another plane. 40 a day and punishing the old liver pretty hard by that stage.
hit a flock of galahs while spraying, serious damage to the leading edges and busted windscreen but finished the job before 2 hour ferry back to base for repairs. cockpit floor almost ankle deep in buts, a couple of travellers for the drive home.
another two mates killed flying ag.
Next one, I hit a powerline in hill country and rode the plane in from about 300 feet. didn't think i was going to make it that time but didn't give up. big pull at the last second to mush it in, hit the ground hard, took a wing off, bounced back into the air, rolled inverted, hit the ground upside down and slid along for a bit dragged underneath it, then cartwheeled up the right way. two packets a day, marriage in tatters, VB was my friend.
a friend who was a vietnam vet suggested that i might like to have a chat to a friend of his and gave me a business card for a psychologist that the VVA use.
best thing i ever did!! i was amazed how helpful that taking to a trained professional in this field could be. a couple af visits worked wonders and only saw him about 5 times all up. i had to pay as no self respecting aviation company would acknowledge that this could possibly be work related.
almost gave up the B&H completely and cut down the drinking heaps. almost managed to stay married.
after the next prang i went back to this guy as a matter of course, befor ethe syptoms set in. two visits all sweet.
after the most recent get off, i went back again as soon as i was out of hospital, he listened once again asked a few questions and announced that he did not think that i would have and post traumatic streess issues as these events were no longer traumatic, they had become normal to me and i now had strategies to deal with the symptoms whenever i saw then rising. he was right about the second part, not so sure about his definition of normal.
given up smoking, a glass of wine with dinner from time to time these days is sufficient. happily remarried.
and every time i can help out someone who has piled one in to get a few things off their chest and then i give them a business card for you know who.
PTSD is very very real. if i am flying RPT i am happier if i believe that there must be a proper counciling and support protocol for the flight crew. sometimes i wonder if they had a big one, before they jopined the airlines.
IMHO every operator should treat this subject very seriously. PTSD has the potential to start a time bomb ticking away out there.
HD
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The center of the earths surface
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HarleyD needs counselling?
You seem quite conceited HarleyD:
SO what, more than a good number of people on here have seen and responded to worse, this was not a counsel session for HarleyD:
Aviation's the game, and fatalities go with it, get used to it? I think you should get out of the game while you are alive, if you are for real, your skill set is obviously not up to par!
WTF! H/Snort:
SO what, more than a good number of people on here have seen and responded to worse, this was not a counsel session for HarleyD:
Aviation's the game, and fatalities go with it, get used to it? I think you should get out of the game while you are alive, if you are for real, your skill set is obviously not up to par!
WTF! H/Snort:
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane
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HogSnort WTF?
It seems to me like you only read half the guy's post. From what I read he started off cocky and ended up coming to the realization that nobody is bulletproof and went for counseling. Pretty much sums up what happens when you lead an adventurous life and deny the consequences. They don't go away. The trauma lies in wait for the opportunity come out in a flood.
'H/snort'
Were you born that much of a tool or did you have to work at it?
Harley, I thought your piece was an honest and interesting insight into the microcosm that is Ag. Thankyou for sharing your piece with us.
j3
Were you born that much of a tool or did you have to work at it?
Harley, I thought your piece was an honest and interesting insight into the microcosm that is Ag. Thankyou for sharing your piece with us.
j3
Foot-in-mouth
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
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From personal experience, I found a counsellor that has little knowledge of your industry quite helpful.
It forces them to ask questions that someone with industry expertise would not ask. Often those questions will present the answer your subconcious seeks.
My first stoush with counselling was when I was 19. Finishing my trade ticket in a country town, driving tow trucks to supplement the measely wage. Had attended about hald a dozen fatals already, then got called to one in Yarragon. Until arrival, the fact it was a fatal was unknown. As I was driving the chase truck, it made me first 'service' on scene. I wandered over to see what was going on, although I already knew from the smell. Did the basic checks (pointless really) and walked back to my truck and drove back to base.
As this accident was on the hwy (main street of Yarragon) there were many bystanders. As it turned out, it was there reaction to my actions, rather than what I had seen that sent me a little troppo.
Counselling has a solid place in our lives. Even if you feel overcome with basic events going on in your life. Its helpful to talk to someone impartial to at least get them into a priority order. You can say what you really think without having the stigma of looking at that person the next day
It forces them to ask questions that someone with industry expertise would not ask. Often those questions will present the answer your subconcious seeks.
My first stoush with counselling was when I was 19. Finishing my trade ticket in a country town, driving tow trucks to supplement the measely wage. Had attended about hald a dozen fatals already, then got called to one in Yarragon. Until arrival, the fact it was a fatal was unknown. As I was driving the chase truck, it made me first 'service' on scene. I wandered over to see what was going on, although I already knew from the smell. Did the basic checks (pointless really) and walked back to my truck and drove back to base.
As this accident was on the hwy (main street of Yarragon) there were many bystanders. As it turned out, it was there reaction to my actions, rather than what I had seen that sent me a little troppo.
Counselling has a solid place in our lives. Even if you feel overcome with basic events going on in your life. Its helpful to talk to someone impartial to at least get them into a priority order. You can say what you really think without having the stigma of looking at that person the next day
Last edited by jas24zzk; 13th Sep 2012 at 14:06.
