So, what exactly is a "Cloudbreak Procedure" ?
The turn back manouvre in training killed four pilots in the RAAF until it was banned 25 years ago. Obviously that has been forgotten?
They are a legitimate part of the takeoff safety plan for a PC9 and I wouldn't hesitate to try one if the circumstances were favourable - as Stally says, it's not pushing the envelope in an aircraft like that with suitably chosen height and speed gates.
They are a legitimate part of the takeoff safety plan for a PC9 and I
wouldn't hesitate to try one if the circumstances were favourable - as Stally
says, it's not pushing the envelope in an aircraft like that with suitably
chosen height and speed gates.
wouldn't hesitate to try one if the circumstances were favourable - as Stally
says, it's not pushing the envelope in an aircraft like that with suitably
chosen height and speed gates.
Yes, true, but even for a single-engine, non-ejection seat aircraft with similar climb and glide performance, the option of landing back on the takeoff runway with engine out is a legitimate one.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Aloft
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To summarise all of the above:
- Correct, it's not mentioned in PANS-OPS.
- It's essentially an instrument approach procedure - most usually to a ground-based navaid such as a NDB or VOR/DME - that essentially can only deliver you to a known location from which you must be visual to circle and land ... and is (usually*) defined by circling minima at lowest.
That is, a cloudbreak is a circling procedure! No straight-in minima published. - Yep, there are GPS (pre use of term GNSS) cloudbreak APCHs in PNG (for more on those, ref OzExpat)
- In South Africa, they call them Breakcloud procedures!
- * In South Africa, sometimes the minima is defined as "not known, land at pilot discretion" ... or wording to that effect
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In USA there is also a manoeuvre called "Sidestep". Typically ILS to one runway then when visual at above a certain safe altitude, you simply slide across a bit to land on the parallel runway. Guam was an example with ILS runway 6L - sidestep to land 6R. I suppose you could also call it a cloud break manoeuvre?
Last edited by A37575; 15th Jul 2012 at 10:55.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting variety of responses. It would seem that "cloudbreak" means a number of different things in different contexts.
In the context of the charted procedures used at a number of airports Papua New Guinea, none of the offered suggestions have quite hit the mark, although some are close.
What a cloudbreak is not (in this context):
It's not a procedure *not* associated with an airport. All the ones I know of in PNG are very much associated with a specific airport.
It's not what a GPS approach is called in PNG. Some of the cloudbreaks are based on GPS, others are NDB or NDB and DME. And there are GPS approaches which are called GPS approaches (Moro, for example)
Obviously, a cloudbreak is a procedure that is some combination of too far from the airport/too high above the airfield/not aligned with the runway to be considered an approach. But apparently how far/high/unaligned before it's not an approach is shrouded in mystery.
For what it's worth, we don't have this term in the US, they're all called instrument approach procedures, but to be an approach to a specific runway, the final approach course has to be aligned within 30 degrees of the runway and the MDA low enough for a "normal" descent for landing (No more than 400 ft/NM) Otherwise it's a "circling" approach and some maneuvering is required for landing.
In the context of the charted procedures used at a number of airports Papua New Guinea, none of the offered suggestions have quite hit the mark, although some are close.
What a cloudbreak is not (in this context):
It's not a procedure *not* associated with an airport. All the ones I know of in PNG are very much associated with a specific airport.
It's not what a GPS approach is called in PNG. Some of the cloudbreaks are based on GPS, others are NDB or NDB and DME. And there are GPS approaches which are called GPS approaches (Moro, for example)
Obviously, a cloudbreak is a procedure that is some combination of too far from the airport/too high above the airfield/not aligned with the runway to be considered an approach. But apparently how far/high/unaligned before it's not an approach is shrouded in mystery.
For what it's worth, we don't have this term in the US, they're all called instrument approach procedures, but to be an approach to a specific runway, the final approach course has to be aligned within 30 degrees of the runway and the MDA low enough for a "normal" descent for landing (No more than 400 ft/NM) Otherwise it's a "circling" approach and some maneuvering is required for landing.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Arm out the window
Originally Posted by compressor stall
Ísafjörður
CS, your suggestion that ozexpat might have the answer was right on.
I found this old thread in which he says that it's use in PNG is a procedure where the MAP is outside the circling area. That definition seems to be the most consistent with my observations about cloudbreak procedures.
