How many hours student pilot generally have when going first solo?
Most experienced flying instructors will remember "memorable" students they have met in their career. That could mean very nice, but unfortunately bloody awful students. Or maybe the occasional first class students who were "naturals".
I was privileged to have flown with one of the naturals. He was a Pacific islander sent by his government to Melbourne for a flying scholarship assessment.
He was from Nauru and his love in life was fishing on Anabare Bay on the island of Nauru. His parents pushed him into applying for the scholarship and if everything worked as planned he would become a first officer on the national airline called Air Nauru. His brother was already in the airline.
From the time our Piper Warrior lifted off the runway at Essendon, you could see this young chap was a natural. Yet he had never flown before. Over the next few days we flew to Point Cook in the calm of the early morning while there were no others in the circuit. Every manoeuvre that I first demonstrated he would emulate with no significant errors. As he flew he was watching for other aircraft and reported seeing the big jets heading to Tullamarine in the distance. I didn't have to tell him to keep his eyes open for traffic-he did it naturally.
Stalling clean and dirty configurations steep turns, practice forced landings in the training area and immediately after take off, circuit joining and lots of circuits of all types. Just one demonstration by the instructor and this student could nail it every time. I felt that I had discovered a flying genius.
Go-arounds from the flare with full flap were done perfectly. Each day was perfect weather and we landed on the grass at Point Cook. Finally we lined up on grass right runway 18 (or was it 17?) and I told him to fly one circuit by himself and I got out to watch. Normally most instructors feel slightly uneasy when sending someone on a first solo and it is a relief when they get down safely. With this student I just knew he would grease the landing. After all, the dew was still on the grass and any slight crosswind would not result in the sound of sideways skidding tyres.
His solo flight was perfect and he taxied back to pick me up and we flew back to Essendon. He was a big quiet sort of bloke who said little but was a good listener. My log book showed he had gone solo in 4.2 hours and that included travel times Essendon to Point Cook and back.
At Essendon I signed his log book and said well done. Yet, I sensed it was all a boring game to him and told him I got the impression he wasn't really interested in being a pilot. He admitted as much saying he only came to Melbourne for the scholarship assessment because he wanted to keep his mum and dad happy. He preferred fishing and mixing paints as his hobby. And he missed Nauru and his mum and dad and he hoped they wouldn't be upset. He never flew again but still has his log book with his 10 minutes of solo in it.
I wrote a story about him a few years ago and I called it "The Ace of Anabare Bay". That was nearly 20 years ago and he is married and now lives in Brisbane with his wife and kids. Occasionally he has been known to fly back to Nauru to see his relatives and to throw a fishing net into Anabare Bay - just to keep his hand in you know.
I was privileged to have flown with one of the naturals. He was a Pacific islander sent by his government to Melbourne for a flying scholarship assessment.
He was from Nauru and his love in life was fishing on Anabare Bay on the island of Nauru. His parents pushed him into applying for the scholarship and if everything worked as planned he would become a first officer on the national airline called Air Nauru. His brother was already in the airline.
From the time our Piper Warrior lifted off the runway at Essendon, you could see this young chap was a natural. Yet he had never flown before. Over the next few days we flew to Point Cook in the calm of the early morning while there were no others in the circuit. Every manoeuvre that I first demonstrated he would emulate with no significant errors. As he flew he was watching for other aircraft and reported seeing the big jets heading to Tullamarine in the distance. I didn't have to tell him to keep his eyes open for traffic-he did it naturally.
Stalling clean and dirty configurations steep turns, practice forced landings in the training area and immediately after take off, circuit joining and lots of circuits of all types. Just one demonstration by the instructor and this student could nail it every time. I felt that I had discovered a flying genius.
Go-arounds from the flare with full flap were done perfectly. Each day was perfect weather and we landed on the grass at Point Cook. Finally we lined up on grass right runway 18 (or was it 17?) and I told him to fly one circuit by himself and I got out to watch. Normally most instructors feel slightly uneasy when sending someone on a first solo and it is a relief when they get down safely. With this student I just knew he would grease the landing. After all, the dew was still on the grass and any slight crosswind would not result in the sound of sideways skidding tyres.
His solo flight was perfect and he taxied back to pick me up and we flew back to Essendon. He was a big quiet sort of bloke who said little but was a good listener. My log book showed he had gone solo in 4.2 hours and that included travel times Essendon to Point Cook and back.
At Essendon I signed his log book and said well done. Yet, I sensed it was all a boring game to him and told him I got the impression he wasn't really interested in being a pilot. He admitted as much saying he only came to Melbourne for the scholarship assessment because he wanted to keep his mum and dad happy. He preferred fishing and mixing paints as his hobby. And he missed Nauru and his mum and dad and he hoped they wouldn't be upset. He never flew again but still has his log book with his 10 minutes of solo in it.
I wrote a story about him a few years ago and I called it "The Ace of Anabare Bay". That was nearly 20 years ago and he is married and now lives in Brisbane with his wife and kids. Occasionally he has been known to fly back to Nauru to see his relatives and to throw a fishing net into Anabare Bay - just to keep his hand in you know.
7.4 hours, I remember Stan Mobbs getting out of the C150 on a cold winter morning in 1974 with the words "don't bend it I have another student at 9"
These were the good old days at Bankstown where you could walk through Sid Marshalls hangar and look at the Me109 and the Lockheed 10 from Ansett rotting away outside.
These were the good old days at Bankstown where you could walk through Sid Marshalls hangar and look at the Me109 and the Lockheed 10 from Ansett rotting away outside.
I remember "How many hours to first solo ?" being asked on one of the hundreds of job applications I've filled out over the years. Obviously they wanted to gauge basic ability.
I had about 14 hours altogether in my log book which was spread out over a period of time. It would have been a bit less had I started with a couple of weeks free time and sufficient funds in the account, arse covering was far less important in the 1980s.
Longest I remember was 83 hours to solo and 160 to PPL, determination won in the end.
I had about 14 hours altogether in my log book which was spread out over a period of time. It would have been a bit less had I started with a couple of weeks free time and sufficient funds in the account, arse covering was far less important in the 1980s.
Longest I remember was 83 hours to solo and 160 to PPL, determination won in the end.
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My Turn
First solo in a Glider in I cant remember how many hours, my gliding logbook is hidden away somewhere and I'm not digging it out.
We all have a favourite part to our jobs, as an instructor taking someone from zero to first solo is my buzz. My record is 5hours zero to solo. He was a special case though, the next closest sits around 7.5 but most fall between 10 and 20 hours.
There are those that have the gift and those that don't. If you're among the 95% of us that don't then it's half you, half your instructors experience and 100% determination that will get you through in a timely fashion.
"...you only go first solo once..."
We all have a favourite part to our jobs, as an instructor taking someone from zero to first solo is my buzz. My record is 5hours zero to solo. He was a special case though, the next closest sits around 7.5 but most fall between 10 and 20 hours.
There are those that have the gift and those that don't. If you're among the 95% of us that don't then it's half you, half your instructors experience and 100% determination that will get you through in a timely fashion.
"...you only go first solo once..."
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now eyes on the end of the runway
During the hold off ensure you look towards the end of the runway - not just ahead of the aeroplane. Amazing that many instructors don't use this technique to solve the final stage of the landing.
You are trapped on the roof of a house that's on fire and you want to jump to the ground. Would you look 1000 m in front of you to judge when to brace your body for impact? You would, but only if you wanted two broken legs.
You would look straight down and this works because you have little or no forward speed.
On an approach in a training aeroplane, you do have forward speed - lets assume 70 KIAS. If you looked straight down to judge your height the ground would lack texture and be blurry. It is therefore inappropriate to look straight down.
But looking at the end of the runway is overkill. If you start by looking at the horizon the ground will appear to be stationary. If you draw your gaze back towards you, you will reach a point where the ground first appears to begin rushing towards you. It is just prior to this point that you want and you will find its about 50 - 100 m ahead.
Not that i put much stock in anything CASA says, but PUB 45 and its successor (Flight Instructors Manual p45) both say similar things.
I know one very experienced instructor who teaches to look about a cricket pitch in front - but then, his assessment technique sometimes revolves around whether the student is a white man, who speaks english and likes cricket...
At night, there is no texture anywhere, so the best spot to look is at the end, where the lights are. Using this technique by day is just lazy instructing.
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I've got a mate who can trump all in this pissing contest,,,first flight , "solo" ,,,,of course first landing was a bit of a crash,,,,second flight was also solo with a bit better landing, still flying today but does talk fondly of the good old days
Instructors probably don't use this technique because its wrong, unless the end of the runway is 50 - 100 m away. Consider:
You are trapped on the roof of a house that's on fire and you want to jump to the ground. Would you look 1000 m in front of you to judge when to brace your body for impact? You would, but only if you wanted two broken legs.
You would look straight down and this works because you have little or no forward speed.
At night, there is no texture anywhere, so the best spot to look is at the end, where the lights are. Using this technique by day is just lazy instructing.
Rubbish!
For a start, you're not bracing for impact. I don't get the burning house thingy either.
The end of the runway is the ideal focal point because its clearly identifiable but more importantly means the visual cues from one's peripheral vision will facilitate depth perception - day or night.
I wouldn't count on the CASA manual as bible on all things flying.
You are trapped on the roof of a house that's on fire and you want to jump to the ground. Would you look 1000 m in front of you to judge when to brace your body for impact? You would, but only if you wanted two broken legs.
You would look straight down and this works because you have little or no forward speed.
At night, there is no texture anywhere, so the best spot to look is at the end, where the lights are. Using this technique by day is just lazy instructing.
Rubbish!
For a start, you're not bracing for impact. I don't get the burning house thingy either.
The end of the runway is the ideal focal point because its clearly identifiable but more importantly means the visual cues from one's peripheral vision will facilitate depth perception - day or night.
I wouldn't count on the CASA manual as bible on all things flying.
Scavenger, are you actually an instructor?
Lazy instructing?
CRAP of the highest magnitude imo.
(Choice opinions as to where you might have gotten this information deleted)
Agree with Second to None's comments.
In addition, why the fcuk would you be landing with 100m remaining?
Go around time, Sunshine.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the end of the runway, but 50-100m is nothing (ie. not enough) in the big picture.
Looking ahead down the runway (note the wording and I am quite happy to say if it's a 700m runway, then yes, they will be looking more towards the end) tends to dampen out the student's reactions. They begin relying subconsciously on their peripheral vision to judge their height. Looking directly at the point in front of them tends to produce overcorrections resulting in a porpoising effect until they finally bang it onto the runway.
This technique is not something that is consciously carried throughout your flying. It is a way for the student to learn to smoothly flare the aircraft and when used in conjuction with another technique like the holding-off-as-long-as-possible-with-a-bit-of-power game gives the student the "feel" for landing the aircraft properly. We can describe to you exactly how to land, but I'll guarantee you won't get it exactly right on the first try. Like driving a car, it's all shiny and new and takes a lot of effort when you start, but with practise, it becomes second nature.
Been teaching it that way for many years and yet to have a student prove me wrong. I am in no way berating another instructor for using a shorter amount, but mildly pissed that you choose to describe me as lazy (albeit in generalisation) for using a technique that works.
Lazy instructing?
CRAP of the highest magnitude imo.
(Choice opinions as to where you might have gotten this information deleted)
Agree with Second to None's comments.
In addition, why the fcuk would you be landing with 100m remaining?
Go around time, Sunshine.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the end of the runway, but 50-100m is nothing (ie. not enough) in the big picture.
Looking ahead down the runway (note the wording and I am quite happy to say if it's a 700m runway, then yes, they will be looking more towards the end) tends to dampen out the student's reactions. They begin relying subconsciously on their peripheral vision to judge their height. Looking directly at the point in front of them tends to produce overcorrections resulting in a porpoising effect until they finally bang it onto the runway.
This technique is not something that is consciously carried throughout your flying. It is a way for the student to learn to smoothly flare the aircraft and when used in conjuction with another technique like the holding-off-as-long-as-possible-with-a-bit-of-power game gives the student the "feel" for landing the aircraft properly. We can describe to you exactly how to land, but I'll guarantee you won't get it exactly right on the first try. Like driving a car, it's all shiny and new and takes a lot of effort when you start, but with practise, it becomes second nature.
Been teaching it that way for many years and yet to have a student prove me wrong. I am in no way berating another instructor for using a shorter amount, but mildly pissed that you choose to describe me as lazy (albeit in generalisation) for using a technique that works.
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 10th May 2012 at 11:38.
Glad the two previous posters backed up my original comments.
Looking only slightly ahead means the pilot cannot see the 'whole' picture during the hold off i.e. drift, yaw, ballooning and sink.
It's not lazy instructing - in fact a technique that's worked for me over the years from sending 10 hour students solo to solving landing issues in heavier aircraft for CAR217 organisations.
Remember, I said "hold-off", not "initial flare". You'll be focusing on the aim point to judge when to start flaring (more like the jumping from a building scenario you gave), then moving your vision upwards as you commence and maintain the hold off. If you don't understand the difference between the flare and the hold-off go away and read a book about it.
A side story, my "favourite" landing technique was from one of aviation's "experts" in the NT who makes pilots look out of the side window to judge the hold off. I flew with a pilot who'd been using this technique for 12 months and his landings were inconsistent and of a poor standard - I wouldn't send him solo based on his efforts! A few circuits of looking ahead had his landings back to perfect.
Looking only slightly ahead means the pilot cannot see the 'whole' picture during the hold off i.e. drift, yaw, ballooning and sink.
It's not lazy instructing - in fact a technique that's worked for me over the years from sending 10 hour students solo to solving landing issues in heavier aircraft for CAR217 organisations.
Remember, I said "hold-off", not "initial flare". You'll be focusing on the aim point to judge when to start flaring (more like the jumping from a building scenario you gave), then moving your vision upwards as you commence and maintain the hold off. If you don't understand the difference between the flare and the hold-off go away and read a book about it.
A side story, my "favourite" landing technique was from one of aviation's "experts" in the NT who makes pilots look out of the side window to judge the hold off. I flew with a pilot who'd been using this technique for 12 months and his landings were inconsistent and of a poor standard - I wouldn't send him solo based on his efforts! A few circuits of looking ahead had his landings back to perfect.
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You get sent solo when the instructor knows he (or she) will still be guiding you from inside your head even when they are not in the cockpit.
A really good instructor will keep flying with you for the rest of your flying career!
A really good instructor will keep flying with you for the rest of your flying career!
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Just do it, then let us know the results.
It takes 5 hours to get a RAA certificate even if you have 30,000 hours on heavy jets.
Just do it!
It takes 5 hours to get a RAA certificate even if you have 30,000 hours on heavy jets.
Just do it!
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30 hrs is certainly not excessive but it is worth looking into. At one school i worked at there were guidlines that required CFI/G1 intervention at a certain point. didn't always require a flight, just a discussion with the instructor about the students progress. Just so such things didn't balloon out.
Often a fresh set of hands will work wonders. Even though yours in a G1, doesn't mean he knows everything. Have a talk to your CFI about it. often it can be the simplest thing and then you'll nail it.
most of all.....enjoy it and always be safe.
Often a fresh set of hands will work wonders. Even though yours in a G1, doesn't mean he knows everything. Have a talk to your CFI about it. often it can be the simplest thing and then you'll nail it.
most of all.....enjoy it and always be safe.
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You can look at the end of the runway sure, but don't do it from 200ft altitude; do it when you are close to the runway to slow down the descent for a perfect landing. That way, 500 metres or 1000, it doesn't matter.
30 hrs is certainly not excessive
Just so such things didn't balloon out.
You reckon 30 is excessive?
I saw a student that was milked for over 50.
Absolutely CRIMINAL on the part of the flying school. They just kept flying him with Grade 3's. No need to actually fix his problems....
I saw a student that was milked for over 50.
Absolutely CRIMINAL on the part of the flying school. They just kept flying him with Grade 3's. No need to actually fix his problems....
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...and if anyone is looking for a way to fall asleep tonight...
ATSB: Investigation of Visual Flight Cues for Timing the Initiation of the Landing Flare
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/32724/grant_20050119.pdf
ATSB: Investigation of Visual Flight Cues for Timing the Initiation of the Landing Flare
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/32724/grant_20050119.pdf