How many hours student pilot generally have when going first solo?
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Serious? I would have thought 'effects of controls', 'climbing and descending turns', 'EFATO' and 'Stall recovery' would take at the least 4 hours to teach, let alone practice and that's even before getting to do circuit training. I would never release any student to go solo before they could demonstrate all these competently, AND OF COURSE, the fun bit... approach, flare and land.
If you are having problems with the feel of the elevators during the flare, this is what i do with problematic students.
2 stages of flap, i control the power, get the student to fly down the runway at about 1 foot above the surface, hes not allowed to touch down, nor go above 3 feet. This is done at about 60ish kts, just above the normal speed so it gives you teh correct attitude for landing, also the ground being so close you get the instant visual feedback of your adjustments to the back pressure.
Now on a landing, if you baloon, relax the back pressure to halt the climb, then re apply the back pressure to stop the subsequent sink again, which is really the 2nd flare.. Say to yourself, relax, re apply, thats about the cadence of it.
This video is a good example of it.
2 stages of flap, i control the power, get the student to fly down the runway at about 1 foot above the surface, hes not allowed to touch down, nor go above 3 feet. This is done at about 60ish kts, just above the normal speed so it gives you teh correct attitude for landing, also the ground being so close you get the instant visual feedback of your adjustments to the back pressure.
Now on a landing, if you baloon, relax the back pressure to halt the climb, then re apply the back pressure to stop the subsequent sink again, which is really the 2nd flare.. Say to yourself, relax, re apply, thats about the cadence of it.
This video is a good example of it.
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XXX SOP's say to hold of with a trickle of power and fly as close to the taxiway as possible. Saves on rubber and time especially when you own the beast and are paying the bills.
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Serious? I would have thought 'effects of controls', 'climbing and descending turns', 'EFATO' and 'Stall recovery' would take at the least 4 hours to teach, let alone practice and that's even before getting to do circuit training. I would never release any student to go solo before they could demonstrate all these competently, AND OF COURSE, the fun bit... approach, flare and land.
tho i did omit a word. my First POWERED solo. That being said, the first page of my gliding log book has less that 1.5 hours in it, of which 18 mins is solo.
If you're nice, i'll scan em for you if you like
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It's not necessarily the hours behind the stick that count, you need to pick up on the stuff at the aeroclub level. The experiences, advice, stories, crap and the like. These are of just as much value as the lessons. Admittedly a B.S filter is required, however that's where the beginning of airmanship starts to take form.
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I have to agree with XXX wholeheartedly here! 
When I did my GFPT, I went to a school that whilst attempting to promote a club atmosphere failed somewhat. It was more a turn up, get a briefing, go for a fly, get a quick debrief, pay your bill and leave type of place.
Where I fly now, whilst it is no longer a club as such, still has a STRONG club atmosphere. You can do the fly pay and go thing, or you can turn up early, have a chat and a relax from the drive (yer like 1.5 km for me) go do your flying, and hang around chatting afterwards. You'll meet lots of great people, learn something from almost every conversation. Get asked along for a ride with GFPT holders, offered trips somewhere with PPL holders, and you'll learn something everytime.
Even our venerable CFI learns things
When I did my GFPT, I went to a school that whilst attempting to promote a club atmosphere failed somewhat. It was more a turn up, get a briefing, go for a fly, get a quick debrief, pay your bill and leave type of place.
Where I fly now, whilst it is no longer a club as such, still has a STRONG club atmosphere. You can do the fly pay and go thing, or you can turn up early, have a chat and a relax from the drive (yer like 1.5 km for me) go do your flying, and hang around chatting afterwards. You'll meet lots of great people, learn something from almost every conversation. Get asked along for a ride with GFPT holders, offered trips somewhere with PPL holders, and you'll learn something everytime.
Even our venerable CFI learns things
Better check, it might've fallen off already.
Roger, these dicky whackers are no indication of your own flying ability.
I have seen and sent many capable pilots solo at more than 20 hours. Some may take a little longer than others, but I have often found that because they have had to work harder, they have later progressed at a better rate than others who have found the going easier and tended to kick back a bit.
Your own progess is not to be judged by how long it took you to go solo. I would tend to suggest that those blowing their own horns about how good they (think they) are, merely demonstrate they more than likely had an instructor who;
A) didn't complete the syllabus
And
B) was lucky the student didn't kill themselves through inexperience
Yes, I was a low time solo myself, but I'm not going to make a student who may already be lacking a bit of self confidence feel any worse by whacking off in public.
Roger, these dicky whackers are no indication of your own flying ability.
I have seen and sent many capable pilots solo at more than 20 hours. Some may take a little longer than others, but I have often found that because they have had to work harder, they have later progressed at a better rate than others who have found the going easier and tended to kick back a bit.
Your own progess is not to be judged by how long it took you to go solo. I would tend to suggest that those blowing their own horns about how good they (think they) are, merely demonstrate they more than likely had an instructor who;
A) didn't complete the syllabus
And
B) was lucky the student didn't kill themselves through inexperience
Yes, I was a low time solo myself, but I'm not going to make a student who may already be lacking a bit of self confidence feel any worse by whacking off in public.
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@roger_hujin
The more important question IMHO is: after the exam, when I am allowed to take to the skies without either instructor or instructor’s permit, will it make me a worse/less skilled/unsafer pilot if I have had more dual hours before going solo?
According to all pertinent statements from competent pilots and instructors (as well as the personal experience of not-so-competent me): not in the least. Unless you have 200 hours instead of 20 without having soloed, just disregard it, the topic is really not worth more than a pissing contest.
According to all pertinent statements from competent pilots and instructors (as well as the personal experience of not-so-competent me): not in the least. Unless you have 200 hours instead of 20 without having soloed, just disregard it, the topic is really not worth more than a pissing contest.
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Over here in NZ, I have been sending first solos for many years.
When they are given to me by a C cat instructor,(Oz, grade 3) I quizz said instructor re the syllabus, etc etc, to ensure evrything has been taught as per requirements, then checking the students medical, etc etc, do the first solo check.
I make a habit of not looking at their "hours", but, do a proper check of their ability to fly safely, and make command decisions.
AFTER, the first solo, all is revealed re the hours, and I find that 10 to 15 would be an average, not many would be more than 18.
(Busy airfield)
I have sent first solo, young pilots on their 16th birthday, and some years ago, a lady of 75 (who had a 3 month medical) who had always wanted to fly solo, just once.... she was good too!
I am a CFI, and still get a buzz by sending first solos.!
I am fortunate, a good bunch of Junior instructors always seem to do a good job.
They almost always, present a student, who is ready for solo.
Cheers
When they are given to me by a C cat instructor,(Oz, grade 3) I quizz said instructor re the syllabus, etc etc, to ensure evrything has been taught as per requirements, then checking the students medical, etc etc, do the first solo check.
I make a habit of not looking at their "hours", but, do a proper check of their ability to fly safely, and make command decisions.
AFTER, the first solo, all is revealed re the hours, and I find that 10 to 15 would be an average, not many would be more than 18.
(Busy airfield)
I have sent first solo, young pilots on their 16th birthday, and some years ago, a lady of 75 (who had a 3 month medical) who had always wanted to fly solo, just once.... she was good too!
I am a CFI, and still get a buzz by sending first solos.!
I am fortunate, a good bunch of Junior instructors always seem to do a good job.
They almost always, present a student, who is ready for solo.
Cheers
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It doesn't matter how long it takes, just that you get there in the end.
He had been told many times that flying wasn't for him, but he persisted by changing schools over and over. Some people were never meant to fly!
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I went solo at around 18-19(with out having my logbook in my hand at the moment and my dikc in my other hand) I could have probably gone sooner but the **** running the school dicked about with my medical and an ASIC , in the end it didn't matter , I went solo , the dikcheads school shut down and I ended up in an RAAus school with a couple of top notch FI's. Got back to PPL after a couple of years. I wonder at some of the times here though, unless you've been around aircraft or had a parent or relative who let you have a go (it does happen I'm led to believe) I really take my hat of to anyone who is totally green going solo in under ten hours, for me , the first time I'd ever been within a stones throw of a light aircraft was a TIF.
Met
Met
in your own time ...
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, as PIC you have to be prepared for "anything".
Probably a long way from the worst that can happen but was at the debrief after a first solo who was 'forgotten' by ATC, until he called, and was then asked to perform a 360 ... he was on final at the time. The airport was busy and cross-runways in use - and just a bit unnerving.
Welcome to flying!
Probably a long way from the worst that can happen but was at the debrief after a first solo who was 'forgotten' by ATC, until he called, and was then asked to perform a 360 ... he was on final at the time. The airport was busy and cross-runways in use - and just a bit unnerving.
Welcome to flying!
money grabbing technique?
I know how much I spent getting my license and knew when I was getting gouged. I refuse to engage in that sort of practise.
That being said, I will not leave myself liable to legal action by send my student solo half assed. More importantly, my student deserves to be properly prepared for what I am about to send them up to do.
wrt excessive flying, different story if the student obviously won't put in the hard yards to help themselves. You can only do so much to help them through. Had a student who was getting his PPL(A) to step through to his rotary license, but had no interest whatsoever in anything fixed wing. Daddy was paying so he didn't care how long it took. Put no effort at all.
Aside, he the hell did this post jump ahead?
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An interesting concept to note is how different schools follow a set syllabus in regards to the way they train their students or whether the instructors teach by the competency of the student.
Follow a syllabus and you stretch out the time a student could go solo from 10 hours to nearly 20...money grabbing technique?
Follow a syllabus and you stretch out the time a student could go solo from 10 hours to nearly 20...money grabbing technique?
The syllabus is like a checklist, there for a reason to make sure everything is covered,
If one sends a student solo after 3hrs ( with no prior experience ) is one really confident they can handle incipient base-final stalls and EFATO? Ninety nine times out of hundred the first solo will be uneventful. On the other one occasion someone might end up dead if they lack the necessary skills to recover.
If one sends a student solo after 3hrs ( with no prior experience ) is one really confident they can handle incipient base-final stalls and EFATO? Ninety nine times out of hundred the first solo will be uneventful. On the other one occasion someone might end up dead if they lack the necessary skills to recover.
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Roger,
Have had a read back over the comments that more directly relate to your original question.
To my mind, the fact you are asking this question in an open forum, tells me that you feel you are ready.
Take a look at the syllabus for Solo level, and ask yourself if you can fly each of those tasks safely. Review some of your flying, to my mind at your level you'd pretty much only be doing circuits now anyway. Consider where your instructor has had to help you with control inputs, or therein lack of.
A few things not really asked/answered. Are you flying with the one instructor all the time? No? Then have that changed! the hours close to first solo are very important, and continuity in instruction method/style are very important. Yes? If you feel you might be ready then tap the CFI on the shoulder and book a flight with her/him. Ask for a progress report. Force the CFI to read your notes and quizz your instructor(s) Maybe ask for the CFI's opinion before you go flying with her/him. Until you have a list of things you need to work on, your goal will remain in the distance in your mind.
Remember the standard you are required to reach for first solo, is somewhat lower than for your PPL. Its just proficiency you need to attain.
Heck make yourself known, go for a fly with someone else as an observer. Often this is enough to break a block to a student going solo when they see how other people go about the business.
Sounds like you are close dude, relax and pretend the instructor isn't there.
Trimming techniques discussed here, whilst helpfull, are things you will develope after solo anyway. Even guys with 10k hours have trouble trimming some days.
Cheers and good luck.
Jas
Have had a read back over the comments that more directly relate to your original question.
To my mind, the fact you are asking this question in an open forum, tells me that you feel you are ready.
Take a look at the syllabus for Solo level, and ask yourself if you can fly each of those tasks safely. Review some of your flying, to my mind at your level you'd pretty much only be doing circuits now anyway. Consider where your instructor has had to help you with control inputs, or therein lack of.
A few things not really asked/answered. Are you flying with the one instructor all the time? No? Then have that changed! the hours close to first solo are very important, and continuity in instruction method/style are very important. Yes? If you feel you might be ready then tap the CFI on the shoulder and book a flight with her/him. Ask for a progress report. Force the CFI to read your notes and quizz your instructor(s) Maybe ask for the CFI's opinion before you go flying with her/him. Until you have a list of things you need to work on, your goal will remain in the distance in your mind.
Remember the standard you are required to reach for first solo, is somewhat lower than for your PPL. Its just proficiency you need to attain.
Heck make yourself known, go for a fly with someone else as an observer. Often this is enough to break a block to a student going solo when they see how other people go about the business.
Sounds like you are close dude, relax and pretend the instructor isn't there.
Trimming techniques discussed here, whilst helpfull, are things you will develope after solo anyway. Even guys with 10k hours have trouble trimming some days.
Cheers and good luck.
Jas
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Try flaring at "double decker bus" height and then look at end of runway and try to keep it flying..... It will settle itself down easy enough.
12 hours to solo passed in 45hrs 10mins in 2011
12 hours to solo passed in 45hrs 10mins in 2011
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Solo in 13 but I only got my ppl at 90. Honestly thought it was all easy but struggled to grasp xcountry navs I could follow the track and plan well but deviations and TE was my downfall early on.
I say practice heaps in the training area, at home at the desk simulate stalls, pfl's. I think if you are honest with yourself you'll know if you are ready.
Some instructors may wait for you to show/say that your confident & you are ready .
GL
I say practice heaps in the training area, at home at the desk simulate stalls, pfl's. I think if you are honest with yourself you'll know if you are ready.
Some instructors may wait for you to show/say that your confident & you are ready .
GL