How many hours student pilot generally have when going first solo?
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How many hours student pilot generally have when going first solo?
Hi, I am having my PPL training at the moment (every weekend part time) and now have about 20 hours under my belt, but still haven't been able to go my first solo.
I am wondering if I am kind of slow learner though I have maintained a regularly training every weekend and done my theory study at home carefully, which I have no problem about it at all. It is the flying techniques I haven't been able to completely master.
Would you mind to share with me how many hours generally a student pilot will have when he goes to first solo? If I am indeed progress slowly, I want to know if there is anything I can do to improve my learning, or if I am just in a kind of standard time, so means I am on track.
I knew the time varies and very much depends on individuals, but still appreciate if you can give me a general ideas about it.
I am wondering if I am kind of slow learner though I have maintained a regularly training every weekend and done my theory study at home carefully, which I have no problem about it at all. It is the flying techniques I haven't been able to completely master.
Would you mind to share with me how many hours generally a student pilot will have when he goes to first solo? If I am indeed progress slowly, I want to know if there is anything I can do to improve my learning, or if I am just in a kind of standard time, so means I am on track.
I knew the time varies and very much depends on individuals, but still appreciate if you can give me a general ideas about it.
This could well turn into a pissing contest but the short answer is whenever you are ready. The instructor will only sign you off when they are happy that you are safe and confident enough to command the aircraft on your own. Have you asked your instructor on any feedback on why he/she has not cut you loose yet?
I went solo after approx 8 hrs but had a bit of light aircraft experience as pax in the past. I have known other people who took in excess of 30hrs. It takes as long as it takes.
Enjoy yourself and stay safe.
I went solo after approx 8 hrs but had a bit of light aircraft experience as pax in the past. I have known other people who took in excess of 30hrs. It takes as long as it takes.
Enjoy yourself and stay safe.
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Six hours in a tiger moth, in exactly the same time as my great Grand dad. Only difference I didnt have to go to the front the next day. Dont sweat it mate, it'll come, times have changed training has become a lot more anal.
I instructed for a number of years and I think the quickest I sent someone solo was around the 8.5 hour mark and the longest was around 70 hours (had written exam issues). 90% of my students though fell somewhere in the 15 - 30 hour mark.
As stated above, whenever you are ready!! Makes no difference at the end of the day. Just enjoy the experience.
Good luck
As stated above, whenever you are ready!! Makes no difference at the end of the day. Just enjoy the experience.
Good luck
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Any time you feel confident with controls of your flight is the right time for you to solo and rely on your instructor for this one . If you screw up its on him. this is why a lot of FI's dont like sending students on solo's until they're really sure , so stick around and keep at it .
PS - chair flying really helps !
Fly safe & all the best !
PS - chair flying really helps !
Fly safe & all the best !
There would also be an element of dishonest practices going on in some training schools am sure.That being they tend to bleed you as much as possible out of you as they don't want to lose their golden goose/s:-)
There is obviously a syllabus that needs to be taught & demonstrated proficiently before anyone goes solo. There in lies the problem, what constitutes any one particular person as being ready to be let lose, it's subjective at best.
20 hrs seems reasonable to some & possibly a ripoff to others.
Ask around at yr flying school, try to find out what the typical 'let lose' hrs has been of late.
It matters none if you went solo in 4 or 8 hrs or a 100 hrs it's a goal to be achieved:-)
Wmk2
There is obviously a syllabus that needs to be taught & demonstrated proficiently before anyone goes solo. There in lies the problem, what constitutes any one particular person as being ready to be let lose, it's subjective at best.
20 hrs seems reasonable to some & possibly a ripoff to others.
Ask around at yr flying school, try to find out what the typical 'let lose' hrs has been of late.
It matters none if you went solo in 4 or 8 hrs or a 100 hrs it's a goal to be achieved:-)
Wmk2
Ive sent over 250 students first solo in my time. The target is generally around 12-15 hrs dual. best was 7.5 and i have seen a rather "mature' lady take 200+.
Trim is indeed your friend. key points are to set the attitude you want and trim it. Reduces your workload by 90% if you have it trimmed correctly. Suddenly you have all that headspace to think about where you are going.
Try this, if you can set an attitude correctly, trim it, then say to yourself, loudly at first, "check trim", momentarily open your fingers holding the yoke. if the aircraft attitude changes, you're not in trim. Re-trim. After about the 50th time, you will start doing it automatically.
"hold your girlfriend, dont choke the chicken"......gross but a good descriptor. Hold the yoke gently, just the way you would hold an attractive ...erm...partner. Softly and tenderly. If the temdons on your wrist are bulging, it means you are griping on the yoke, ....means you're out of trim.
Try it next time,let me know how this works.
Trim is indeed your friend. key points are to set the attitude you want and trim it. Reduces your workload by 90% if you have it trimmed correctly. Suddenly you have all that headspace to think about where you are going.
Try this, if you can set an attitude correctly, trim it, then say to yourself, loudly at first, "check trim", momentarily open your fingers holding the yoke. if the aircraft attitude changes, you're not in trim. Re-trim. After about the 50th time, you will start doing it automatically.
"hold your girlfriend, dont choke the chicken"......gross but a good descriptor. Hold the yoke gently, just the way you would hold an attractive ...erm...partner. Softly and tenderly. If the temdons on your wrist are bulging, it means you are griping on the yoke, ....means you're out of trim.
Try it next time,let me know how this works.
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Solo for Everyone
Me- 7:15 Victa Airtourer.
Don't be dismayed. The day happened for me in 1970 and I can see the whole of that experience today.
Ask for lots of feedback from your instructors.
As mentioned earlier the numbers vary greatly.
The day you get the Dunlops of the tarmac/grass on your own your heart shall soar with you.
p.s. Don't forget the checks !!!!!!
Don't be dismayed. The day happened for me in 1970 and I can see the whole of that experience today.
Ask for lots of feedback from your instructors.
As mentioned earlier the numbers vary greatly.
The day you get the Dunlops of the tarmac/grass on your own your heart shall soar with you.
p.s. Don't forget the checks !!!!!!
These days at ex-GAAP airports the larger flying schools seems to have about 14-16 hours of flying before solo in their syllabus. The old school system of sending guys solo in less than 10 hours seems to be out the window in an age of arse covering.
Sounds like you're not quite a natural - which is fine, but it may take a little longer to achieve your goals. Have an honest and frank discussion with your instructor/s to see where you are up to.
The longest student I ever had before they went solo was 75 hours. We had an honest discussion about possibly giving it away after 30 hours, but this pilot really wanted to go solo (but didn't fly much more after that).
Sounds like you're not quite a natural - which is fine, but it may take a little longer to achieve your goals. Have an honest and frank discussion with your instructor/s to see where you are up to.
The longest student I ever had before they went solo was 75 hours. We had an honest discussion about possibly giving it away after 30 hours, but this pilot really wanted to go solo (but didn't fly much more after that).
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If you worry about it it will take longer. Try to relax and don't over-think the actual flying. You don't say why you are learning; for the challenge and pleasure?
Remember the key to being a safe pilot is using your brains not taking to flying like a duck to water, so to speak. So it doesn't matter if you take longer than a natural flier.
Remember the key to being a safe pilot is using your brains not taking to flying like a duck to water, so to speak. So it doesn't matter if you take longer than a natural flier.
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Working at a quiet country airport with little to no waiting time, I saw on average about half the students age plus/minus a couple of hours to solo.
Working at a place like Moorabbin, where the circuit traffic can be like the Battle of Britian at times, 20-30 hours for a student in their early 20s was not uncommon.
And then there was the amount of effort an indivdual was putting in themselves. Taking notes during the debrief, preparing for the next lesson and so on and so forth.
and...
Good advice there. No need to put yourself under more pressure by adding a time limt. Think of the extra exposure you are getting to things like different weather, different amounts of traffic density etc etc.
Just enjoy.
In-cog
Working at a place like Moorabbin, where the circuit traffic can be like the Battle of Britian at times, 20-30 hours for a student in their early 20s was not uncommon.
And then there was the amount of effort an indivdual was putting in themselves. Taking notes during the debrief, preparing for the next lesson and so on and so forth.
Makes no difference at the end of the day. Just enjoy the experience.
PS - chair flying really helps !
Just enjoy.
In-cog
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Well, I am surprised to see so many replied in this an hour time. I really appreciate all your suggestions and encouragement.
The school is good and the instructor is also great to me. I knew it is myself who has not been ready for the solo. I knew the importance of trim (thank you Ozgrade3 for a detailed explanation about trim too), but sometimes will not get it right straight. I am also still a bit stressed on my arms, should be as gentle as holding "an attractive ....partner"...that is exactly it should feel like I think. Need improvement on it.
I am still working on my flare techniques, so might still need a few hours to get it right.
The reason I asked this is if I am exceptionally slow than the general, it must be something I missed or did wrong, so I need to find it out and rectify it, but from your reply, it looks I am not the fast one, but still quite general. Considering I only fly one hour a week, I do not expect I will be moving very fast, so as it is normal and on track, I will keep at it until my time comes.
Thank you guys for all the replies.
The school is good and the instructor is also great to me. I knew it is myself who has not been ready for the solo. I knew the importance of trim (thank you Ozgrade3 for a detailed explanation about trim too), but sometimes will not get it right straight. I am also still a bit stressed on my arms, should be as gentle as holding "an attractive ....partner"...that is exactly it should feel like I think. Need improvement on it.
I am still working on my flare techniques, so might still need a few hours to get it right.
The reason I asked this is if I am exceptionally slow than the general, it must be something I missed or did wrong, so I need to find it out and rectify it, but from your reply, it looks I am not the fast one, but still quite general. Considering I only fly one hour a week, I do not expect I will be moving very fast, so as it is normal and on track, I will keep at it until my time comes.
Thank you guys for all the replies.
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Much depends on the skill of your instructor. Grade 3 instructors which dominate the larger flying schools are inexperienced since most of them have only recently obtained the instructor rating directly after graduation with 150 or 200 hours with a CPL.
Because of their lack of experience it is often the case where they `hang on` to their students longer than necessary before putting them up to a senior instructor for a solo check. It is also a fact over the years that some junior instructors unfortunately also hang on to their students by flying more dual than necessary to make more money at the expense of the student.
Remember whether we accept it or not, most new flying instructors don't necessarily really want to instruct. With a basic CPL of 200 plus hours they do not have the experience to get into the Regionals or even basic IFR twin charter. So they borrow another 10K for an instructors course in the hope of employment at a flying school until such times they can move away for better paying work and build more hours. It has always been thus.
While those that deliberately hang on to their students beyond fairness are in the minority, it is the CFI of the flying school who is often at fault for not keeping his/her eye (closely mentoring) his junior instructors and making absolutely sure the student is checked by a senior instructor at regular intervals to ensure the progress of the student is satisfactory.
Then again, the student may not possess the minimum required standard to be sent solo. Some students learn fast while others take longer to reach a safe standard. This, added to grade 3 instructor inexperience to accurately assess the standard of the student's progress, can often add up to excessive hours before solo.
You are obviously worried about your personal situation otherwise you would not have posted on these pages. Don't let the situation drag on since in the end it will cost you a lot of time and wasted money. Solo flying is where you learn from experience. It is comforting to have an instructor beside you but there is a limit where more and more dual becomes counter-productive.
In your case you should take your concerns to the CFI and ask him to fly with you personally - rather than simply change instructors. If he refuses, then consider your options. If nothing else demand a grade one instructor until you are sent solo. Remember you are the customer and paying for competent flight instruction. You not a schoolboy where you have no choice of teachers.
Much also depends on your airport geographical area. Some city based flying schools have to fly a long way to the training area and this all mounts up since travel time takes up most of the session.
Given the right circumstances such as regular training sessions, experienced flying instructors, good weather and close-by training area, you should be solo between 8 to 12 hours of dual. However, under other circumstances such as that described above, you could find yourself going as much as 25 hours before solo. Serious questions should be asked if that happens regularly at any particular flying school particularly if the student is flying regularly.
Having said all that, occasionally a student turns up that for no fault of his own, simply lacks the ability to be a safe pilot no matter how patient is his instructor. In that case the problem will have been obvious very early in his dual instruction. The CFI must be informed and personally assess the student. The truth may hurt but again the student has to weigh his options.
Because of the tight training schedule at Air Force flying schools a military student falling behind would be risk being scrubbed. The fact he might have had the rotten luck to have a screaming skull military instructor (they exist in civvy flying schools too) was never taken into account.
In fact in the old Air Force days of which this Ppruner is familiar, if a student had not soloed by 12 hours it was assumed he would henceforth struggle to complete the rest of Pilots Course. He was then out on his neck. Of course, civilian flying schools would be quickly out of business if they adopted that policy. If the student has got the money then the flying school always has the time
Having said that, scrubbed Air Force pilots have often gone on to become airline pilots since they could progress at their own pace and do very well indeed.
Because of their lack of experience it is often the case where they `hang on` to their students longer than necessary before putting them up to a senior instructor for a solo check. It is also a fact over the years that some junior instructors unfortunately also hang on to their students by flying more dual than necessary to make more money at the expense of the student.
Remember whether we accept it or not, most new flying instructors don't necessarily really want to instruct. With a basic CPL of 200 plus hours they do not have the experience to get into the Regionals or even basic IFR twin charter. So they borrow another 10K for an instructors course in the hope of employment at a flying school until such times they can move away for better paying work and build more hours. It has always been thus.
While those that deliberately hang on to their students beyond fairness are in the minority, it is the CFI of the flying school who is often at fault for not keeping his/her eye (closely mentoring) his junior instructors and making absolutely sure the student is checked by a senior instructor at regular intervals to ensure the progress of the student is satisfactory.
Then again, the student may not possess the minimum required standard to be sent solo. Some students learn fast while others take longer to reach a safe standard. This, added to grade 3 instructor inexperience to accurately assess the standard of the student's progress, can often add up to excessive hours before solo.
You are obviously worried about your personal situation otherwise you would not have posted on these pages. Don't let the situation drag on since in the end it will cost you a lot of time and wasted money. Solo flying is where you learn from experience. It is comforting to have an instructor beside you but there is a limit where more and more dual becomes counter-productive.
In your case you should take your concerns to the CFI and ask him to fly with you personally - rather than simply change instructors. If he refuses, then consider your options. If nothing else demand a grade one instructor until you are sent solo. Remember you are the customer and paying for competent flight instruction. You not a schoolboy where you have no choice of teachers.
Much also depends on your airport geographical area. Some city based flying schools have to fly a long way to the training area and this all mounts up since travel time takes up most of the session.
Given the right circumstances such as regular training sessions, experienced flying instructors, good weather and close-by training area, you should be solo between 8 to 12 hours of dual. However, under other circumstances such as that described above, you could find yourself going as much as 25 hours before solo. Serious questions should be asked if that happens regularly at any particular flying school particularly if the student is flying regularly.
Having said all that, occasionally a student turns up that for no fault of his own, simply lacks the ability to be a safe pilot no matter how patient is his instructor. In that case the problem will have been obvious very early in his dual instruction. The CFI must be informed and personally assess the student. The truth may hurt but again the student has to weigh his options.
Because of the tight training schedule at Air Force flying schools a military student falling behind would be risk being scrubbed. The fact he might have had the rotten luck to have a screaming skull military instructor (they exist in civvy flying schools too) was never taken into account.
In fact in the old Air Force days of which this Ppruner is familiar, if a student had not soloed by 12 hours it was assumed he would henceforth struggle to complete the rest of Pilots Course. He was then out on his neck. Of course, civilian flying schools would be quickly out of business if they adopted that policy. If the student has got the money then the flying school always has the time
Having said that, scrubbed Air Force pilots have often gone on to become airline pilots since they could progress at their own pace and do very well indeed.
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To Ornis,
I totally agree with it, I am trying to do it though still not that natural. I knew I need to relax, will keep up on it.
I am not going to take pilot as a career, as your said, it is just for "challenge and pleasure", I do enjoy the flight, just wondering if I missed something so I am kind slow, as what I said in my previous post. I also understand it does not matter much at the end of the day. Thanks for your advice.
To in-cog-nito,
I am not in my early 20s any more and have to work full time through the week, so it might slow me down a bit in weekend. Also, I have my training in Moorabbin, it is not that bad in weekend, but it does have some waiting time.
I completely understand "it does not make any difference at the end of the day" and I am also happy to be exposed to different weather and different traffic situations while my instructor sitting beside me. Just had some 15kts crosswind circuits last Sunday in a C172, not doing great, but I was happy to experience it now.
Thank you very much for the advices too.
Try to relax and don't over-think the actual flying.
I am not going to take pilot as a career, as your said, it is just for "challenge and pleasure", I do enjoy the flight, just wondering if I missed something so I am kind slow, as what I said in my previous post. I also understand it does not matter much at the end of the day. Thanks for your advice.
To in-cog-nito,
I am not in my early 20s any more and have to work full time through the week, so it might slow me down a bit in weekend. Also, I have my training in Moorabbin, it is not that bad in weekend, but it does have some waiting time.
I completely understand "it does not make any difference at the end of the day" and I am also happy to be exposed to different weather and different traffic situations while my instructor sitting beside me. Just had some 15kts crosswind circuits last Sunday in a C172, not doing great, but I was happy to experience it now.
Thank you very much for the advices too.
A few people i've trained have found it hard to trim, one of the main reasons was they flew really ham fisted, that is clutched fist on the control which makes it really easy to overdo control movements and not be able to register that you're out of trim. I've suggested trying to just use your first 2 fingers and a thumb and it makes it a lot easier to identify when you're out of trim and sometimes helps people be a little gentler on the controls.
And as the others said don't fret too much, sometimes it depends on the instructor as well, if they're a bit more rookie they want to be 99% certain you're going to be safe whilst an older instructor with more experience will be able to tell a bit sooner when you're ready to go. Its a team effort at this point!!! enjoy it, use the dual time and ask as many questions as possible. Clearblueskyy is spot on as well, that aircraft might cost you 150-200 an hour but sitting in a chair practicing is practically free!!
And Ozgrade3, you and me must be going out with different types of womenfolk
And as the others said don't fret too much, sometimes it depends on the instructor as well, if they're a bit more rookie they want to be 99% certain you're going to be safe whilst an older instructor with more experience will be able to tell a bit sooner when you're ready to go. Its a team effort at this point!!! enjoy it, use the dual time and ask as many questions as possible. Clearblueskyy is spot on as well, that aircraft might cost you 150-200 an hour but sitting in a chair practicing is practically free!!
And Ozgrade3, you and me must be going out with different types of womenfolk