Help a newbie out? Reporting Aviation Incidents
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Help a newbie out? Reporting Aviation Incidents
Hi there
Was wondering if you could help me fill in some gaps.
I just want to know about some internal and external aviation incident reporting systems, organisations, the whole lot
For internal - lets just use Qantas - then Qantas would have a procedure in place. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. Maybe their online?
For external - Organisations like ATSB, ICAO(?) would play a part.
Are there any others?
Cheers, SN.
Was wondering if you could help me fill in some gaps.
I just want to know about some internal and external aviation incident reporting systems, organisations, the whole lot
For internal - lets just use Qantas - then Qantas would have a procedure in place. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. Maybe their online?
For external - Organisations like ATSB, ICAO(?) would play a part.
Are there any others?
Cheers, SN.
All aviation companies have internal reporting and investigation departments as part of their Safety Management Systems (which they have to have as part of their Air Operating Certificate). The information is commercially sensitive, as no one wants the press to obtain a report they don't understand and make an issue out of something which really isn't.
You can read reports from the ATSB at their website, though.
You can read reports from the ATSB at their website, though.
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Requirement for an internal reporting system
"All aviation companies have internal reporting and investigation departments as part of their Safety Management Systems (which they have to have as part of their Air Operating Certificate). "
Not so, at least not yet. At the moment only RPT operators are required to have an SMS and therefore an internal reporting system. That will change in the next 12 months or so when all "passenger transport",i.e.charter and RPT, operations will require an SMS.
Not so, at least not yet. At the moment only RPT operators are required to have an SMS and therefore an internal reporting system. That will change in the next 12 months or so when all "passenger transport",i.e.charter and RPT, operations will require an SMS.
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"Asking a question on the internet IS research"
Source: Checkboard., - Help a Newbie Out? Reporting Aviation Incidents. Retrieved May 2, 2012, from http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...incidents.html.
Source: Checkboard., - Help a Newbie Out? Reporting Aviation Incidents. Retrieved May 2, 2012, from http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...incidents.html.
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So does internal reporting and investigation come under the safety management system of airlines? Or is there a separate process for that?
My understanding at the moment is that safety management systems try and prevent accidents from happening. I was thinking that internal reporting and investigation would fall under that?
My understanding at the moment is that safety management systems try and prevent accidents from happening. I was thinking that internal reporting and investigation would fall under that?
Swiss Newbie,
The answer is not straight forward, and is airline specific.
Start with the legal obligation that the pilot in command is primarily responsible for the reporting requirements in the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003.
In part, this act, and in part the Air Navigation Act 1920 give expression to Australia complying with it obligations under ICAO Annex 13.
Some airlines have an internal reporting system for incidents and accidents (and customized forms) that, when copied to ATSB, satisfies the requirements of the TSI Act, and also satisfies the reporting requirements of a company SMS.
As a matter of interest, for some companies with international operations, the one "customized" reporting form will be set up to cover a variety of mandated incident reporting requirements. ie; The FAA have a separate bird strike reporting requirement, as distinct from a general incident and accident reporting requirements to NTSB.
In my experience, most small non-scheduled operators, who are making valiant efforts to develop SMS, just comply with the TSI Act by using the standard ATSB reporting system, and a copy of the ATSB report becomes part of the SMS record, and the basis for any corrective action under the SMS.
Some interesting legal and practical problems arise when CASA demand access to all these reports, for purposed that may run counter to the confidentiality provisions of the TSI Act, or, for that matter, the proper operation of an SMS.
Where there is no company SMS system (or no company, or a non-AOC operation) there is still the legal reporting obligation of the PIC.
Please don't take this as a comprehensive summary, it is only a suggested starting point.
Tootle pip!!
The answer is not straight forward, and is airline specific.
Start with the legal obligation that the pilot in command is primarily responsible for the reporting requirements in the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003.
In part, this act, and in part the Air Navigation Act 1920 give expression to Australia complying with it obligations under ICAO Annex 13.
Some airlines have an internal reporting system for incidents and accidents (and customized forms) that, when copied to ATSB, satisfies the requirements of the TSI Act, and also satisfies the reporting requirements of a company SMS.
As a matter of interest, for some companies with international operations, the one "customized" reporting form will be set up to cover a variety of mandated incident reporting requirements. ie; The FAA have a separate bird strike reporting requirement, as distinct from a general incident and accident reporting requirements to NTSB.
In my experience, most small non-scheduled operators, who are making valiant efforts to develop SMS, just comply with the TSI Act by using the standard ATSB reporting system, and a copy of the ATSB report becomes part of the SMS record, and the basis for any corrective action under the SMS.
Some interesting legal and practical problems arise when CASA demand access to all these reports, for purposed that may run counter to the confidentiality provisions of the TSI Act, or, for that matter, the proper operation of an SMS.
Where there is no company SMS system (or no company, or a non-AOC operation) there is still the legal reporting obligation of the PIC.
Please don't take this as a comprehensive summary, it is only a suggested starting point.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 13th May 2012 at 02:24.
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Cheers, I think I understand the relationship between the various laws (such as the Transport Safety Investigation Act + Regulation) and reporting to external agencies, as well as how the ICAO through the Chicago Convention has influenced these changes. AFAIK, there are mandatory and voluntary reporting procedures and those are outlined on the ATSB website.
What about for internal procedures?
Taking Qantas as an example, if say a Qantas pilot was involved in an incident, is there any particular process that the pilot would go through? Or am I right in saying that the pilot would just notify nominated official, as per the Act?
Also, say this wasn't a flight operations related incident, how would such a process take place in those circumstances?
Thanks for the responses! Appreciate them.
What about for internal procedures?
Taking Qantas as an example, if say a Qantas pilot was involved in an incident, is there any particular process that the pilot would go through? Or am I right in saying that the pilot would just notify nominated official, as per the Act?
Also, say this wasn't a flight operations related incident, how would such a process take place in those circumstances?
Thanks for the responses! Appreciate them.
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I was just hoping someone here would be able to clarify something.
Would the term 'safety system' be interchangeable with the phrase
'safety management system'?
Or could you say a safety system encompasses both the safety management system and quality management system.
SN
Would the term 'safety system' be interchangeable with the phrase
'safety management system'?
Or could you say a safety system encompasses both the safety management system and quality management system.
SN
.
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I was using the phrase in context, so if someone referred to an airline's safety system, would he or she be referring to an airline's safety management system?
Or would he or she be using it as an umbrella term to which the safety management system and quality management system of an airline fall under?
Or would he or she be using it as an umbrella term to which the safety management system and quality management system of an airline fall under?
Last edited by SwissNewbie; 27th May 2012 at 09:07.
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That would depend on whether the author has defined "airline safety system" and which source he or she is referring to (it doesn't seem to be a usual term).
Last edited by Armchairflyer; 27th May 2012 at 09:42. Reason: Grammar error
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Aimpoint, I've looked over your post history and you seem to have some sort of prejudice against younger people. Cut the attitude. All I asked was a question. If you don't know the answer, or don't want to answer it, there's no need for you to comment.
Also, your generalisation about me trying to avoid doing research was unwarranted. My original post related to whether someone could point me in the right direction with respect to airline materials. What I've found is that the majority of these materials can only be accessed through the airline's intranet.
As someone has already posted, these documents are not usually open to the public, so I came here looking for advice or ways in which I could access the material relating to SMS and QMS. I have posted the question on my university discussion forum and I am waiting for a response.
My sincere condolences if my question ruined your day, or has kept you in some kind of perpetual annoyance towards youths.
Nevertheless, if anyone here can help in answering the question, I would be very thankful.
Also, your generalisation about me trying to avoid doing research was unwarranted. My original post related to whether someone could point me in the right direction with respect to airline materials. What I've found is that the majority of these materials can only be accessed through the airline's intranet.
As someone has already posted, these documents are not usually open to the public, so I came here looking for advice or ways in which I could access the material relating to SMS and QMS. I have posted the question on my university discussion forum and I am waiting for a response.
My sincere condolences if my question ruined your day, or has kept you in some kind of perpetual annoyance towards youths.
Nevertheless, if anyone here can help in answering the question, I would be very thankful.
Last edited by SwissNewbie; 27th May 2012 at 09:55.
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@SwissNewbie
Regarding your original question, you might find some helpful answers in chapter 4 "Recording and reporting of safety data" of Wells & Rodrigues' "Commercial aviation safety".