20 Spitfires found in Burma
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Burying aircraft and equipment at the end of the war was very common on the islands in the Pacific.
There are many stories of the US SeaBees trenching and burying crate motors and equipment.
This article appears very suspect, first off, that after all of that searching, they have not located a single aircraft.
Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct.
The Burma government will get one plane for display at a museum, as well as half of the remaining total. DJC, a private company headed by Cundall, will get 30 per cent of the total and the Burma partner company, Shwe Taung Paw, 20 per cent.
There are many stories of the US SeaBees trenching and burying crate motors and equipment.
This article appears very suspect, first off, that after all of that searching, they have not located a single aircraft.
Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct.
The Burma government will get one plane for display at a museum, as well as half of the remaining total. DJC, a private company headed by Cundall, will get 30 per cent of the total and the Burma partner company, Shwe Taung Paw, 20 per cent.
Last edited by FlightPathOBN; 21st Oct 2012 at 19:15.
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Anyone else think this will be a big disappointment? Sixty five years buried in a rush, underground in a hot humid environment will surely have caused more than a bit of surface corrosion....
I'm still hoping to be proven wrong, though!
I'm still hoping to be proven wrong, though!
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Flightpath
"Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct."
"the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes"
Does this apply to crashed one's as well ?
And who decides who owns the buried one's ?
.
"Second, the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes, hence the breakdown of ownership does not appear to be correct."
"the aircraft are sovereign British warplanes"
Does this apply to crashed one's as well ?
And who decides who owns the buried one's ?
.
More Spitfires about to come on the War Bird market
WWII-era Spitfires to be excavated in Myanmar
Dozens of rare British Spitfire fighter planes buried in Myanmar during World War II are to be dug up under an agreement between the government and an aviation enthusiast.
The iconic single-seat aircraft are believed to have been hidden -- unassembled in crates -- by the former colonial power to prevent them falling into Japanese hands almost seven decades ago.
There could be as many as 140 of the aircraft buried in the country formerly known as Burma, according to a local geophysicist who has been involved in the search since 1999.
"In the first year, we will dig up 60 aircraft," Soe Thein told AFP, adding that work to retrieve them would start next month. "The next year in the second phase, I expect to dig up another 50."
Based on a survey of hundreds of witnesses, the team plans to dig in various locations including in Yangon, northern Kachin state and central Mandalay.
If successfully excavated, some of the Spitfires are expected to be returned to Britain, which ruled Myanmar until independence in 1948 but was temporarily forced out of much of the country in 1942 by invading Japanese forces.
"We want to strengthen relations between Britain and our country and benefit millions of people in the world who want to see Spitfires," said local businessman Htoo Htoo Zaw who is involved in the project.
The project is the result of more than a decade of searching former airforce bases in Myanmar by British farmer and aviation aficionado David Cundall using radar technology.
"I'm only a small farmer, I'm not a multi-millionaire and it has been a struggle. It took me more than 15 years but I finally found them," Cundall told British newspaper The Daily Telegraph earlier this year.
"Spitfires are beautiful aeroplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land. They saved our neck in the Battle of Britain and they should be preserved," he added.
"They were just buried there in transport crates," Cundall said. "They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition."
About 20,000 Spitfires were built by Britain from 1938-1948. The planes captured the public imagination during the Battle of Britain when the Royal Air Force prevented the German Luftwaffe from invading in 1940.
Today just a few dozen are still in flying condition.
An agreement on retrieving the historic planes was signed by a transport ministry senior official with Cundall and Htoo Htoo Zaw in the capital Naypyidaw on Tuesday.
The British government welcomed the agreement, which follows the personal intervention of Prime Minister David Cameron, who discussed the Spitfires with President Thein Sein during his visit to Myanmar earlier this year.
The signing "marks an important step towards uncovering, restoring and displaying these fighter planes, and perhaps even seeing some of the aircraft gracing the skies of Britain in the future," an embassy spokesperson said.
According to the agreement, the Myanmar government will own half of the airplanes while Cundall will take 30 percent and Htoo Htoo Zaw's company Shwe Taung Por the remaining 20 percent, Soe Thein said.
"We don't have to give the planes to the Myanmar government but will calculate the total value of the planes and give them cash. We'll still need to give a plane to the government to keep in a museum," he added.
by Park Chan-Kyong © 2012 AFP
Source : AFP
Dozens of rare British Spitfire fighter planes buried in Myanmar during World War II are to be dug up under an agreement between the government and an aviation enthusiast.
The iconic single-seat aircraft are believed to have been hidden -- unassembled in crates -- by the former colonial power to prevent them falling into Japanese hands almost seven decades ago.
There could be as many as 140 of the aircraft buried in the country formerly known as Burma, according to a local geophysicist who has been involved in the search since 1999.
"In the first year, we will dig up 60 aircraft," Soe Thein told AFP, adding that work to retrieve them would start next month. "The next year in the second phase, I expect to dig up another 50."
Based on a survey of hundreds of witnesses, the team plans to dig in various locations including in Yangon, northern Kachin state and central Mandalay.
If successfully excavated, some of the Spitfires are expected to be returned to Britain, which ruled Myanmar until independence in 1948 but was temporarily forced out of much of the country in 1942 by invading Japanese forces.
"We want to strengthen relations between Britain and our country and benefit millions of people in the world who want to see Spitfires," said local businessman Htoo Htoo Zaw who is involved in the project.
The project is the result of more than a decade of searching former airforce bases in Myanmar by British farmer and aviation aficionado David Cundall using radar technology.
"I'm only a small farmer, I'm not a multi-millionaire and it has been a struggle. It took me more than 15 years but I finally found them," Cundall told British newspaper The Daily Telegraph earlier this year.
"Spitfires are beautiful aeroplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land. They saved our neck in the Battle of Britain and they should be preserved," he added.
"They were just buried there in transport crates," Cundall said. "They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition."
About 20,000 Spitfires were built by Britain from 1938-1948. The planes captured the public imagination during the Battle of Britain when the Royal Air Force prevented the German Luftwaffe from invading in 1940.
Today just a few dozen are still in flying condition.
An agreement on retrieving the historic planes was signed by a transport ministry senior official with Cundall and Htoo Htoo Zaw in the capital Naypyidaw on Tuesday.
The British government welcomed the agreement, which follows the personal intervention of Prime Minister David Cameron, who discussed the Spitfires with President Thein Sein during his visit to Myanmar earlier this year.
The signing "marks an important step towards uncovering, restoring and displaying these fighter planes, and perhaps even seeing some of the aircraft gracing the skies of Britain in the future," an embassy spokesperson said.
According to the agreement, the Myanmar government will own half of the airplanes while Cundall will take 30 percent and Htoo Htoo Zaw's company Shwe Taung Por the remaining 20 percent, Soe Thein said.
"We don't have to give the planes to the Myanmar government but will calculate the total value of the planes and give them cash. We'll still need to give a plane to the government to keep in a museum," he added.
by Park Chan-Kyong © 2012 AFP
Source : AFP
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Everyone seems to keep talking about it and new threads pop up all the time
but now they have an agreement, when are we actually going to see something concrete as to whether they actually still exist or are just a heap of rust ?
Surely they know the level of interest, can't they stick a camera down
their to have a look instead of keeping everyone in suspense for so long ?
.
but now they have an agreement, when are we actually going to see something concrete as to whether they actually still exist or are just a heap of rust ?
Surely they know the level of interest, can't they stick a camera down
their to have a look instead of keeping everyone in suspense for so long ?
.
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More Spitfires about to come on the War Bird market
All they need for a 'restoration' (as opposed to being a 'replica') are the data plates...I'm sure they'll be in good enough nick. Bronze on the Spit I think
buried in Myanmar
Been there a long time ,hot and humid
Should be just like a fine wine
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"They were just buried there in transport crates," Cundall said. "They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition."
Waxed, wrapped in greased paper, joints tarred (I assume the joints of the crates) just does not do it for this length of time and buried deep enough to be forgotten about and undiscovered.
It's doubtful that they were intended to be retrieved at all as the circumstances at the time meant hiding them enough to ensure the Japanese didn't find them.
Cundall is plain wrong and that will be found out in time.
The preservation procedures of the time may provide protection for internals of reduction gearboxes, some engine components and the like. Airframe, flight controls and components, bearings and fuel systems are not so lucky.
I wish sincerely that I am wrong and I would like to think that there is a possibility that there could be at least ONE pristine, dare I think, AIRWORTHY example that might exist.
Even then, you would have to disassemble all sections,completely replace wiring (mandatory), spend lots of money overhauling components, engine, avionics, etc. and a minefield of compliance issues.
I hope that there will be enough bits for a complete aircraft for museum display.
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I call bullsh_t on the whole thing. Just think, the Japanese army is invading, the Brits are retreating, they are hardly going to take the time to dig nice big holes and carefully lower large crates intact into them. If I was in charge I would order them blown up, burnt, or bulldozed. Spitfires weren't the rarity then that they are now. Why leave them intact where they could well be dug up by the enemy? I hope I'm wrong and they pull the whole lot out ready to go, but I doubt they will. To me it smells of a scam to get some collector to stump up money, never to be seen again.
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Offcut,
This happened after the end of the war. It was far less expensive to bury what was on each island, than to ship it back...this happened all over the islands.
When buried, IF exposed to only fresh water and little oxygen, then preservation should be pretty good. Cathodic reactions would be the biggest issue.
This happened after the end of the war. It was far less expensive to bury what was on each island, than to ship it back...this happened all over the islands.
When buried, IF exposed to only fresh water and little oxygen, then preservation should be pretty good. Cathodic reactions would be the biggest issue.
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Early 1942, actually. Shipping 'em to a safe spot wasn't an option for various reasons.
I'm not hopeful, but there should at least be some restorable parts. The fellow above who mentioned dataplates is right on the money.
Is authorization from the UK required as well? It is with the US services; they vary in their requirements. The USN is quite "persnickity".
I'm not hopeful, but there should at least be some restorable parts. The fellow above who mentioned dataplates is right on the money.
Is authorization from the UK required as well? It is with the US services; they vary in their requirements. The USN is quite "persnickity".
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exactly rotorhead, the US claims sovereinty on ALL aircraft, so we have had little luck with recoveries, the Brits have been more passive aggressive on the issue, so it is difficult to tell...
Burying them from the enemy is one thing, disposing of them is another...
we shall see..
Burying them from the enemy is one thing, disposing of them is another...
we shall see..
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I am sure all will be revealed in just a few weeks. This has moved ahead very rapidly in just the past few months alone.
I can't really understand all this confusion about the dates they were buried.
Has the media reporting been that bad ?
I am equally amazed at the wildly differing estimates of the number of aircraft involved. Surely production and shipping records would give an indication of how many aircraft went where. Local records from the Squadrons or maintenance units should then provide details of their likely fate.
Perhaps that is why the numbers have been revised upwards.
The guys doing the digging and burying would hardly have been worried about records.
Am I correct in thinking that these shipping crates were buried by the Yanks in the closing stages of the war. That is where Mr Cundall appears to have gained his knowledge.
For those that appear to be confused by some of this history we should add that the hostilities in Asia came to an abrupt end towards the end of 1945.
Has anyone seen any factual reports from anyone who actually did the burying ?
Those guys will have a fair idea of what to expect 70 years later.
I can't really understand all this confusion about the dates they were buried.
Has the media reporting been that bad ?
I am equally amazed at the wildly differing estimates of the number of aircraft involved. Surely production and shipping records would give an indication of how many aircraft went where. Local records from the Squadrons or maintenance units should then provide details of their likely fate.
Perhaps that is why the numbers have been revised upwards.
The guys doing the digging and burying would hardly have been worried about records.
Am I correct in thinking that these shipping crates were buried by the Yanks in the closing stages of the war. That is where Mr Cundall appears to have gained his knowledge.
For those that appear to be confused by some of this history we should add that the hostilities in Asia came to an abrupt end towards the end of 1945.
Has anyone seen any factual reports from anyone who actually did the burying ?
Those guys will have a fair idea of what to expect 70 years later.
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Surely production and shipping records would give an indication of how many aircraft went where.
You could almost assume that we know exactly how many were produced to have deducted from it how many were lost in action and disposed of etc. The numbers are probably out there somewhere!
VH-XXX:
In the turmoil of war anything could happen because I know that even in peace time there is a certain amount of "Slack" in military procedures.
Years ago my unit was the benefit of just such "trading" - ammunition for steaks, BBQ cooks and trimmings for a helicopter ride and so on.....
My guess would be that the database of exactly what was produced, lost in transit, lost in training accidents, lost to enemy action is very far from complete - the obvious further variable is salvaging and scrounging. Remember the dictum "Two fires equal one flood"?" I wonder how many records were lost to enemy action? I'll bet more than one aircraft has been "rebirthed" and I'll bet more than one wreck was writen off but clandestinely returned to service. The only method of control I know regarding military equipment is to restrict access to fuel - nothing else works.
To put that another way, the ingenuity of service men knows no bounds. We could all be in for a surprise.
You could almost assume that we know exactly how many were produced to have deducted from it how many were lost in action and disposed of etc. The numbers are probably out there somewhere!
Years ago my unit was the benefit of just such "trading" - ammunition for steaks, BBQ cooks and trimmings for a helicopter ride and so on.....
My guess would be that the database of exactly what was produced, lost in transit, lost in training accidents, lost to enemy action is very far from complete - the obvious further variable is salvaging and scrounging. Remember the dictum "Two fires equal one flood"?" I wonder how many records were lost to enemy action? I'll bet more than one aircraft has been "rebirthed" and I'll bet more than one wreck was writen off but clandestinely returned to service. The only method of control I know regarding military equipment is to restrict access to fuel - nothing else works.
To put that another way, the ingenuity of service men knows no bounds. We could all be in for a surprise.
Last edited by Sunfish; 25th Nov 2012 at 21:42.