Dont think the P-40 was so bad....?
Silly Old Git
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Dont think the P-40 was so bad....?
The unsung aviator who helped saved Darwin | Article | The Punch
Apart from a few tricky electrc bits?
Apart from a few tricky electrc bits?
Last edited by tinpis; 18th Mar 2012 at 19:20.
Tinpis,
The P40 was not as bad as they made out in the article, not by a long shot.
The "Zero Myth" was still very strong at that time though.
It was dispelled throughout the Pacific when a relatively intact one was recovered in July 1942 in the Aleutians and then tested by the USAAF.
A combination of new tactics and the introduction of better equipment enabled Allied pilots to engage the Zero on more equal terms.
The lightly built Zero, as was described in the article, was shredded by the 6 heavy .50 calibre MG fire of the P40s.
It gained its good maneuverability by its very lightweight construction and lacked any armour and had no self sealing fuel tanks so was very vulnerable once hit.
The heavier US aircraft were better at absorbing battle damage and had heavier firepower and good protection.
All those pilots were very brave and Australia owes them all a debt of gratitude, our freedom at that time rested in their hands.
The P40 was not as bad as they made out in the article, not by a long shot.
The "Zero Myth" was still very strong at that time though.
It was dispelled throughout the Pacific when a relatively intact one was recovered in July 1942 in the Aleutians and then tested by the USAAF.
A combination of new tactics and the introduction of better equipment enabled Allied pilots to engage the Zero on more equal terms.
The lightly built Zero, as was described in the article, was shredded by the 6 heavy .50 calibre MG fire of the P40s.
It gained its good maneuverability by its very lightweight construction and lacked any armour and had no self sealing fuel tanks so was very vulnerable once hit.
The heavier US aircraft were better at absorbing battle damage and had heavier firepower and good protection.
All those pilots were very brave and Australia owes them all a debt of gratitude, our freedom at that time rested in their hands.
Disgustingly the RAAF did not posses one fighter in Australia out the outbreak of the Pacific War.
The P-40 was giving a good account of itself in China with the Flying Tigers as well as in the Middle East. The 49th Fighter Group launched aircraft in the defence of Darwin on 19th Feb. Our own version of "the few"...
The P-40 held its own once tactics were developed.
It is our "Spitfire"....[excuse the pun]
The P-40 was giving a good account of itself in China with the Flying Tigers as well as in the Middle East. The 49th Fighter Group launched aircraft in the defence of Darwin on 19th Feb. Our own version of "the few"...
The P-40 held its own once tactics were developed.
It is our "Spitfire"....[excuse the pun]
Grandpa Aerotart
Yup.
Not to detract from this fine gentleman's achievements but I had a family friend who flew RAAF P40s (77 Sqdn from memory) in Milne Bay against Zeros and he didn't rate the Zero at all. Reckoned you didn't have to hit them THAT hard before they burst into flames. No armour plating made it easy to kill the pilot - even for those who were not that good a shot, to which group he professed to belong.
P40 had a MUCH better roll rate via its excellent ailerons as opposed to the Zero's which needed 2 hands above 200mph and were almost immoveable much past 250mph. When you think about it a minute that is a big deal - if it takes longer to establish an angle of bank it takes longer to start a turn.
He also said the P40 had better pitch authority above 250mph, and could pull LOTS more G, so could out turn a Zero at higher speeds but as speed bled off and you could see the Zero creeping around onto your tail you'd simply roll over into a vertical spiral dive, accelerating in no time at all past 400mph, and leave the Zero miles in your wake...they simply could not follow. He was adamant that as long as you saw the Zero first, or at least in time, they couldn't touch you. He told me the ONLY time he was ever hit by a Zero it was one he hadn't seen...lots if thuds as the Zero's rounds found the back of his armour plate - he whipped the P40 up on a wingtip and heaved back and the Zero just sailed past him wings level. He finished the mission and flew home in a repairable aircraft.
Somewhere on the www is a report comparing the Spitfire to the P40 in mock combat that was done by the RAAF in Darwin around 1942/3 and below about 15000' the P40 was superior in most respects to the Spitfire. Col Pay told me 10+ years ago that the P40 had the best ailerons of any WW2 fighter - much better than his Spitfire/Mustang.
Historians (who would never have seen a P40 up close let alone flown one) have been very unkind to the P40 and built up a myth around the Zero, which, our old family friend reckoned, was a one trick pony.
Not to detract from this fine gentleman's achievements but I had a family friend who flew RAAF P40s (77 Sqdn from memory) in Milne Bay against Zeros and he didn't rate the Zero at all. Reckoned you didn't have to hit them THAT hard before they burst into flames. No armour plating made it easy to kill the pilot - even for those who were not that good a shot, to which group he professed to belong.
P40 had a MUCH better roll rate via its excellent ailerons as opposed to the Zero's which needed 2 hands above 200mph and were almost immoveable much past 250mph. When you think about it a minute that is a big deal - if it takes longer to establish an angle of bank it takes longer to start a turn.
He also said the P40 had better pitch authority above 250mph, and could pull LOTS more G, so could out turn a Zero at higher speeds but as speed bled off and you could see the Zero creeping around onto your tail you'd simply roll over into a vertical spiral dive, accelerating in no time at all past 400mph, and leave the Zero miles in your wake...they simply could not follow. He was adamant that as long as you saw the Zero first, or at least in time, they couldn't touch you. He told me the ONLY time he was ever hit by a Zero it was one he hadn't seen...lots if thuds as the Zero's rounds found the back of his armour plate - he whipped the P40 up on a wingtip and heaved back and the Zero just sailed past him wings level. He finished the mission and flew home in a repairable aircraft.
Somewhere on the www is a report comparing the Spitfire to the P40 in mock combat that was done by the RAAF in Darwin around 1942/3 and below about 15000' the P40 was superior in most respects to the Spitfire. Col Pay told me 10+ years ago that the P40 had the best ailerons of any WW2 fighter - much better than his Spitfire/Mustang.
Historians (who would never have seen a P40 up close let alone flown one) have been very unkind to the P40 and built up a myth around the Zero, which, our old family friend reckoned, was a one trick pony.
Chimbu.
Good post, lots of good info.
I suppose we should all get back onto the threads main topic which is more about the brave Aussie and US pilots who were "our few" in the country's hour of need rather than their aircraft specifics. LOL.
The next 3 yrs to 2015 will be the 70th anniversary of many WW 2 battles and major events that happened world wide.
Something we should all remember is that WW 2 was "the biggest effort in human history" and also the most written about and studied event in human history.
Good post, lots of good info.
I suppose we should all get back onto the threads main topic which is more about the brave Aussie and US pilots who were "our few" in the country's hour of need rather than their aircraft specifics. LOL.
The next 3 yrs to 2015 will be the 70th anniversary of many WW 2 battles and major events that happened world wide.
Something we should all remember is that WW 2 was "the biggest effort in human history" and also the most written about and studied event in human history.
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i have just finished an excellent book "Whispering Death: Australian Airmen in the Pacific War" by Mark Johnston which covers all these issues in great detail and contains many interviews with the people who were there and who flew the aircraft involved.
I was amazed at the efforts of RAAF pilots flying Wirraways, Hudsons, Beauforts and Buffalos against the Japanese, and gobsmacked at the number of RAAF personnel who were captured and summarily executed during the campaign.
I was amazed at the efforts of RAAF pilots flying Wirraways, Hudsons, Beauforts and Buffalos against the Japanese, and gobsmacked at the number of RAAF personnel who were captured and summarily executed during the campaign.
A top read..
Much more on the use and abuse of P40s in Oz and Java..air battles galore.
"Every Day a Nightmare" by William Bartsch.
Covers the ferry flights to Darwin and Java, fighting there and escapes from.
First raid in Darwin 19 Feb '42... mayhem.. and many fatalities.
Glover, Hughes, McMahon, Perry, Pell, Peres and Rice, etc..
"May their names liveth for evermore"
Airstrips named after Pell and Hughes, just 2 of the brave " too few"
Desperate days!
"Every Day a Nightmare" by William Bartsch.
Covers the ferry flights to Darwin and Java, fighting there and escapes from.
First raid in Darwin 19 Feb '42... mayhem.. and many fatalities.
Glover, Hughes, McMahon, Perry, Pell, Peres and Rice, etc..
"May their names liveth for evermore"
Airstrips named after Pell and Hughes, just 2 of the brave " too few"
Desperate days!
