Handswinging?
Join Date: Feb 2000
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It might be worth making the point that a three-blade prop is not something that a novice hand-propper should tackle. The next blade will come down to take your hand off real fast.
If you can tie the airplane down prior to start, preferably with two ropes (slip knot and long enough to release from the cockpit) you can avoid a runaway airplane. Chocks are not enough.
I make my assistant (if I have one) remove the keys and hold them up so I can see them prior to pulling the engine through before start.
I have watched a start on a round engine where the pilot pulled the prop backward into the compression, almost all the way through, then released it. As the engine came back in the normal direction, it reached max compression, the plugs fired and the engine ran. Lovely to watch, no effort at all.
Has anyone ever hand swung a float plane? If so, how?
If you can tie the airplane down prior to start, preferably with two ropes (slip knot and long enough to release from the cockpit) you can avoid a runaway airplane. Chocks are not enough.
I make my assistant (if I have one) remove the keys and hold them up so I can see them prior to pulling the engine through before start.
I have watched a start on a round engine where the pilot pulled the prop backward into the compression, almost all the way through, then released it. As the engine came back in the normal direction, it reached max compression, the plugs fired and the engine ran. Lovely to watch, no effort at all.
Has anyone ever hand swung a float plane? If so, how?
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Point taken Chuckles. However, I clearly remember him telling me at one time that he had previously been a LAME. 
I wasn't going to question him on it at the time. Bit late now.
I wasn't going to question him on it at the time. Bit late now.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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boofhead,
I have started a Beaver on floats following an issue with the starter switch. I stood on the cockpit steps on the starboard float and held onto the upper air inlet with my left hand - I was nicely balanced and secure, my arm naturally swung clear of the prop arc, and I could see the throttle. With a radial you get a good choice of compressions to start on - very handy considering the limited propeller arc within comfortable reach to work with.
One of the beauties of the 985 is that a gentle pull will start them once you get the mixture correct, and when they do start it is a very gradual acceleration to idle.
Floatplanes start moving forward as soon as the engine fires, however the "ground" does travels with you so you can climb back on board easily.
W
I have started a Beaver on floats following an issue with the starter switch. I stood on the cockpit steps on the starboard float and held onto the upper air inlet with my left hand - I was nicely balanced and secure, my arm naturally swung clear of the prop arc, and I could see the throttle. With a radial you get a good choice of compressions to start on - very handy considering the limited propeller arc within comfortable reach to work with.
One of the beauties of the 985 is that a gentle pull will start them once you get the mixture correct, and when they do start it is a very gradual acceleration to idle.
Floatplanes start moving forward as soon as the engine fires, however the "ground" does travels with you so you can climb back on board easily.
W
Havn't read all of the earlier posts, so someone else may have posted this. I was ploughing through the CAR's earlier today and came across these....
225 Pilots at controls
(1)The pilot in command must ensure that 1 pilot is at the controls of an aircraft from the time at which the engine or engines is or are started prior to a flight until the engine or engines is or are stopped at the termination of a flight.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(2)When, in accordance with these regulations, 2 or more pilots are required to be on board an aircraft, the pilot in command must ensure that 2 pilots remain at the controls at all times when the aircraft is taking off, landing and during turbulent conditions in flight.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) An offence against subregulation (1) or (2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code
230 Starting and running of engines
(1)A person must not:
(a) start the engine of an Australian aircraft; or
(b) permit the engine of an Australian aircraft to be run;
if it is not permitted by this regulation.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(1A) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(2)The engine may be started or run while the aircraft is inside or outside Australian territory if the control seat is occupied by an approved person or by a person who may, under Part 5, fly the aircraft.
(3)If the aircraft is an aeroplane that is having maintenance carried out on it, or that is being used for the provision of maintenance training, the engine may be started or run if the control seat is occupied:
(a) whether the aircraft is inside or outside Australian territory — by a person who:
(i) holds:
(A) an aircraft engineer licence that permits him or her to perform maintenance certification for maintenance carried out on the engine; or
(B) an airworthiness authority covering the maintenance; and
(ii) has sufficient knowledge of the aircraft’s controls and systems to ensure the starting or running does not endanger any person or damage the aircraft; or
(b) if the aircraft is outside Australian territory — by a person who:
(i) if the aircraft is in a Contracting State — may under the law of the Contracting State start or run engines of the same type in connection with the carrying out of maintenance, or the provision of maintenance training, as the case requires; or
(ii) has qualifications that are recognised by CASA as adequate for the purpose of starting or running engines of aircraft of the same type in connection with the carrying out of maintenance, or the provision of maintenance training, as the case requires
231 Manipulation of propeller
(1)In spite of regulations 225 and 230 and subregulation (2), the pilot in command of an aircraft which requires an operating crew of only one pilot may manipulate the propeller of the aircraft for the purposes of starting the aircraft if:
(a) assistance is not readily available for that purpose;
(b) adequate provision is made to prevent the aircraft moving forward; and
(c) no person is on board the aircraft.
(2)The registration holder, or operator, or the pilot in command, of an Australian aircraft must not permit a person to manipulate the propeller of the aircraft to start the engine if the registration holder, operator or pilot in command is not satisfied that the person who is to manipulate the propeller knows the correct starting procedures for the aircraft.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(3) An offence against subregulation (2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
....so there you have it.
225 Pilots at controls
(1)The pilot in command must ensure that 1 pilot is at the controls of an aircraft from the time at which the engine or engines is or are started prior to a flight until the engine or engines is or are stopped at the termination of a flight.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(2)When, in accordance with these regulations, 2 or more pilots are required to be on board an aircraft, the pilot in command must ensure that 2 pilots remain at the controls at all times when the aircraft is taking off, landing and during turbulent conditions in flight.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) An offence against subregulation (1) or (2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code
230 Starting and running of engines
(1)A person must not:
(a) start the engine of an Australian aircraft; or
(b) permit the engine of an Australian aircraft to be run;
if it is not permitted by this regulation.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(1A) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(2)The engine may be started or run while the aircraft is inside or outside Australian territory if the control seat is occupied by an approved person or by a person who may, under Part 5, fly the aircraft.
(3)If the aircraft is an aeroplane that is having maintenance carried out on it, or that is being used for the provision of maintenance training, the engine may be started or run if the control seat is occupied:
(a) whether the aircraft is inside or outside Australian territory — by a person who:
(i) holds:
(A) an aircraft engineer licence that permits him or her to perform maintenance certification for maintenance carried out on the engine; or
(B) an airworthiness authority covering the maintenance; and
(ii) has sufficient knowledge of the aircraft’s controls and systems to ensure the starting or running does not endanger any person or damage the aircraft; or
(b) if the aircraft is outside Australian territory — by a person who:
(i) if the aircraft is in a Contracting State — may under the law of the Contracting State start or run engines of the same type in connection with the carrying out of maintenance, or the provision of maintenance training, as the case requires; or
(ii) has qualifications that are recognised by CASA as adequate for the purpose of starting or running engines of aircraft of the same type in connection with the carrying out of maintenance, or the provision of maintenance training, as the case requires
231 Manipulation of propeller
(1)In spite of regulations 225 and 230 and subregulation (2), the pilot in command of an aircraft which requires an operating crew of only one pilot may manipulate the propeller of the aircraft for the purposes of starting the aircraft if:
(a) assistance is not readily available for that purpose;
(b) adequate provision is made to prevent the aircraft moving forward; and
(c) no person is on board the aircraft.
(2)The registration holder, or operator, or the pilot in command, of an Australian aircraft must not permit a person to manipulate the propeller of the aircraft to start the engine if the registration holder, operator or pilot in command is not satisfied that the person who is to manipulate the propeller knows the correct starting procedures for the aircraft.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(3) An offence against subregulation (2) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
....so there you have it.
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What a great thread, Dickie Gower also organised the 30th anviverary of YCEM and requested my Cessna 170A for the re-inactment. I had the original pilot on board, I think his name was Basil? what a great guy and a great day that was. Dick was and still is a legend.
PS I have a prop swinging endorsement in my log book from 60's, I am sure others will have as well.
Oldie.
PS I have a prop swinging endorsement in my log book from 60's, I am sure others will have as well.
Oldie.
via Lodown; ...old timers from PNG make mention about hand swinging DC-3's with a rope and a line of locals
----------------------------
And adding to the list of youtube links...
The FAA just happen to be there with a camera when the 170 just gone wild...
.
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I have a prop swinging endorsement in my log book from 60'
I guess a "prop swinging endorsement" is like a "nose wheel endorsement" as opposed to a "conventional undercarriage".
Bloody hell! No wonder I'm going sailing for a few years to get away from this ****e. I may even become a Kiwi if they'll have me.
Terrible camera work from that FAA cameraman! Three main events - the start, the pilot falling off the strut and the final crash - and the guy managed to miss ALL of them! 
Hi Frank...
Re...'Bloody hell! No wonder I'm going sailing for a few years to get away from this ****e. I may even become a Kiwi if they'll have me.'
And 'Pop into' Wanaka whilst you're there...Easter Weekend. You'll LUV IT!!
Re...'Bloody hell! No wonder I'm going sailing for a few years to get away from this ****e. I may even become a Kiwi if they'll have me.'
And 'Pop into' Wanaka whilst you're there...Easter Weekend. You'll LUV IT!!
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One more thing on hand propping: I would recommend that you turn off the fuel after priming and before you start the engine. There is enough fuel in the line to run the engine for 3 minutes and that gives you time to get around to the cockpit, settle the rpm and turn the fuel on again. If the airplane was to get away from you after you start it, it will not go far, especially if the throttle was to be too advanced, in which case the fuel would be burned up after a few seconds. This also would protect the occupant, if you had been using one to help with the controls. In the excitement it would be easy for a scared passenger to bump the throttle open.
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Originally Posted by boofhead
There is enough fuel in the line to run the engine for 3 minutes...
...will shut down in a matter of seconds if the fuel selector is turned off...
.
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi
Next shutdown turn off the fuel tap and see how long it takes...
Sounds a good idea Saigon but what is the purpose of the the restart and 'normal shutdown' (I think I've missed something)?
