SMS – Friend of Foe?.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
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SMS and a swinging di#K?
Funny that, FOI's love the flying aspect of the regulatory life (don't forget it is the blokes up the pointy end that count, nobody else in aviation is important!) and most of those blokes are crusty old has-beens who spend their day wishing they were still flying those shiny 707's and Connies!! They wouldn't know a SMS if it bit them on their weenies. In my dealings I have actually had FOI's say to me that SMS is 'just some modern crap system' and they have no interest in learning it so close to retirement!
Kharon Kharon Kharon - That money has likely been allocated to employ additional executive managers, bigger bonuses, payrises, gold pass tickets to every ICAO Montreal event, maybe even executive membership to cigar lounges where they can all sit around hypothesizing about safety, discuss international voodoo practises and measure each others weenies (Blackhand does that regularly) in the leather sofa clad library!!
I agree. If CASA can't implement its reg reform program in 23 years, how can we believe that any of them can or could implement an SMS or any other system for that matter!!
Mind you, the North Queensland CASA regionals are good at implementing bullying, intimidation, thinly veiled threats and other such methods of burning industry trust and respect, they are very skilled indeed.
We could spend some of the newly minted 89 million and hire one or two real experts and do a 10 day course, you know a training course of some value which would provide a measurable safety outcome.
Selcal - I'd hazard a guess that there are even fewer CASA inspectors who have implemented a SMS and have a corresponding pragmatic approach!
Mind you, the North Queensland CASA regionals are good at implementing bullying, intimidation, thinly veiled threats and other such methods of burning industry trust and respect, they are very skilled indeed.
Last edited by gobbledock; 30th Jan 2012 at 11:58.
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Told you GD.
GD - Mind you, the North Queensland CASA regionals are good at implementing bullying, intimidation, thinly veiled threats and other such methods of burning industry trust and respect, they are very skilled indeed.
What, no pig pix, I've grown quite fond of them.
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Sorry Kharon, no pig pics. All the execs are overseas at present and I didn't get invited, funny that? And even if I did get an invite I couldnt afford the business class fares and 5 star accommodation. So I will wait til they all go to another Australian gig (which you, myself and Blackhand pay for) and I will endeavor to snap them lined up at the trough, knee deep in perks, goodies and taxpayer funded luxuries and then I will post the pic. Might even catch them in a conga line makin bacon?
Hell, I had actually staked out the location of their last Regulatory Reform Think Tank but I gave up waiting about 20 years ago, no action whatsoever! Go figure!
Hell, I had actually staked out the location of their last Regulatory Reform Think Tank but I gave up waiting about 20 years ago, no action whatsoever! Go figure!
Join Date: May 2010
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sms, casa and ICAO audit
Have been into the "Books" again.
From the following ICAO report into casa in 2008 [http://www2.icao.int/en/ism/istars/p...CSA_AUS_En.pdf ]
The "ICAO Universal Safety Oversight Audit Programme" - FINAL REPORT ON THE SAFETY OVERSIGHT AUDIT OF THE CIVIL AVIATION SYSTEM OF AUSTRALIA
8. FOLLOW-UP ACTION
8.1 In accordance with the MOU agreed to between Australia and ICAO, Australia submitted an action plan on 29 August 2008 as well as comments and updates to the action plan on 28 October, 12 November, and 4 December 2008. The action plan submitted was reviewed by the Safety Oversight Audit (SOA) Section and was found to fully address most of the findings and recommendations contained in this report. The proposed action plan, including comments and clarifications provided by the State, is attached as Appendix 3 to this report. Comments by ICAO on each corrective action are found in Appendix 1 to this report.
Well where is it up too Mr casa????
From the following ICAO report into casa in 2008 [http://www2.icao.int/en/ism/istars/p...CSA_AUS_En.pdf ]
The "ICAO Universal Safety Oversight Audit Programme" - FINAL REPORT ON THE SAFETY OVERSIGHT AUDIT OF THE CIVIL AVIATION SYSTEM OF AUSTRALIA
8. FOLLOW-UP ACTION
8.1 In accordance with the MOU agreed to between Australia and ICAO, Australia submitted an action plan on 29 August 2008 as well as comments and updates to the action plan on 28 October, 12 November, and 4 December 2008. The action plan submitted was reviewed by the Safety Oversight Audit (SOA) Section and was found to fully address most of the findings and recommendations contained in this report. The proposed action plan, including comments and clarifications provided by the State, is attached as Appendix 3 to this report. Comments by ICAO on each corrective action are found in Appendix 1 to this report.
Well where is it up too Mr casa????
Last edited by Up-into-the-air; 7th Mar 2012 at 01:57. Reason: can't spell.
Friend for a irresponsible operator.
Foe for a pilot who doesn't get off working exhausted. I feel that CAO 48 is ridiculously restrictive, but now they have gone to the other extreme.
Foe for a pilot who doesn't get off working exhausted. I feel that CAO 48 is ridiculously restrictive, but now they have gone to the other extreme.
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BARS – on the window ?.
Serious question here, no messing about. I have now had 3 experiences with the BARS audit system and for ease of use, correction and acquittal I have to say it feels to me 'skewed', clumsy and somehow, just not quite right.
There appears to be no flexibility; does anyone else find it's a another one size fits all, blunt instrument and word feast which seems to decide in "Green , Amber or Red" terms if an operation is sound ?.
Definitely not casting nasturtiums on a honest attempt to make thing better, but some of the 'check items' are really fluffy and not remotely related to 'practical' solutions and appear quite esoteric when taken in isolation. (Do East West oriented paper clips relate to CFIT). etc.
If this system which was supposed to be 'the bees knees' for smaller operators is to be adopted by the 'Big end' of the contract world perhaps some considered, sensible industry comment could ease the pain of 'yet another' mindless box ticking exercise and produce some 'real value' measurable safety issues.
Only my (in this case humble) opinion of course, but the question stands none the less for that.
There appears to be no flexibility; does anyone else find it's a another one size fits all, blunt instrument and word feast which seems to decide in "Green , Amber or Red" terms if an operation is sound ?.
Definitely not casting nasturtiums on a honest attempt to make thing better, but some of the 'check items' are really fluffy and not remotely related to 'practical' solutions and appear quite esoteric when taken in isolation. (Do East West oriented paper clips relate to CFIT). etc.
If this system which was supposed to be 'the bees knees' for smaller operators is to be adopted by the 'Big end' of the contract world perhaps some considered, sensible industry comment could ease the pain of 'yet another' mindless box ticking exercise and produce some 'real value' measurable safety issues.
Only my (in this case humble) opinion of course, but the question stands none the less for that.
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CAO 48
Sorry - this was supposed to the first post - oh well. 
It's a tough one, discussed this with lots of folks and almost every man has a different opinion.
Should a FDP system be built into the SMS ?; ignore the CAO for a moment and try to devolve a system which satisfies everyone's agenda.
Individual pilots vary so much in 'what' and 'when' makes them fatigued. The 'job' goes on around the clock so there is little that can be done to effect change in that department.
In defence of CAO 48 when weighed against the FAA/CAA/NZ/PNG rules it's not too bad (as a fatigue management tool). The 'penalty' clauses, particularly for GA charter operations with sensible application from CASA and the company provide a fair compromise between a long hard day and operational requirements.
In 'real' life the most open to abuse system is the FAID, one operator springs to mind where the drivers got a flogging on a regular basis and stayed 'legal', despite being fatigued.
If the 'solution' was built into a SMS on a micro level (per route/ flight/ sector basis) it's doubtful that it would beat human nature and that may well be where the problem lays.
Handing over.
Ejector - Foe for a pilot who doesn't get off working exhausted. I feel that CAO 48 is ridiculously restrictive, but now they have gone to the other extreme.
Should a FDP system be built into the SMS ?; ignore the CAO for a moment and try to devolve a system which satisfies everyone's agenda.
Individual pilots vary so much in 'what' and 'when' makes them fatigued. The 'job' goes on around the clock so there is little that can be done to effect change in that department.
In defence of CAO 48 when weighed against the FAA/CAA/NZ/PNG rules it's not too bad (as a fatigue management tool). The 'penalty' clauses, particularly for GA charter operations with sensible application from CASA and the company provide a fair compromise between a long hard day and operational requirements.
In 'real' life the most open to abuse system is the FAID, one operator springs to mind where the drivers got a flogging on a regular basis and stayed 'legal', despite being fatigued.
If the 'solution' was built into a SMS on a micro level (per route/ flight/ sector basis) it's doubtful that it would beat human nature and that may well be where the problem lays.
Handing over.
Last edited by Kharon; 7th Mar 2012 at 21:02. Reason: RTFT -B4 send.
