Pilot standards decreasing?
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Pilot standards decreasing?
OK so this is more a whinge than anything, but its also indicative of the decreasing standards or airmanship of pilots in general.
I work in a tower in Australia. Over the last 12 months, I am appalled at the level of airmanship displayed by lighty pilots (although RPT operators are far from exempt).
I cannot count the amount of times that someone has called for taxi with an obscure destination, and when being asked what track that is, the usual reply is "standby, the GPS isn't up yet"!
Or even worse, get airborne, spearing off at 90 degrees (or greater) than the expected track, when questioned where they were going and given the appropriate track, reply " GPS must be wrong"!
Makes me wonder what would happen without intervention..
(See Dick, thats why we get departure reports)
Is not basic navigation still being taught? You know, compass/clock/landmarks?
How the hell do you jump into an aircraft and have NO idea on your heading? This to me indicates that maybe the fuel planning is not appropriate either...
Are licences too easy to get these days? I know it wasn't when i got mine. And i know i don't get into an aircraft without having worked out a full flight plan...
And don't even get me started on the problem of not knowing if they are south west or south east of a position..
Anyone else finding the same issues?
I work in a tower in Australia. Over the last 12 months, I am appalled at the level of airmanship displayed by lighty pilots (although RPT operators are far from exempt).
I cannot count the amount of times that someone has called for taxi with an obscure destination, and when being asked what track that is, the usual reply is "standby, the GPS isn't up yet"!
Or even worse, get airborne, spearing off at 90 degrees (or greater) than the expected track, when questioned where they were going and given the appropriate track, reply " GPS must be wrong"!
Makes me wonder what would happen without intervention..(See Dick, thats why we get departure reports)
Is not basic navigation still being taught? You know, compass/clock/landmarks?
How the hell do you jump into an aircraft and have NO idea on your heading? This to me indicates that maybe the fuel planning is not appropriate either...
Are licences too easy to get these days? I know it wasn't when i got mine. And i know i don't get into an aircraft without having worked out a full flight plan...
And don't even get me started on the problem of not knowing if they are south west or south east of a position..
Anyone else finding the same issues?
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I thought it was a requirement on the flight notification submission that the destination be recorded as either a lat/long or a bearing distance. If the notification isn't being submitted, then don't issue a clearance. If the notification is incomplete, then what are Flightwatch doing when the plan comes through full of gaps? Or don't they care because it's VFR?
Chances are the drongos you've been talking about have been flying for years. Some of the worst pilots I've flown with have been doing it for a long time and become complacent. The newer guys are likely to still be excited about flying and soak up everything they can about it. It may be more of a question of their airmanship (and ability to function as a human being) rather than standards dropping overall. Chances are though that some things are not being emphasized during training any more due to time pressures, lack of instructor experience, or other 'priorities' such as TEM training and stabilised approaches.
If old mate in his 182 screws up a departure, nothing happens - no one is there to check or train. If ATC or an RPT pilot screw up, their job is potentially gone or systems are in place to try to solve the mistake.
Chances are the drongos you've been talking about have been flying for years. Some of the worst pilots I've flown with have been doing it for a long time and become complacent. The newer guys are likely to still be excited about flying and soak up everything they can about it. It may be more of a question of their airmanship (and ability to function as a human being) rather than standards dropping overall. Chances are though that some things are not being emphasized during training any more due to time pressures, lack of instructor experience, or other 'priorities' such as TEM training and stabilised approaches.
If old mate in his 182 screws up a departure, nothing happens - no one is there to check or train. If ATC or an RPT pilot screw up, their job is potentially gone or systems are in place to try to solve the mistake.
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thought it was a requirement on the flight notification submission
And it's unfortunately not a requirement to submit a plan.. (Not a class C tower here). How they handle their own SAR is up to them.
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Bugger.....what have I done this time? 
Seriously, I do not think there has been a time where I have departed a towered aerodrome and not made a tiny small error, such as take up a heading of 90 degrees out of TL, and while changing frequencies you roar through a change in wind and while the continued turn plus the result of bouncing through a bunch of turbulence you look back at the heading and its like 120
, in less than a blink of an eye. The resultant track was probably what the ATC wanted, but you quickly realise how you could have performed better.
Or the other day, cleared to leave CTA on descent and soon to be but not quite into G I decide to TELL ATC I am tracking to the Echo Charlie waypoint........rather than request it
, naughty Jaba getting ahead of himself.
So I do not think there is a day where any of us could not improve our game. As to the blatent ones you refer to.......well we seem to be keeping these folk in the gene pool too long.
Seriously, I do not think there has been a time where I have departed a towered aerodrome and not made a tiny small error, such as take up a heading of 90 degrees out of TL, and while changing frequencies you roar through a change in wind and while the continued turn plus the result of bouncing through a bunch of turbulence you look back at the heading and its like 120
, in less than a blink of an eye. The resultant track was probably what the ATC wanted, but you quickly realise how you could have performed better.Or the other day, cleared to leave CTA on descent and soon to be but not quite into G I decide to TELL ATC I am tracking to the Echo Charlie waypoint........rather than request it
, naughty Jaba getting ahead of himself.So I do not think there is a day where any of us could not improve our game. As to the blatent ones you refer to.......well we seem to be keeping these folk in the gene pool too long.
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ATC are far from exempt.
They give us all sorts of instructions which cause no end of grief on the flight deck.
Most of the time when there is a stuff up, it's because the STARs been cancelled, the runway has been changed and we are high and fast, or we are slowed down, sped up, held, vectored, twisted, turned.
ATC are usually the major threat, this results in most of the errors I have witnessed in terminal areas.
In fact going into class G ports without ATC interference, while organizing your own separation results in more movements and less stress. The more people you deal with, the longer everything takes.
They give us all sorts of instructions which cause no end of grief on the flight deck.
Most of the time when there is a stuff up, it's because the STARs been cancelled, the runway has been changed and we are high and fast, or we are slowed down, sped up, held, vectored, twisted, turned.
ATC are usually the major threat, this results in most of the errors I have witnessed in terminal areas.
In fact going into class G ports without ATC interference, while organizing your own separation results in more movements and less stress. The more people you deal with, the longer everything takes.
Maybe it's time for a bit of check and training Jaba, 
. I can give it to you later this month.
In all seriousness though, I agree hugely with what CrankyATC is saying. I see and hear a big lack of airmanship every time I go flying. What scares me the most though, is some of the private pilots you hear getting around IFR. I've always been of the opinion that if you hold an instrument rating of any sort, then you should at least be of the same level of competency as a CPL holder. Yet some of the one's I hear, makes you wonder if they even know what they're doing! That said, sometimes you hear CPL holders who sound more like student pilots....
Ultimately, I think it comes down to 3 things. The level of experience of your instructors, increasing complacency with pilots who have been flying for years, undergo no formal check and training and think they are fine, and over reliance on technology.
morno
. I can give it to you later this month.In all seriousness though, I agree hugely with what CrankyATC is saying. I see and hear a big lack of airmanship every time I go flying. What scares me the most though, is some of the private pilots you hear getting around IFR. I've always been of the opinion that if you hold an instrument rating of any sort, then you should at least be of the same level of competency as a CPL holder. Yet some of the one's I hear, makes you wonder if they even know what they're doing! That said, sometimes you hear CPL holders who sound more like student pilots....
Ultimately, I think it comes down to 3 things. The level of experience of your instructors, increasing complacency with pilots who have been flying for years, undergo no formal check and training and think they are fine, and over reliance on technology.
morno
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Simple laziness.
Treat them to a stern request for further information; make them wait for the clearance, be direct, stick to procedures and insist on the correct information being provided. They just need a wake-up call and some minor embarrassment.
Times are a changing though and I'd expect more of this as GPS's become more affordable for the masses. You get a lot more info when you are using a modern GPS, but you know far less about other things that are important to others. Just thinking about that, I can tell you I'm over a mountain range in cloud, crossing a river, my TAS and groundspeed, but I can't easily tell you how many miles I am from my departure point! (without measuring on the screen)
Treat them to a stern request for further information; make them wait for the clearance, be direct, stick to procedures and insist on the correct information being provided. They just need a wake-up call and some minor embarrassment.
Times are a changing though and I'd expect more of this as GPS's become more affordable for the masses. You get a lot more info when you are using a modern GPS, but you know far less about other things that are important to others. Just thinking about that, I can tell you I'm over a mountain range in cloud, crossing a river, my TAS and groundspeed, but I can't easily tell you how many miles I am from my departure point! (without measuring on the screen)
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Maybe it's time for a bit of check and training Jaba, 
. I can give it to you later this month.
. I can give it to you later this month.
.........I hear you are a tough bastard! 
Can be, but I'm also easily bribed with a beer later on, 
.
.
.........I wouldn't want to be an ATC'er for all the tea in China!!!! That job yr welcome to guys/gals
Trying to make EVERYBODY happy coming in & out of a drome would be the hardest thing known to mankind, we pilots are a soft lot at times You know what they say, flying is essentially boredom interrupted by a few scary moments taking off & ldg
As for poor airmanship? it simply doesn't exist these days, or at best it's a rarity. Ya can't 'teach' Airmanship really it's acquired as experience is gained.
Simply put it's my belief that getting a pilots license is too easy, money buys almost anything! It's more the checking of a license holder that is lacking.Airline pilots are the most checked/regulated lot out there but they still use the same sky as a pvt pilot does who rarely flies from one BFR to another.
Where damn lucky that Oz is a BIG SKY place & few fly over it compared to Europe for Eg....phew !!!!
Wmk2
P.S............'Jabadabadoo' there's no hope for you just stay out there way outback where you can do no harm to others
Trying to make EVERYBODY happy coming in & out of a drome would be the hardest thing known to mankind, we pilots are a soft lot at times You know what they say, flying is essentially boredom interrupted by a few scary moments taking off & ldg As for poor airmanship? it simply doesn't exist these days, or at best it's a rarity. Ya can't 'teach' Airmanship really it's acquired as experience is gained.
Simply put it's my belief that getting a pilots license is too easy, money buys almost anything! It's more the checking of a license holder that is lacking.Airline pilots are the most checked/regulated lot out there but they still use the same sky as a pvt pilot does who rarely flies from one BFR to another.
Where damn lucky that Oz is a BIG SKY place & few fly over it compared to Europe for Eg....phew !!!!
Wmk2
P.S............'Jabadabadoo' there's no hope for you just stay out there way outback where you can do no harm to others
......or you could pick up a map.
Sounds like more and more people are forgetting that a GPS is a navaid, and that it is the pilot in command who navigates.
Sounds like more and more people are forgetting that a GPS is a navaid, and that it is the pilot in command who navigates.
Bloody hell mate, radical stuff!!
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P.S............'Jabadabadoo' there's no hope for you just stay out there way outback where you can do no harm to others
J
Bit like the CTAF(R) call, all stations XYZ inbound.
The RPT call's up and ask's XYZ which direction he is inbound from , level and estimate for the field.
XYZ replies ah, ah um ah inbound and is now 67 gps.
XYZ that's 6.7 gps ah ah um inbound.
RPT now lined up ask's XYZ to confirm the direction they are inbound from, level and eta.
Minutes go by.
RPT asks again for XYZ'S postion relative the field, level and estimate.
A few more minutes tick by.
RPT asks again for the postion of XYZ.
XYZ replies 40 gps now to Timbuktoo.
RPT asks if they are still inbound to this location?
XYZ replies standby, ah ah ah um we are maintaining ah ah um um below 5500 and now 38 gps to run to Timbucktoo.
RPT replies you are now overflying this location and maintaining 5500 and tracking to Timbuktoo, confirm?
Minutes go by.
XYZ replies standby, ah ah um um say again?
RPT ask's XYZ are you North or South of aerodrome X?
XYZ replies ah um
RPT ask's if XYZ is maintaining 5500 still?
XYZ replies ah ah um standby.
XYZ is cruising at 3500 and is now overhead the field and tracking north.
RPT now departs into the wild blue yonder.
Pilot of XYZ thinks to himself what a pack of wankers them RPT pilots are!!
Looks like you live a sheltered life CrankyATC, come and spend some time octa.
The RPT call's up and ask's XYZ which direction he is inbound from , level and estimate for the field.
XYZ replies ah, ah um ah inbound and is now 67 gps.
XYZ that's 6.7 gps ah ah um inbound.
RPT now lined up ask's XYZ to confirm the direction they are inbound from, level and eta.
Minutes go by.
RPT asks again for XYZ'S postion relative the field, level and estimate.
A few more minutes tick by.
RPT asks again for the postion of XYZ.
XYZ replies 40 gps now to Timbuktoo.
RPT asks if they are still inbound to this location?
XYZ replies standby, ah ah ah um we are maintaining ah ah um um below 5500 and now 38 gps to run to Timbucktoo.
RPT replies you are now overflying this location and maintaining 5500 and tracking to Timbuktoo, confirm?
Minutes go by.
XYZ replies standby, ah ah um um say again?
RPT ask's XYZ are you North or South of aerodrome X?
XYZ replies ah um
RPT ask's if XYZ is maintaining 5500 still?
XYZ replies ah ah um standby.
XYZ is cruising at 3500 and is now overhead the field and tracking north.
RPT now departs into the wild blue yonder.
Pilot of XYZ thinks to himself what a pack of wankers them RPT pilots are!!
Looks like you live a sheltered life CrankyATC, come and spend some time octa.
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Taxi via Bravo and then at Golf cross Runway 26 left then turn right and at Hotel 6 cross runway 26 right and then taxi to the southern apron.