Ridiculous Hire Pricing
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Ridiculous Hire Pricing
Possibly a bit off topic...
But what on earth justifies ridiculously high aircraft hire rates in Australia? I just inquired at a flying school in QLD about the possibility of getting some PA28-200R time to complete my NVFR rating. Quoted $495 an hour dual.....
As a New Zealander, I'm not sure what to think. Anybody know cheaper places, or is this about the Australian norm?
But what on earth justifies ridiculously high aircraft hire rates in Australia? I just inquired at a flying school in QLD about the possibility of getting some PA28-200R time to complete my NVFR rating. Quoted $495 an hour dual.....
As a New Zealander, I'm not sure what to think. Anybody know cheaper places, or is this about the Australian norm?
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It's been a long time since I hired an aircraft, but have been looking around recently, that looks about $100-150 to high to me!
I'd have a good look around the net for comaritive prices, like this for example.
Cheers, HH.
I'd have a good look around the net for comaritive prices, like this for example.
Cheers, HH.
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Sounds like Archerfield. 1) You're paying for the location (AF being an expensive place to operate from). 2) Although I don't speak for myself (because cost is of huge importance), paying an extra (say) $100 per hour for the quality of instruction/service may in fact save you money in the long run.
At a nearby operator to the school that I think you have been to, you can buy 100 hours in a C172 and still not have your GFPT. That, to me, is more criminal than charging a premium price for a premium product.
At a nearby operator to the school that I think you have been to, you can buy 100 hours in a C172 and still not have your GFPT. That, to me, is more criminal than charging a premium price for a premium product.
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But what on earth justifies ridiculously high aircraft hire rates in Australia?
But aircraft owners and operators are free to charge whatever they wish, just as you a free to pay what they ask - or not!
The marketplace will generally sort this out.
I once paid $400/hr for a C172RG solo - but only once! The operator didn't last long.
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$150 per hour for a 172 is a bloody good deal
One of the reasons I no longer go flying is the ludicrously high cost of hiring an aircraft. The aero club where I was flying, at Redcliffe, now charge $225 p/h private hire for a 172 (my weapon of choice). And that's one of the better deals around Brisbane.
An hour doesnt get you to far either, say a bit of a run up north to Noosa and back. Ad on charts, ERSA, ASIC (if you need one), medical and suddenly it's a $500 day.
As much as I'd love to still have my monthly fly, I can no longer justify the cost.
One of the reasons I no longer go flying is the ludicrously high cost of hiring an aircraft. The aero club where I was flying, at Redcliffe, now charge $225 p/h private hire for a 172 (my weapon of choice). And that's one of the better deals around Brisbane.
An hour doesnt get you to far either, say a bit of a run up north to Noosa and back. Ad on charts, ERSA, ASIC (if you need one), medical and suddenly it's a $500 day.
As much as I'd love to still have my monthly fly, I can no longer justify the cost.
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That does seem a bit much...
Some places look at what "next door" is charging and start the race to the bottom.
Some places calculate their costs and add a profit margin to make it worthwhile.
If people ask me for a discount, I tell them if they could go to the hangar and negotiate a chaeaper labour rate just for the time they have flown, same with the refuellers, the airport mamagers, the controllers, the insurance company etc, then we can talk about it. Otherwise, they can look for "cheap" flying elsewhere.
Isn't it funny though, how many CPL wannabees want "Cheap" flying, then when they get a job grumble about the pay rates.
Some places look at what "next door" is charging and start the race to the bottom.
Some places calculate their costs and add a profit margin to make it worthwhile.
If people ask me for a discount, I tell them if they could go to the hangar and negotiate a chaeaper labour rate just for the time they have flown, same with the refuellers, the airport mamagers, the controllers, the insurance company etc, then we can talk about it. Otherwise, they can look for "cheap" flying elsewhere.
Isn't it funny though, how many CPL wannabees want "Cheap" flying, then when they get a job grumble about the pay rates.
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Absolutely nothing!
But aircraft owners and operators are free to charge whatever they wish, just as you a free to pay what they ask - or not!
The marketplace will generally sort this out.
I once paid $400/hr for a C172RG solo - but only once! The operator didn't last long.
But aircraft owners and operators are free to charge whatever they wish, just as you a free to pay what they ask - or not!
The marketplace will generally sort this out.
I once paid $400/hr for a C172RG solo - but only once! The operator didn't last long.
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As someone who owns a 30 year old SE aircraft, fixed pitch prop and uncarraige that is used for ~ 400 hours a year freight charter, I am barely breaking even at $240/hr wet hire rate inc GST... due primarily to increasing maintenance costs/unscheduled maintenance.
$150/hr for a C172 is a bargain but I think not so sustainable in the long run - at least on in my aircraft ownership experience.
$150/hr for a C172 is a bargain but I think not so sustainable in the long run - at least on in my aircraft ownership experience.
So true, CFI, so true.
Ditto for the travelling public, who want to fly at a date and time of their choice on a flight just for them alone (not one of the standard scenics, oh no, they are not just ANYBODY), but then only want to pay Low Cost Carrier prices.
Champagne tastes, beer budget.....
Ditto for the travelling public, who want to fly at a date and time of their choice on a flight just for them alone (not one of the standard scenics, oh no, they are not just ANYBODY), but then only want to pay Low Cost Carrier prices.
Champagne tastes, beer budget.....
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C172 (calculated on 100 hours pa)
Fuel FPL @ 33lph = $66
Insurance @ $3500 = $35
100 Hrly @ $2500 = $25
50 Hrly @ 600 = $12
Hangar & Parking Charges = $10
Total = $148 per hour, only the insurance & hangarage cost reduces with increased hours, figures don't include depreciation, interest, wear & tear etc., Not hard to work out why it costs so much ......
Fuel FPL @ 33lph = $66
Insurance @ $3500 = $35
100 Hrly @ $2500 = $25
50 Hrly @ 600 = $12
Hangar & Parking Charges = $10
Total = $148 per hour, only the insurance & hangarage cost reduces with increased hours, figures don't include depreciation, interest, wear & tear etc., Not hard to work out why it costs so much ......
C172 (calculated on 100 hours pa)
Fuel FPL @ 33lph = $66
Insurance @ $3500 = $35
100 Hrly @ $2500 = $25
50 Hrly @ 600 = $12
Hangar & Parking Charges = $10
Total = $148 per hour, only the insurance & hangarage cost reduces with increased hours, figures don't include depreciation, interest, wear & tear etc., Not hard to work out why it costs so much ......
12th Sep 2011 16:26
Fuel FPL @ 33lph = $66
Insurance @ $3500 = $35
100 Hrly @ $2500 = $25
50 Hrly @ 600 = $12
Hangar & Parking Charges = $10
Total = $148 per hour, only the insurance & hangarage cost reduces with increased hours, figures don't include depreciation, interest, wear & tear etc., Not hard to work out why it costs so much ......
12th Sep 2011 16:26
Around $200/hr give or take $20 depending on age/quality (N vs. R model) sounds fair.
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Probably makes his money through instructors. Guys working for free on that 100hr supervision period and charges them out at $50 an hour.
Seen that a lot of times.
Seen that a lot of times.
Or of course you can buy into a syndicate and enjoy much cheaper flying and experiance the benefit of part ownership which usually means better looked after aircraft as flying training by students doesn't knock the hell out of it.
Do your homework though not all syndicates are well run.
Do your homework though not all syndicates are well run.
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Probably makes his money through instructors. Guys working for free on that 100hr supervision period and charges them out at $50 an hour.
Seen that a lot of times.
Seen that a lot of times.
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I'ts best to shop around. There are so many flying schools around/aero clubs.
From my experience, country aero clubs tend to be better priced due to the fact that they are not at airfields which charge a fortune for landing fee's ect.
The airfields that tend to be close to major cities (prime real estate potential) will always be expensive. It's not the operators fault.
Also NEVER pay up front!!!!!!
Move On...
From my experience, country aero clubs tend to be better priced due to the fact that they are not at airfields which charge a fortune for landing fee's ect.
The airfields that tend to be close to major cities (prime real estate potential) will always be expensive. It's not the operators fault.
Also NEVER pay up front!!!!!!
Move On...
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FYI insurance of $85K aircraft for non-ab-initio training plus freight charter is $4100 @ 1% excess.
Parking at Jandakot on hard stand is $2050 per annum.
It's the unscheduled maintenance that hurts.... $7K 100 hourlies aren't fun. Labour now $110 inc GST for maintenance....
Parking at Jandakot on hard stand is $2050 per annum.
It's the unscheduled maintenance that hurts.... $7K 100 hourlies aren't fun. Labour now $110 inc GST for maintenance....