Katherine Aviation. A sinking ship?
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The owner of this outfit has been a staunch unionist - unwilling to budge on certified agreement negotiations at his previous employment, allowing them to flounder for years.......and yet.....
Now he appears to be paying people rubbish and requiring them to sell themselves and their time for next to nothing.
Now he appears to be paying people rubbish and requiring them to sell themselves and their time for next to nothing.
Bloody hilarious.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Just a suggestion; Rather than complain about the problem here, has anyone given any thought to referring it to 'the appropriate authorities?'
The Appropriate Authorities are only interested in hearing from someone who works, or has worked for the company in question, and who has enough paperwork to back up the claim for underpayment.
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*Rate of pay $19/hr
The owner of this outfit has been a staunch unionist - unwilling to budge on certified agreement negotiations at his previous employment, allowing them to flounder for years.......and yet.....
Then there is obviously a smell of sulphur in the air and some scuffed out chalk pentagrams on the floor
... seriously those are dreadful conditions. I thought the entertainment industry screwed people over and spat them out but these are worse, particularly the 'no second job' clause. If you're 'free of employement' why is working a second job a problem? Why is it even their business? Terry Pratchett, 'Maskerade':
'“The money in the chorus isn’t very good, is it?!” she said.
“No.” It was less than you’d get for scrubbing floors. The reason was that, when you advertised a dirty floor, hundreds of hopefuls didn’t turn up'.
If people are dumb enough to work for it, bastards will keep offering it. To quote my middle-aged spinster building manager; It Shouldn't Be Allowed.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 2nd Sep 2011 at 13:16.
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Simple fix to said problem:
LEAVE.
There are enough jobs out there to move onto. Some Darwin based companies are even having candidates not show up to interviews. Unheard of. Chartair are willing to pay drivers $65k or something to fly a 402 in Alice. Supply and demand?
Operators that arnt willing to look after their people deserve them to leave quickly, the reputation will get around, and that will be the end of them.
For god's sake... grow a backbone.
There are enough jobs out there to move onto. Some Darwin based companies are even having candidates not show up to interviews. Unheard of. Chartair are willing to pay drivers $65k or something to fly a 402 in Alice. Supply and demand?
Operators that arnt willing to look after their people deserve them to leave quickly, the reputation will get around, and that will be the end of them.
For god's sake... grow a backbone.
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"The Appropriate Authorities are only interested in hearing from someone who works, or has worked for the company in question, and who has enough paperwork to back up the claim for underpayment."
Which authority exactly are you referring too? I can tell you from recent experience with the "Fair Work Ombudsmen" that they are just playing "Window dressing" games... There is no "authority" that cares... Just the other day I spent over 4 hours chasing an industrial relations matter up with the ombudsmen (Under payment, breaking terms and conditions of agreement etc etc"... they seem to be geared towards making people go away... My comment to them... "I am not an IR expert... that is why I am asking you"... their responce... "???"...
Sadly most people seem to be unaware of this.
Which authority exactly are you referring too? I can tell you from recent experience with the "Fair Work Ombudsmen" that they are just playing "Window dressing" games... There is no "authority" that cares... Just the other day I spent over 4 hours chasing an industrial relations matter up with the ombudsmen (Under payment, breaking terms and conditions of agreement etc etc"... they seem to be geared towards making people go away... My comment to them... "I am not an IR expert... that is why I am asking you"... their responce... "???"...
Sadly most people seem to be unaware of this.
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I worked for them for 3 years, and it's not as bad as most people here are making it out to be. Altough they did recently try to change the pay/conditions which was the reason for the latest exodus of pilots.
It's a good company to get in, do the hard work, get your hours up and move on. The chief pilot is easy to get along with, and he will stick up for the pilots - just make sure you know how to negotiate, stick to your standards, and dont accept anything less than the award.
If you keep at it, and you are what they are looking for, they will negotiate with you.
Good luck
It's a good company to get in, do the hard work, get your hours up and move on. The chief pilot is easy to get along with, and he will stick up for the pilots - just make sure you know how to negotiate, stick to your standards, and dont accept anything less than the award.
If you keep at it, and you are what they are looking for, they will negotiate with you.
Good luck
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It is apparent from many comments in this thread that a proper understanding of wages and conditions is ominously missing for some people.
Similarly some people who think that working for a pittance with payments required for training is acceptable, yet those same people appear to be those who have been in the industry for a long time - old school!
For those interested, the award system is essentially a heirachical system.
For Pilots (generally) the following documents apply.
National Employment Standards (NES) - Fair Work Act 2009
The NES is what it's name implies, and applies to every employer and employee irrespective of industry. It sets a benchmark and conditions.
The NES also states that people above a nominal income (over $100k or thereabouts) are not required to comply with an award but may do so.
Miscellaneous Award 2010 (MA000104)
This award also applies to everyone and provides the mimimum conditions of employment, including minimum wage, lunch breaks etc.
Clauses in this award apply when no related clause exists in an industry specific award.
Newbie pilots are often paid at the basic rate of $18.06/hr as specified in the Level 3 classification - "... An employee at this level has a trade qualification or equivalent and is carrying out duties requiring such qualifications .."
Air Pilots Award 2010 (MA000046)
Specifically pilots -
4.1 This award covers employers throughout Australia of air pilots and those employees.
Note that there are more awards (more specific, mostly Airline related).
Finding what condition applies generally works from a least specific (top) to most specific (bottom) of the list. All awards/info can be found here Find an award | Fair Work Australia
Similarly some people who think that working for a pittance with payments required for training is acceptable, yet those same people appear to be those who have been in the industry for a long time - old school!
For those interested, the award system is essentially a heirachical system.
For Pilots (generally) the following documents apply.
National Employment Standards (NES) - Fair Work Act 2009
The NES is what it's name implies, and applies to every employer and employee irrespective of industry. It sets a benchmark and conditions.
The NES also states that people above a nominal income (over $100k or thereabouts) are not required to comply with an award but may do so.
Miscellaneous Award 2010 (MA000104)
This award also applies to everyone and provides the mimimum conditions of employment, including minimum wage, lunch breaks etc.
Clauses in this award apply when no related clause exists in an industry specific award.
Newbie pilots are often paid at the basic rate of $18.06/hr as specified in the Level 3 classification - "... An employee at this level has a trade qualification or equivalent and is carrying out duties requiring such qualifications .."
Air Pilots Award 2010 (MA000046)
Specifically pilots -
4.1 This award covers employers throughout Australia of air pilots and those employees.
Note that there are more awards (more specific, mostly Airline related).
Finding what condition applies generally works from a least specific (top) to most specific (bottom) of the list. All awards/info can be found here Find an award | Fair Work Australia
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I'm sure most people are familiar with the NES. The problem with $18.06 an hour is it's not enough for a pilot to live on in these remote places when they are only promised 25 hours a week. Maybe in major capital cities but not in a remote area The cost of living where KA's bases are is huge. Is it too much to ask for the pilots to be paid full time under the award? Every time that question has been raised in the past management has thrown their hands in the air as if to say "we can't afford the award"
Thread Starter
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Oh Dear!
I just got a telegram about a KA C210 going wheels up into Bickerton Island (near YGTE). Pilot is ok, not sure if there was passengers onboard.
Hopefully CASA will investigate this one and sort this circus out once and for all.
This could put the brakes on getting that new Kingair put on the AOC one might think.
Hopefully CASA will investigate this one and sort this circus out once and for all.
This could put the brakes on getting that new Kingair put on the AOC one might think.
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Is it really sinking though?? i think not. with the word on the street of an addition of a turbo prop to the fleet me is thinking that skimping on pilots pay is proving to be extremely profitable.
While newby pilots are all willing to accept an a#%^ reeming to build hours, it will only continue.
While newby pilots are all willing to accept an a#%^ reeming to build hours, it will only continue.
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I feels its wrong that KA are telling pilots YOU are to pay for YOUR car to be barged to GV or GTE, so you can get to the airport each day. Surely they can buy the staff a cheap ute or similar? To barge your car costs thousands, not hundreds...
Buy a small scooter or electric bicycle, disassemble, stick it in the back of the plane, re-assemble when you get to Groote. Much better than barging your car out there.
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Just roll your swag under the wing. Saves all the dramas, is much cheaper and your arse will stink so bad after a few days in the wet that those pineapples will be used less and less until you're left alone 
In all seriousness though the company should be supplying wheels and accommodation.
If they are skimping on this, what else are they skimping on?
If the get into gas turbine ops they better get used to doing things properly. It's much cheaper in the long run.
In all seriousness though the company should be supplying wheels and accommodation.
If they are skimping on this, what else are they skimping on?
If the get into gas turbine ops they better get used to doing things properly. It's much cheaper in the long run.
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Hang on a minute! The boss gives you a Moke doesn't he?
Your workmates can hitch to work right?
Bbbbbbbzbzbzbzbbzbzzzzzzzzz
Your workmates can hitch to work right?
Bbbbbbbzbzbzbzbbzbzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by Mr.Buzzy; 22nd Nov 2011 at 08:34.
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Hang on a minute! The boss gives you a Moke doesn't he?
The scooter is a great idea for the dry season however in the wet your going to look like a drowned rat before you arrive at the airport.
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Beat ups are fun - in an aircraft you don’t own I guess! I also guess you have some sour grapes??
I know of no company that pays per NM, so I guess you are trying to distort the truth?
Rumour is that the gear up was caused by the AUTO extension system not working in that 210, Well he was well and truly over paid and cost owners and operators $$$$$. Guess you don’t care about that!
Most places do make the pilot pay relocation costs but then get reimbursed after normally 6 months, again my guess this is the case.
The reason they have to use this type of tactic is to get some work out of you, because many many pilots before you promise to stay for 6 months or even a year. But once you have that 210 signed off, the first thing you do is send your CV to Hardy's!
As for supply of a company car in these places, maybe they may - if you look after them a little better than your subsidised accommodation that they pay for.
So Beat UPS why not say to KA while you were there that you were not getting the award, it is known by all in Australia that it is the LAW – You may have been paid more if you were a good worker??
Or they may have proved to you the fact that that is the correct rate of pay for someone still in early learning?
Sorry but if you don’t like a place leave you have the choice, you are a Pro Pilot that people put their lives in ACT like one!!
I know of no company that pays per NM, so I guess you are trying to distort the truth?
Rumour is that the gear up was caused by the AUTO extension system not working in that 210, Well he was well and truly over paid and cost owners and operators $$$$$. Guess you don’t care about that!
Most places do make the pilot pay relocation costs but then get reimbursed after normally 6 months, again my guess this is the case.
The reason they have to use this type of tactic is to get some work out of you, because many many pilots before you promise to stay for 6 months or even a year. But once you have that 210 signed off, the first thing you do is send your CV to Hardy's!
As for supply of a company car in these places, maybe they may - if you look after them a little better than your subsidised accommodation that they pay for.
So Beat UPS why not say to KA while you were there that you were not getting the award, it is known by all in Australia that it is the LAW – You may have been paid more if you were a good worker??
Or they may have proved to you the fact that that is the correct rate of pay for someone still in early learning?
Sorry but if you don’t like a place leave you have the choice, you are a Pro Pilot that people put their lives in ACT like one!!