ABC Helicopter crash near Lake Eyre
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Gas old mate, you were the best of the best, and natures gentleman, I learned so much about safety management on the few occasions we worked together. RIP mate, this must be something outside your control, I hope they find out what really caused this before the pontificating buffoons carve you up. Thanks for the memories.
Outback tour operator Rex Ellis witnessed the crash and was the first person to see the devastating crash site from the ground.
Mr Ellis, speaking on 891 ABC Adelaide to Matthew Abraham and David Bevan, said the ABC news crew took off from Pelican Island in the Cooper Creek inlet about 7.05pm for Muloorina Station, to the south.
It was out of sight within a minute before he saw an orange glow behind sand dunes.
"They took off and circled around ... it didn't appear like a normal sort of exit," Mr Ellis said.
"They went pretty low and out of sight behind dunes. We didn't hear anything, just saw a glow."
Mr Ellis, speaking on 891 ABC Adelaide to Matthew Abraham and David Bevan, said the ABC news crew took off from Pelican Island in the Cooper Creek inlet about 7.05pm for Muloorina Station, to the south.
It was out of sight within a minute before he saw an orange glow behind sand dunes.
"They took off and circled around ... it didn't appear like a normal sort of exit," Mr Ellis said.
"They went pretty low and out of sight behind dunes. We didn't hear anything, just saw a glow."
DF.
Desertflower, that's not exactly the type of response I was expecting.
DF.
Is it possible to get the somatogravic illusion in a chopper?
If it was a fixed wing 2-3nm off the end of a runway on a dark night with a high speed impact, it would have to be a possibility.
If it was a fixed wing 2-3nm off the end of a runway on a dark night with a high speed impact, it would have to be a possibility.
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Well it's either a really bad mechanical disaster, and it might be, or simply a monumental cockup, which is easy enough, even with the immense experience he had.
Have to agree with the Dr .....unfortunately.
Sad loss to the Austalian community, a these guys in the media did far more good than the rest have.
Have to agree with the Dr .....unfortunately.
Sad loss to the Austalian community, a these guys in the media did far more good than the rest have.
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Based on the pictures he appears to fly with a 296/396/495 on the dash.
And no Nightsun.
Though as I said, it was a few years ago.
I think that picture is relatively recent as that looks like the new paint job.
Didn't know John (the cameraman) well but all three were fantastic people and will be very greatly missed at the ABC.
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Actually I think a night sun would be of little use in navigation - it's really for pinpointing things on the ground. The flat terrain at the site is very much like doing night SAR at sea - no fixes and very little depth perception.
RIP, what a tragic loss.
RIP, what a tragic loss.
Reverse flight.. I guess what I was trying to piece together in my own mind is the reasoning behind flogging around out there at night if in they were in fact planning to land in an unlit area. (I don't know about the final destination being unlit as Desert Flower's extract points out that they were heading back to a Station which may very well have been a lit area).
yes I agree with you, nightsuns are not used for enroute navigation. but a nightsun or the use of NVG's are usually a CASA / ops manual requirement to be able to land a helo in an unlit area if said operation has the approvals and ops manual that allows it.
I'm not speculating on the cause, because I have no idea and do not wish to speculate. I feel for all the families.
yes I agree with you, nightsuns are not used for enroute navigation. but a nightsun or the use of NVG's are usually a CASA / ops manual requirement to be able to land a helo in an unlit area if said operation has the approvals and ops manual that allows it.
I'm not speculating on the cause, because I have no idea and do not wish to speculate. I feel for all the families.
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Ultimately there was Sunfish yes, it's just debatable as to whether it was pre or post impact.
Foqa- didn't mean to suggest it didn't have a 430 or similar, but rather had a 396 which is the pseudo industry standard for experienced operators these days.
I'll draw conclusions for when the report comes out in late 2012. I've read enough reports to guess what it will say. Tongue in cheek but those around for a while know the drill. The frustrating part is that we will probably never know what really happened apart from the obvious waste of life.
Pilot suitably experienced and well rested but possibly limited recent NVFR time, unable to be determined based on flight records.
Flight departed after last light.
Tail rotor in-tact.
Main rotor in-tact.
Engine/s capable of delivering power and no evidence of catastrophic failure existed.
References to disorientation.
No information from instruments and gps equipment due to post impact fire.
If mechanical failure was a contributor, not enough height was available to perform a successful auto-rotation.
Similarities drawn to this and the other recent helicopter NVFR fatalities and the existing ATSB findings including the SAR chopper that went down off the coast of QLD.
Foqa- didn't mean to suggest it didn't have a 430 or similar, but rather had a 396 which is the pseudo industry standard for experienced operators these days.
I'll draw conclusions for when the report comes out in late 2012. I've read enough reports to guess what it will say. Tongue in cheek but those around for a while know the drill. The frustrating part is that we will probably never know what really happened apart from the obvious waste of life.
Pilot suitably experienced and well rested but possibly limited recent NVFR time, unable to be determined based on flight records.
Flight departed after last light.
Tail rotor in-tact.
Main rotor in-tact.
Engine/s capable of delivering power and no evidence of catastrophic failure existed.
References to disorientation.
No information from instruments and gps equipment due to post impact fire.
If mechanical failure was a contributor, not enough height was available to perform a successful auto-rotation.
Similarities drawn to this and the other recent helicopter NVFR fatalities and the existing ATSB findings including the SAR chopper that went down off the coast of QLD.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 19th Aug 2011 at 23:25.
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Somewhat ironic and maybe even a pointer, John Beans great photos of Lake Eyre ominously show an aircraft wreck on the salt lake, with the footnote... "The plane was put into the lake in the flood of 1990 when the pilot lost his horizon in the blurred reflection of water and sky."
Journey to the Lake Country
I note that the area where the chopper went down is extremely marshy, with the first party on the scene having to access the crash site by boat. Areas of shallow water and moonlight can lead to nasty eye tricks.
The other side of the ledger is that Gary had been flying for 40 years, in a high-stress job, and was old enough to have the possibility of a hidden medical problem.
A stroke or heart attack will incapacitate you in seconds, and there was no-one alongside Gary who could grab the controls and recover, if he'd suffered sudden medical incapacitation.
The only thing we know is that the chopper flew into the ground at high speed, and that can only mean sudden and severe mechanical failure, sudden pilot incapacitation, or the pilot losing orientation.
Loss of orientation must be relatively low on the list, due to Garys extensive experience. He must surely have encountered similar situations hundreds of times, and would have known exactly what the score was, in those conditions.
Journey to the Lake Country
I note that the area where the chopper went down is extremely marshy, with the first party on the scene having to access the crash site by boat. Areas of shallow water and moonlight can lead to nasty eye tricks.
The other side of the ledger is that Gary had been flying for 40 years, in a high-stress job, and was old enough to have the possibility of a hidden medical problem.
A stroke or heart attack will incapacitate you in seconds, and there was no-one alongside Gary who could grab the controls and recover, if he'd suffered sudden medical incapacitation.
The only thing we know is that the chopper flew into the ground at high speed, and that can only mean sudden and severe mechanical failure, sudden pilot incapacitation, or the pilot losing orientation.
Loss of orientation must be relatively low on the list, due to Garys extensive experience. He must surely have encountered similar situations hundreds of times, and would have known exactly what the score was, in those conditions.
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Based only on what has been said on this thread a POSSIBLE scenario is a tail rotor failure shortly after takeoff but possibly just enough airspeed to try and fly it on, in the dark and without much in the way of forward lights.
I met Gary briefly twice, once in Hobart where he was covering the Sydney to Hobart and also at William Creek in 2009. It just seems so unfair.
I met Gary briefly twice, once in Hobart where he was covering the Sydney to Hobart and also at William Creek in 2009. It just seems so unfair.
Areas of shallow water and moonlight can lead to nasty eye tricks.
DF.