Air Crew Fireproof Uniforms/clothing footwear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tjuntjuntjarra
Age: 54
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air Crew Fireproof Uniforms/clothing footwear
Having a few beers and a yarn the other day with a colleague, regarding ops manuals etc, and we touched on a subject in ours regarding fireproof clothing. I'd never really thought too much about it but it got me thinking, all the uniforms that aircrew wear. Are they fireproof? It seems like one of the most basic and straightforward forms of protection one can provide for oneself. At our company we are required to wear fire resistant clothing, at the very least Cotton shirts (which are provided) Cotton pants and preferably leather boots. I picked myself up a secondhand nomex flight suit for $80 in the US which is a pretty handy thing I find. But then I got curious today and saw my old shirts from flying charter in the cupboard, and had a look at what they are made of, and they are half polyester, which I imagine is about as flame resistant as a supermarket bag. All those pilots out there in 206s/210s/GA8s etc etc flying charter wearing the same shirts, I wonder if they have ever contemplated this question.
Seems pretty silly to even make a pilots shirt that isnt 100% cotton at the very least. And to anyone that says "yeah but how many fires happen in aviation, its hardly a problem" Sure, but it only takes 1, and what if its you?
Seems pretty silly to even make a pilots shirt that isnt 100% cotton at the very least. And to anyone that says "yeah but how many fires happen in aviation, its hardly a problem" Sure, but it only takes 1, and what if its you?
...wear fire resistant clothing, at the very least Cotton shirts...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did actually note the amount of polyester in my uniform with my current employer. It burns like hot molten cheese and the only fix is skin grafts.
My last employer atleast gave us woolen trou and jackets, cotton shirts etc. I think there was even something in the contract about it.
Spitfire pilots were on to it.
My last employer atleast gave us woolen trou and jackets, cotton shirts etc. I think there was even something in the contract about it.
Spitfire pilots were on to it.
Cotton isn't so much flame resistant (without added chemicals), more it doesn't melt onto your skin it just burns. It also requires a higher temperature I believe to burn compared to the melting point of the poly-whatever materials.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems like one of the most basic and straightforward forms of protection one can provide for oneself.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I cringe when I see guys getting in to aircraft in shorts and a T-Shirt...
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YBBN
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AND a balaclava...overkill imho
I remember a pilot who had an accident which gave him many burns, he now doesn't fly without a fireproof/resistant jacket on, not even if the weather is hot.
You still have to balance it up against comfort. If you are wearing something bulky, hot and uncomfortable it may be more unsafe due to inducing fatigue and distractions.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The cloud
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone once pointed out how small our cockpit fire extinguisher was and asked - what on earth is that going to do? Wouldn't put out a match
The pilot of the day replied - I don't give a **** it's only there to bust the door open and put myself out...
Think it might be more useful than that - but definitely put a different spin on the idea of a fire - rarely in ga are these things considered.
As for polyanything - is hotter in summer, and cooler in winter - melts to your skin and just downright more uncomfortable even itchy... Why on earth would you wear that...
On another note funniest **** I ever seen was a student following along like a little puppy in full flight suit with badge and helmet to his instructor who was in the thongs... Raa attracts all types
The pilot of the day replied - I don't give a **** it's only there to bust the door open and put myself out...
Think it might be more useful than that - but definitely put a different spin on the idea of a fire - rarely in ga are these things considered.
As for polyanything - is hotter in summer, and cooler in winter - melts to your skin and just downright more uncomfortable even itchy... Why on earth would you wear that...
On another note funniest **** I ever seen was a student following along like a little puppy in full flight suit with badge and helmet to his instructor who was in the thongs... Raa attracts all types
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tjuntjuntjarra
Age: 54
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True enough but if you are really serious about all this protection for flying in general aviation aircraft, you may as well go the whole hog and buy yourself Nomex fire resistant flying gloves and a bone dome (crash helmet).
Gloves are are prob a bloody good idea, although I do find I cant grip the controls as well, beats having my hands burnt off I suppose :-P
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's no part of society that people who like cheap bourbon and Holden Commodores haven't contributed to!
Google "Revolution Racegear" (or your preferred alternate supplier, that's the only one I've heard of) - they do a fine line in ultra-light, flash-proof suits you can wear as outer wear or underwear. Designed for methanol-fuelled drag racers, so you know they must be decent because those things catch fire all the time. The car racing guys have got them down to be about as cool and lightweight as you're going to get.
Outdoors/camping places are also currently quite big on ultra-fine merino wool shirts. Something around 150gsm is very comfy even in hot weather, has the advantage that wool doesn't easily support bacteria growth (so your right-seater won't wince whenever you lift your arm in a Top End November), and of course wool is flame retardant.
Google "Revolution Racegear" (or your preferred alternate supplier, that's the only one I've heard of) - they do a fine line in ultra-light, flash-proof suits you can wear as outer wear or underwear. Designed for methanol-fuelled drag racers, so you know they must be decent because those things catch fire all the time. The car racing guys have got them down to be about as cool and lightweight as you're going to get.
Outdoors/camping places are also currently quite big on ultra-fine merino wool shirts. Something around 150gsm is very comfy even in hot weather, has the advantage that wool doesn't easily support bacteria growth (so your right-seater won't wince whenever you lift your arm in a Top End November), and of course wool is flame retardant.
I bought Nomex suits from an outfit called 'Sisely'; good service via phone and internet. Not cheap but it's 'insurance'. Apparently Nomex suits lose their 'mojo' after some time which makes 'disposals store' jobs not so effective.
Nomex gloves are a 'must', at least available in the cockpit, and are not expensive. Might mean the difference in being able to operate that door/canopy to get yourself and your passenger(s) the hell out...
Nomex gloves are a 'must', at least available in the cockpit, and are not expensive. Might mean the difference in being able to operate that door/canopy to get yourself and your passenger(s) the hell out...
Woodwork is right about the merino wool t-shirts. Not cheap, but bloody good and don't pong like the poly ones. Icebreaker do a very nice one.
Tech fabrics have moved on, and there are now quite a few choices in Fire Resistant (FR) clothing. The quote below from one company (I have no affiliation!):
Frequently Asked Questions | Hudson Workwear
FLAME RESISTANT FABRICS
Your review of fabrics and use should consider all factors. There is no perfect flame resistant garment that meets all needs for end use requirements. Hudson Workwear is not liable for improper use. If you need further information to make your decision, we can supply manufacturer specifications or other reference matrials or contacts upon request.
All garments have manufacturer’s tags indicating fabric information and standards they meet.
Cool Touch - Cool Touch is a South Mills trademark for a 65% Nomex, 35% FR viscose Rayon blend. Cool Touch was developed as an effort to address the "too hot" and "not comfortable" aspects of Nomex IIIa. Cool Touch blends are available in 4.5 ox. wovens only.
EMC – EMC is from Johnston Protective Fabrics, is an inherently flame resistant blend of 55% FR fiber, and 45% long staple cotton. Fabrics provide NFPA 1975, ASTM 1506 and Osha’s CFR1910.269 specification complaint, state-of-the-art protection in uniforms and workwear with all the natural fabric comfort of cotton.
Epic/Nextec – Epic/Nextec is a Westex trademark for “soft shell” 88% cotton 12% high tenacity nylon, flame resistant, water resistant, wind resistant, breathable and washable fabric for use in all but the most severe outdoor conditions, making it a more useful functional garment than laminated or coated “hard shell” garments. Meets OSHA 1910.269, ASTM 1506, NFPA70E, 2112 and 1977.
Excel-FR – Excel-FR is a Bulwark trademark for FR100% cotton fabrics.
Excel-FR Comfortouch is a Bulwark trademark for 88% cotton, 12% high tenancity nylon fabrics.
FireWear - FireWear is a Springfield LLC. trademark for a FR 55%(Fibrous Flame Retardant Fiber) and 45% combed cotton blend. It is inherently flame resistant. It is available in knit and woven fabrics in a variety of colors and weights.
Indura - Indura is a Westex, Inc. trademark for FR 100% cotton fabrics made flame resistant through an ammonia cure process. The process has only a minor affect on the positive characteristics of cotton (soft hand, wear, breathability and shrinkage). The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. Indura is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.
Indura UltraSoft - UltraSoft is a Westex, Inc. trademark for an 88% Cotton/12% High Tenacity Nylon blend made flame-resistant through an ammonia cure process. The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. UltraSoft is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.
Nomex IIIa - Nomex IIIa is Dupont trademark for 93% Nomex (an aramid fiber), 5% Kevlar and 2% static dissipative fiber fabric. It is inherently flame resistant. Nomex IIIa was the FR Industry Standard, but is being replaced by fabrics and blends that offer similar protection and superior comfort characteristics.
Your review of fabrics and use should consider all factors. There is no perfect flame resistant garment that meets all needs for end use requirements. Hudson Workwear is not liable for improper use. If you need further information to make your decision, we can supply manufacturer specifications or other reference matrials or contacts upon request.
All garments have manufacturer’s tags indicating fabric information and standards they meet.
Cool Touch - Cool Touch is a South Mills trademark for a 65% Nomex, 35% FR viscose Rayon blend. Cool Touch was developed as an effort to address the "too hot" and "not comfortable" aspects of Nomex IIIa. Cool Touch blends are available in 4.5 ox. wovens only.
EMC – EMC is from Johnston Protective Fabrics, is an inherently flame resistant blend of 55% FR fiber, and 45% long staple cotton. Fabrics provide NFPA 1975, ASTM 1506 and Osha’s CFR1910.269 specification complaint, state-of-the-art protection in uniforms and workwear with all the natural fabric comfort of cotton.
Epic/Nextec – Epic/Nextec is a Westex trademark for “soft shell” 88% cotton 12% high tenacity nylon, flame resistant, water resistant, wind resistant, breathable and washable fabric for use in all but the most severe outdoor conditions, making it a more useful functional garment than laminated or coated “hard shell” garments. Meets OSHA 1910.269, ASTM 1506, NFPA70E, 2112 and 1977.
Excel-FR – Excel-FR is a Bulwark trademark for FR100% cotton fabrics.
Excel-FR Comfortouch is a Bulwark trademark for 88% cotton, 12% high tenancity nylon fabrics.
FireWear - FireWear is a Springfield LLC. trademark for a FR 55%(Fibrous Flame Retardant Fiber) and 45% combed cotton blend. It is inherently flame resistant. It is available in knit and woven fabrics in a variety of colors and weights.
Indura - Indura is a Westex, Inc. trademark for FR 100% cotton fabrics made flame resistant through an ammonia cure process. The process has only a minor affect on the positive characteristics of cotton (soft hand, wear, breathability and shrinkage). The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. Indura is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.
Indura UltraSoft - UltraSoft is a Westex, Inc. trademark for an 88% Cotton/12% High Tenacity Nylon blend made flame-resistant through an ammonia cure process. The ammonia cure process is guaranteed by Westex to ensure compliance with ASTM F1506. UltraSoft is available in woven fabrics in a variety of colors.
Nomex IIIa - Nomex IIIa is Dupont trademark for 93% Nomex (an aramid fiber), 5% Kevlar and 2% static dissipative fiber fabric. It is inherently flame resistant. Nomex IIIa was the FR Industry Standard, but is being replaced by fabrics and blends that offer similar protection and superior comfort characteristics.
A CFI I knew got burnt quite bad after a fairly bad accident. The shock of seeing him months afterwards made me always consider my clothing from then on. I understand a lot of his injuries were a result of his polyester clothing just melting in to his skin.
A shame that in GA so many other pilots consider you a ****** if you go the full nomex flight suit route.
Flyer
A shame that in GA so many other pilots consider you a ****** if you go the full nomex flight suit route.
Flyer
How about this then, for a pilot jacket:
- Flame proof fabric
- Anti-static fabric (protects against sparks while refueling)
- Never have to search for a separate high-vis jacket
- Clear pocket for ATSIC card/ID
- phone & pen pockets
Fristads Flameproof High Visibility EN 471 Jacket - Yellow
Antistatic, Flame Retardent, High Visibilty Work Jacket - New for 2009 this high specification work jacket features all the usual Fristads features. Zip up to top of collar, 2 Front pockets - one with flap, one with extra outer pocket + pen pocket. 2 inside chest pockets with zip - additional phone pocket. Double sleeve pocket with flap. Extra length on back for added protection. Adjustable at hem & cuffs.
MATERIAL/STANDARDS: this material is arc-tested and approved according to:
IEC 61482
Electric Arc Test (7 kA) exposure level. Standard for electricity and utility workers exposed to risk of electric arc explosion.
EN 531class A, B1, C1
EN531
EU standard applicable to protective clothing for workers exposed to heat. The clothing consists of outer garments made from flexible material to protect specific parts of the body. Hoods and gaiters are included but all other types of protection for the head, hands and feet are excluded.
CodeA Limited flame spread
CodeB Convective heat
CodeC Radiant heat
CodeD Molten Aluminium splash (part of EN531)
CodeE Molten Iron splash (part of EN531)
(The higher the number following the letter code the higher the standard i.e. B2 is a higher standard than B1.)
EN 1149-5
EN1149 Protective clothing – Electrostatic properties
Specifies electrostatic requirements and test methods for electrostatic dissipative protective clothing to avoid incendiary discharges. The requirement may not be sufficient in oxygen enriched flammable atmospheres. This standard is not applicable for protection against main voltages.
EN13034 Type PB[6]
EN 13034 covers the lowest level of chemical protection intended to protect from a potential exposure to small quantities of spray or accidental low volume splashes of less hazardous chemicals against which a complete liquid permeation barrier (at a molecular level) is not required.
Partial body protection Type PB[6] cover and protect only specific parts of the body (e.g. Jackets, aprons,...)
EN471 class 3 (note size XSmall Class 2)
EN471
Specification for high-visibility warning clothing
Specifies requirements for clothing signalling the user’s presence visually, in daylight and when illuminated by vehicle headlights in darkness.
Antistatic, Flame Retardent, High Visibilty Work Jacket - New for 2009 this high specification work jacket features all the usual Fristads features. Zip up to top of collar, 2 Front pockets - one with flap, one with extra outer pocket + pen pocket. 2 inside chest pockets with zip - additional phone pocket. Double sleeve pocket with flap. Extra length on back for added protection. Adjustable at hem & cuffs.
MATERIAL/STANDARDS: this material is arc-tested and approved according to:
IEC 61482
Electric Arc Test (7 kA) exposure level. Standard for electricity and utility workers exposed to risk of electric arc explosion.
EN 531class A, B1, C1
EN531
EU standard applicable to protective clothing for workers exposed to heat. The clothing consists of outer garments made from flexible material to protect specific parts of the body. Hoods and gaiters are included but all other types of protection for the head, hands and feet are excluded.
CodeA Limited flame spread
CodeB Convective heat
CodeC Radiant heat
CodeD Molten Aluminium splash (part of EN531)
CodeE Molten Iron splash (part of EN531)
(The higher the number following the letter code the higher the standard i.e. B2 is a higher standard than B1.)
EN 1149-5
EN1149 Protective clothing – Electrostatic properties
Specifies electrostatic requirements and test methods for electrostatic dissipative protective clothing to avoid incendiary discharges. The requirement may not be sufficient in oxygen enriched flammable atmospheres. This standard is not applicable for protection against main voltages.
EN13034 Type PB[6]
EN 13034 covers the lowest level of chemical protection intended to protect from a potential exposure to small quantities of spray or accidental low volume splashes of less hazardous chemicals against which a complete liquid permeation barrier (at a molecular level) is not required.
Partial body protection Type PB[6] cover and protect only specific parts of the body (e.g. Jackets, aprons,...)
EN471 class 3 (note size XSmall Class 2)
EN471
Specification for high-visibility warning clothing
Specifies requirements for clothing signalling the user’s presence visually, in daylight and when illuminated by vehicle headlights in darkness.
If I wore that, everyone would ask me for fuel.....
We wear Massif fleece jackets. Available in safety black and black. And camo. STD issue for some parts of the US Military. the wind proofing only lasts a couple of years though.
FR Jackets, Fire and Flame Resistant Jackets | Massif Mountain Gear
We wear Massif fleece jackets. Available in safety black and black. And camo. STD issue for some parts of the US Military. the wind proofing only lasts a couple of years though.
FR Jackets, Fire and Flame Resistant Jackets | Massif Mountain Gear
