Is Ag. Flying considered a poor career choice?
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Hi There Walgi,
yeah, you are likely right about career streaming at the start of your flying career, for all those starting out, and that as far as the airline flying goes that was the best for you. the point i was making is that you actually need the burning desire for Ag, which you did not have, for whatever reason. Most Ag pilots will advise against it as a career to any that ask, especially when times are a bit tougher and or there is a drought. this is the start of the filtering process. Even if you push past that there and numerous other hurdles that may deflect you from this job.
You should only go Ag if that is REALLY what you want. If the push is not there it is certainly not the career for anyone who wants just to hour build, or fill in some time, or because there is a high demand. it is important to have a strong desire that this is the type of flying for you. Also consider that as well as the boom bust, drought, produce price fluctuations, irrigation issues and a myriad of other influences Ag is more than hazardous, it is actually dangerous. I have been to a lot of funerals over the years and have been straight lucky to avoid my own. don't kid yourself this is an aspect that also should be considered.
I have to say that the actual flying skills that i acquired in my ag years have been a great advantage in my afterlife career, solely in GA, and that i have now flown in about 26 countries (i think). I have flown into remote highlands PNG strips and other Asian countries as well as lots of other stuff in the Americas, and Europe. my log book shows that in the past few months, the last few ILS's I have done have been in Sri Lanka, the UK and France, and that I have flown in 10 countries in the last 12 months, so I don't think that being an ag pilot has limited my career, although I am sure that you most likely stay in better hotels than I do. The PNG stuff is about as close as I have got to the type of skills that Ag demands, but also has some unique ( mainly weather and culture related) issues of its own.
Miles Long
You are spot on about the farmer thing. rural, and remote rural folk are different to suburban type of people and need special skills to earn their respect and trust. The thing to remenber is that 'the secret to success is sencerity, once you can fake that you have it made', ha ha. that attitude will not get you any work, especially repeat work, even if you you are king of the throttle jockeys. A grower does not give a toss if you fly the job inverted and backwards, all he wants is the job done as well as is possible. he wants his seeding/spreading/spraying etc perfect right to the fence line and not one inch past, at the excact right (evenly applied) rate, to last the longest and provide him with the most cost effective outcome. that this is what makes 'good' ag pilots good.
I say to those who really, and I mean REALLY, want to go the Ag trip, do it. The industry is in as good a position as it has been for a loooong time and this may be the only opportunity you get for a leg up the totem pole for a while to come.
If you can be discouraged from it, then it is really not for you and you would be better advised to go the more 'sensible' route that at least keeps the mud off your boots and puts a lovely shine on your dark blue trousers. And you will smell a lot nicer as well, and maybe even stay married, and you can drink espresso and not international roast, and you will have proper leave and holidays, and your 4WD will be a Prado, not a dropside tray, and you get to spend at least some time at home, not hanging around with other Ag pilots and mixers. Hmmm almost talked myself out of now.
HD
yeah, you are likely right about career streaming at the start of your flying career, for all those starting out, and that as far as the airline flying goes that was the best for you. the point i was making is that you actually need the burning desire for Ag, which you did not have, for whatever reason. Most Ag pilots will advise against it as a career to any that ask, especially when times are a bit tougher and or there is a drought. this is the start of the filtering process. Even if you push past that there and numerous other hurdles that may deflect you from this job.
You should only go Ag if that is REALLY what you want. If the push is not there it is certainly not the career for anyone who wants just to hour build, or fill in some time, or because there is a high demand. it is important to have a strong desire that this is the type of flying for you. Also consider that as well as the boom bust, drought, produce price fluctuations, irrigation issues and a myriad of other influences Ag is more than hazardous, it is actually dangerous. I have been to a lot of funerals over the years and have been straight lucky to avoid my own. don't kid yourself this is an aspect that also should be considered.
I have to say that the actual flying skills that i acquired in my ag years have been a great advantage in my afterlife career, solely in GA, and that i have now flown in about 26 countries (i think). I have flown into remote highlands PNG strips and other Asian countries as well as lots of other stuff in the Americas, and Europe. my log book shows that in the past few months, the last few ILS's I have done have been in Sri Lanka, the UK and France, and that I have flown in 10 countries in the last 12 months, so I don't think that being an ag pilot has limited my career, although I am sure that you most likely stay in better hotels than I do. The PNG stuff is about as close as I have got to the type of skills that Ag demands, but also has some unique ( mainly weather and culture related) issues of its own.
Miles Long
You are spot on about the farmer thing. rural, and remote rural folk are different to suburban type of people and need special skills to earn their respect and trust. The thing to remenber is that 'the secret to success is sencerity, once you can fake that you have it made', ha ha. that attitude will not get you any work, especially repeat work, even if you you are king of the throttle jockeys. A grower does not give a toss if you fly the job inverted and backwards, all he wants is the job done as well as is possible. he wants his seeding/spreading/spraying etc perfect right to the fence line and not one inch past, at the excact right (evenly applied) rate, to last the longest and provide him with the most cost effective outcome. that this is what makes 'good' ag pilots good.
I say to those who really, and I mean REALLY, want to go the Ag trip, do it. The industry is in as good a position as it has been for a loooong time and this may be the only opportunity you get for a leg up the totem pole for a while to come.
If you can be discouraged from it, then it is really not for you and you would be better advised to go the more 'sensible' route that at least keeps the mud off your boots and puts a lovely shine on your dark blue trousers. And you will smell a lot nicer as well, and maybe even stay married, and you can drink espresso and not international roast, and you will have proper leave and holidays, and your 4WD will be a Prado, not a dropside tray, and you get to spend at least some time at home, not hanging around with other Ag pilots and mixers. Hmmm almost talked myself out of now.
HD
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Good one Osmosis, easy to see that you have been there, in the days of freehand marking and humans ( ehem.... farm hands) marking by waving a brown hessian bag (the closest that could find to a white flag) and pacing out random intervals, usually directly below the power line that you told them to stay away from. At the end of a job on s couple of occasions I chased them across the paddock and put them in a channel so they would take notice of what I briefed them about next time.
Those were the days, Loading from drums, a pump and some lay flay hose, all carried in the empty hopper between jobs along with a couple of jerries of fuel. Brass T jets, and a tobacco tin full of orifice plates , swirl plates and diaphragm rubbers. and a shifter, and a pair of multigrips, a spare tailwheel wrapped in a rag sliding around on the hat tray among the empty Mr Sheen cans and pieces of cleaning cloth of various levels of cleanliness. The lunch box and thermos carefully stowed however.
I remember when times were changing and Sat Nav technology was just arriving into the Ag scene in the early 90s, our chief pilot stomped into the crew room and stated that he had been thinking quite a lot about it and had decided that GST was a good thing. we were gobsmacked as we had not idea he was so concerned with politics, "GST"...."good?" we said and looked at each other..."Yeah...it will be real easy to find your way around the sh!t weather with a GST to guide you".....Ahhhhhh..GPS. thats what I mean GPS. Mind you he also used to talk to his tailwheel each day while p!ssing near it and brief it about his expectations for the day
HD
Those were the days, Loading from drums, a pump and some lay flay hose, all carried in the empty hopper between jobs along with a couple of jerries of fuel. Brass T jets, and a tobacco tin full of orifice plates , swirl plates and diaphragm rubbers. and a shifter, and a pair of multigrips, a spare tailwheel wrapped in a rag sliding around on the hat tray among the empty Mr Sheen cans and pieces of cleaning cloth of various levels of cleanliness. The lunch box and thermos carefully stowed however.
I remember when times were changing and Sat Nav technology was just arriving into the Ag scene in the early 90s, our chief pilot stomped into the crew room and stated that he had been thinking quite a lot about it and had decided that GST was a good thing. we were gobsmacked as we had not idea he was so concerned with politics, "GST"...."good?" we said and looked at each other..."Yeah...it will be real easy to find your way around the sh!t weather with a GST to guide you".....Ahhhhhh..GPS. thats what I mean GPS. Mind you he also used to talk to his tailwheel each day while p!ssing near it and brief it about his expectations for the day
HD
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Tailwheels. I think they suffered more abuse than what we gave them credit for; easy to replace a tube though. By habit or design I don't know but we never used tailwheels locks and the shimmying these things did on takeoff roll was enormous.
We were standing beside an 88 on a hardstand one day waiting for the old girl to warm up after starting when we heard a single clunk behind us. We turned around and looked toward the rear of the aircraft to see it sitting on it's newly broken tailwheel leg. It broke all on it's own, the aircraft not having moved.
We were standing beside an 88 on a hardstand one day waiting for the old girl to warm up after starting when we heard a single clunk behind us. We turned around and looked toward the rear of the aircraft to see it sitting on it's newly broken tailwheel leg. It broke all on it's own, the aircraft not having moved.
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Interesting stories, obviously coming from a wealth of experience. But to those people watching this thread and to all the guys who PM'd me for more information who are wondering about Ag, don't be put off. If you are working to commercial or already have your CPL, but don't want to go down the airline route, Ag can be a very rewarding choice.
I do agree it is only for the very committed, and it is a long hard slog to get your first seat, as with all avenues of commercial aviation.
If you are interested in Ag but don't know enough about it to know if you are committed, I would suggest that having a look from within the industry as a mixer is your best bet. The pay is pretty good and if you don't like what you see you haven't really lost anything, and you know it's not for you, as opposed to always wondering.
Bear in mind, if you had 100 Ag pilots in a group at least 65% of the group will have grey hair. Chances are with another big season in front of us, unfortunately there will be at least one fatal accident this year, ( that statement should be food for thought for those considering Ag ).
So the industry needs some young people coming thro.
I have meet young people doing their cpl x-countries landing at some of the rural strips we work from, who have never heard of Ag, yet alone seen an Ag plane.
So to those of you who are working towards a career in aviation but don't want to fly airlines there is another alternative. It is a long hard slog that takes a big commitment both personally and financially but it may be worth considering or at least some more research.
It is not for everyone, due to all the reasons mentioned in previous posts, but if this thread has made just one student aware of an alternative yet alone consider it then I would suggest it has been a success.
I do agree it is only for the very committed, and it is a long hard slog to get your first seat, as with all avenues of commercial aviation.
If you are interested in Ag but don't know enough about it to know if you are committed, I would suggest that having a look from within the industry as a mixer is your best bet. The pay is pretty good and if you don't like what you see you haven't really lost anything, and you know it's not for you, as opposed to always wondering.
Bear in mind, if you had 100 Ag pilots in a group at least 65% of the group will have grey hair. Chances are with another big season in front of us, unfortunately there will be at least one fatal accident this year, ( that statement should be food for thought for those considering Ag ).
So the industry needs some young people coming thro.
I have meet young people doing their cpl x-countries landing at some of the rural strips we work from, who have never heard of Ag, yet alone seen an Ag plane.
So to those of you who are working towards a career in aviation but don't want to fly airlines there is another alternative. It is a long hard slog that takes a big commitment both personally and financially but it may be worth considering or at least some more research.
It is not for everyone, due to all the reasons mentioned in previous posts, but if this thread has made just one student aware of an alternative yet alone consider it then I would suggest it has been a success.
Last edited by plucka; 8th Jul 2011 at 11:27.
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thanks everybody for your detail on the industry. It has certainly given me a lot to think about.
I'm still not put off by all the horror stories, and grey hair (osmosis
)
Its great to see this knowledge around, and many of you are willing to share it, and for that, I thank you.
At this stage, for me, I'm going to be heading out looking for a mixing job as soon as the wheat harvest is over for the season, so i can save a little more dosh!
I'm still not put off by all the horror stories, and grey hair (osmosis
)Its great to see this knowledge around, and many of you are willing to share it, and for that, I thank you.
At this stage, for me, I'm going to be heading out looking for a mixing job as soon as the wheat harvest is over for the season, so i can save a little more dosh!
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One can only hope that the aspiring Ag-Pilot in Australia will not rely too much on the previous YouTube excerpt from another crappy Yank
or Canuck reality TV bull**** show for inspiration. Ain't like that boys and girls.
Depressing really to have a 22yr, 11500hr career reduced to the crappy standards portrayed there.
or Canuck reality TV bull**** show for inspiration. Ain't like that boys and girls.
Depressing really to have a 22yr, 11500hr career reduced to the crappy standards portrayed there.
Last edited by ozaggie; 18th Jul 2011 at 10:48. Reason: Punctuation made me look like a ********.
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"Gerard Lappin at Latrobe Valley"
I spent a week with this guy many...many moons ago for a pac endorsement, Was treated like one of the family and learnt more about the aircraft and tricks to flying it than I expected.
After the week , I was pointed in the direction of a ground job that could have progressed into a flying one after a season. If the worst came to the worst, I would have had a blast and gained another year of experience to help me with my next job.
I turned it down as I wanted to make a go of it with my (Now EX) lady. (aka life sucking leach)
At the time I had 900 hours and 3 years as a loader driver in NZ..... That is the one point in my flying where I still think ...If only I had had the balls to stay...where would I be now.
Now working a 9-5, doing 30 hours a year recreational flying, and still look up everytime an Ag wagon heads past.
If its your thing....ignore the naysayers and chase it!!!
I spent a week with this guy many...many moons ago for a pac endorsement, Was treated like one of the family and learnt more about the aircraft and tricks to flying it than I expected.
After the week , I was pointed in the direction of a ground job that could have progressed into a flying one after a season. If the worst came to the worst, I would have had a blast and gained another year of experience to help me with my next job.
I turned it down as I wanted to make a go of it with my (Now EX) lady. (aka life sucking leach)
At the time I had 900 hours and 3 years as a loader driver in NZ..... That is the one point in my flying where I still think ...If only I had had the balls to stay...where would I be now.
Now working a 9-5, doing 30 hours a year recreational flying, and still look up everytime an Ag wagon heads past.
If its your thing....ignore the naysayers and chase it!!!
Hi all-
Thought I'd bump this thread rather than start a new one. Does anyone have an up-to date idea of roughly what ag rating training costs at the moment? Most figures I've seen appear to be a few years out of date. I thought I'd ask on here rather than pestering operators until I've decided for sure whether to pursue it or not.
Like one of the earlier posters, I've been thinking about maybe making a start on the rating (say 10-15 hours) to get some exposure to low-level work, then try to get some work mixing/loading, and then finish the rating if it still seems like a good career option after that.
Thought I'd bump this thread rather than start a new one. Does anyone have an up-to date idea of roughly what ag rating training costs at the moment? Most figures I've seen appear to be a few years out of date. I thought I'd ask on here rather than pestering operators until I've decided for sure whether to pursue it or not.
Like one of the earlier posters, I've been thinking about maybe making a start on the rating (say 10-15 hours) to get some exposure to low-level work, then try to get some work mixing/loading, and then finish the rating if it still seems like a good career option after that.
Interesting thread, leanrt a bit about this risky business. I thought I'd like to spend the dieing days (poor choice of words I know)of my flying abilities flying Ag but i lost a mate not that long ago to Ag driving so figured it's simply too dangerous, for me.
Stay safe out there you Ag drivers, yr all nuts!!
Wmk2
Stay safe out there you Ag drivers, yr all nuts!!
Wmk2
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Wally, like any career you can't really slot into at the end of your working life. Bit like saying I've always liked racing cars so I'll finish my days driving F1 or I'm pretty good at skinning rabbits so I might do some brain surgery to bulk up my retirement fund 
Last edited by Super Cecil; 14th Jul 2013 at 13:13. Reason: recontextualize open-ended multiple intelligences
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I know a guy who has 20, 000+ hours ag flying. He makes good money during the "on" season. Casual work at 7/11 and glider towing keep him occupied in the "off" season. He seems pretty happy with it all.
Oh I don't know 'SC' Ag flying like all flying disciplines is just a skill, must like a trade to be learnt, it ain't rocket science (just a lot more dangerous) & I reckon being close to ones end flying wise after having come thru the ranks of GA you would have a LOT more seat of the pants flying ability than some young stud just starting out on Ag.
But hey it's just an opinion no more
Wmk2
But hey it's just an opinion no more
Wmk2