RAAF Crash East Sale
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Nice one Doc.
Tid - it's ok to speculate in this instance, nobody was hurt and technically we all own a piece of this aircraft so we all have in interest in what happened to it
The spacing doesn't seem correct for the fence post theory. The "tearing" damage at the root of the wings puts the posts at only a couple of metres apart.
Note in the following pic that the posts are actually outside the wing tips which is confusing.
It gives the impression that the barbed wire fence has "captured" the front of the aircraft and tore off the engine but there seems too much damage
My best guess, 15-20 degrees descent angle at 100 knots, landing almost right on the fence.
There also appears to be a lack of skid-marks but hard to tell from the photos. The only skid-marks may be in the pants of the flight crew.
And this one? I think it would take more than a couple of fence posts to inflict that much damage!
Tid - it's ok to speculate in this instance, nobody was hurt and technically we all own a piece of this aircraft so we all have in interest in what happened to it
The spacing doesn't seem correct for the fence post theory. The "tearing" damage at the root of the wings puts the posts at only a couple of metres apart.
Note in the following pic that the posts are actually outside the wing tips which is confusing.
It gives the impression that the barbed wire fence has "captured" the front of the aircraft and tore off the engine but there seems too much damage
My best guess, 15-20 degrees descent angle at 100 knots, landing almost right on the fence.
There also appears to be a lack of skid-marks but hard to tell from the photos. The only skid-marks may be in the pants of the flight crew.
And this one? I think it would take more than a couple of fence posts to inflict that much damage!
Last edited by VH-XXX; 19th May 2011 at 11:04.
depends on whether command eject was selected or not, and if not then it just depends on who pulls the handle first.
with command eject selected on, then the ejection is sequenced to the seats don't leave at precisely the same time to avoid collision.
who knows what selection was made prior to taxiing.
with command eject selected on, then the ejection is sequenced to the seats don't leave at precisely the same time to avoid collision.
who knows what selection was made prior to taxiing.
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No they did not do the 'wrong' thing. Boss says bang out so they have to look after their careers. To them there is no difference between this situation and a EFATO in a Hornet.
Me, as a two stroke warrior from way back it would be just a case of 'oh no, not again' and get on with it.
FH
Me, as a two stroke warrior from way back it would be just a case of 'oh no, not again' and get on with it.
FH
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Looks like the outstanding perimeter security fence around East Sale did a very good job of stopping a terrorist attack ! 
Well done that fence.
On a more serious note, DMO needs to save more money under SRP before the end of the financial year, so off to the hangar for a rebuild.
Well done that fence.On a more serious note, DMO needs to save more money under SRP before the end of the financial year, so off to the hangar for a rebuild.
God you crack me up 'Dr'
........."will Buff right out" !!!!:-)
'Hempy' ya won't win with the Mods, lost cause there buddy as they own the cricket set!
From the looks of things that airframe hit fairly flat on an acute angle downward 'cause if the donk had separated upon impact whilst the frame was still moving fast it wouldn't be anywhere near the main wreckage I'd say. It's a self contained crash site, looks to me where it hit in the first place it stayed or at least slid only a few mtrs & brought to a halt by the top secret RAAF barbed wire arrest-o-fence:-).Our taxes at work,lets all have a piece for a souvenir:-)
Wmk2
........."will Buff right out" !!!!:-) 'Hempy' ya won't win with the Mods, lost cause there buddy as they own the cricket set!
From the looks of things that airframe hit fairly flat on an acute angle downward 'cause if the donk had separated upon impact whilst the frame was still moving fast it wouldn't be anywhere near the main wreckage I'd say. It's a self contained crash site, looks to me where it hit in the first place it stayed or at least slid only a few mtrs & brought to a halt by the top secret RAAF barbed wire arrest-o-fence:-).Our taxes at work,lets all have a piece for a souvenir:-)
Wmk2
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Wal and I went to the same crash school. Who needs the ATSB when it's all been worked out on PPruNe)(Where's old mate Planky (resident ATSB investigator) when you need him?)
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The PC-9 Martin Baker seat and how it works
Specifications Mk 11 (SA11A)
Operating ceiling 40 000 ft
Minimum height/speed Zero/60 KIAS in near level attitude
Crew boarding mass range 60 to 126.7 kg
Crew size range Specific crew size range
Maximum Speed for ejection 400 KIAS
Parachute type GQ Type 1000 Mk2
Parachute deployment Drogue assisted
Drogue parachute type Yes
Drogue deployment Fired by cartridge generated gas Initiated by trip rod
Harness type Combined
Ejection seat operation type Ejection gun
Ejection gun Single
Ejection initiation Handle on seat pan initiates gas operated seat firing system
Automatic back-up unit No
Electronic Sequencer No
Barostatic time-release unit Fired by cartridge generated gas initiated by trip rod
Timers Drogue gun time delay, command delay breech
Seat adjustment Up/down Actuator operated 28 Vdc
Arm restraints Firing handle remains attached to seat pan to help prevent flailing
Leg restraints Yes, two garters
Oxygen supply Bottled emergency oxygen Connection for main oxygen supply
Personal survival pack Equipped for desert survival, manual deployment
Aircrew services No
Command ejection Yes
Canopy jettison No
Miniature detonating cord No
Canopy fracturing system Canopy breakers
Interseat sequencing system No
How it works
- Seat firing handle pulled causing seat initiation cartridge to fire
- Command firing initiated (if selected)
- Harness retraction unit operated
- Primary cartridge fires
- Top latches disengage, seat rises up rails, secondary cartridges fire progressively
- Canopy breakers shatter canopy
- Drogue gun time-delay mechanism initiated by trip rod
- Barostatic time-release unit (BTRU) initiated by trip rod
- Seat services and command ejection quick-disconnects disconnected
- Emergency oxygen supplied to aircrew
- Leg restraint lines restrain aircrew’s legs, lower attachments shear
- Drogue deploys after delay, to stabilise and decrease velocity of seat
- Barostatic time release unit monitors the altitude
- Above pre-determined altitude -
- Seat falls, stabilised by drogue
- Emergency oxygen supply continues
- Below pre-determined altitude -
- BTRU mechanism operates, cartridge fires (If BTRU fails manual deployment also available by pulling manual override handle)
- Drogue shackle freed
- Parachute mechanical lock freed
- Upper harness locks released
- Lower harness lock mechanism releases lower harness lugs, negative-g strap and leg restraint lines
- Aircrew momentarily held in seat by sticker straps
- Drogue extracts and deploys the main parachute canopy
- Main parachute canopy fully deploys and lifts aircrew and personal survival pack (PSP) from seat.
- Reaction to sticker clips ensures divergence of aircrew and seat
- PSP manually lowered on drop line below aircrew
- Normal parachute descent follows
- Manual opening of PSP
Specifications Mk 11 (SA11A)
Operating ceiling 40 000 ft
Minimum height/speed Zero/60 KIAS in near level attitude
Crew boarding mass range 60 to 126.7 kg
Crew size range Specific crew size range
Maximum Speed for ejection 400 KIAS
Parachute type GQ Type 1000 Mk2
Parachute deployment Drogue assisted
Drogue parachute type Yes
Drogue deployment Fired by cartridge generated gas Initiated by trip rod
Harness type Combined
Ejection seat operation type Ejection gun
Ejection gun Single
Ejection initiation Handle on seat pan initiates gas operated seat firing system
Automatic back-up unit No
Electronic Sequencer No
Barostatic time-release unit Fired by cartridge generated gas initiated by trip rod
Timers Drogue gun time delay, command delay breech
Seat adjustment Up/down Actuator operated 28 Vdc
Arm restraints Firing handle remains attached to seat pan to help prevent flailing
Leg restraints Yes, two garters
Oxygen supply Bottled emergency oxygen Connection for main oxygen supply
Personal survival pack Equipped for desert survival, manual deployment
Aircrew services No
Command ejection Yes
Canopy jettison No
Miniature detonating cord No
Canopy fracturing system Canopy breakers
Interseat sequencing system No
How it works
- Seat firing handle pulled causing seat initiation cartridge to fire
- Command firing initiated (if selected)
- Harness retraction unit operated
- Primary cartridge fires
- Top latches disengage, seat rises up rails, secondary cartridges fire progressively
- Canopy breakers shatter canopy
- Drogue gun time-delay mechanism initiated by trip rod
- Barostatic time-release unit (BTRU) initiated by trip rod
- Seat services and command ejection quick-disconnects disconnected
- Emergency oxygen supplied to aircrew
- Leg restraint lines restrain aircrew’s legs, lower attachments shear
- Drogue deploys after delay, to stabilise and decrease velocity of seat
- Barostatic time release unit monitors the altitude
- Above pre-determined altitude -
- Seat falls, stabilised by drogue
- Emergency oxygen supply continues
- Below pre-determined altitude -
- BTRU mechanism operates, cartridge fires (If BTRU fails manual deployment also available by pulling manual override handle)
- Drogue shackle freed
- Parachute mechanical lock freed
- Upper harness locks released
- Lower harness lock mechanism releases lower harness lugs, negative-g strap and leg restraint lines
- Aircrew momentarily held in seat by sticker straps
- Drogue extracts and deploys the main parachute canopy
- Main parachute canopy fully deploys and lifts aircrew and personal survival pack (PSP) from seat.
- Reaction to sticker clips ensures divergence of aircrew and seat
- PSP manually lowered on drop line below aircrew
- Normal parachute descent follows
- Manual opening of PSP
Gold
The normal course of events is that some goochy training aids are made.
Some amusing mementos are presented to the crew.
The crew present the safety equipos (the guys who maintain the MB seats) a carton of beer.
And the crew get promoted!
The old saying is to get promoted in the RAAF you have to crash an aircraft or get charged.
These days I suggest there is less paperwork and tears in crashing a aircraft, strange but true.
The normal course of events is that some goochy training aids are made.
Some amusing mementos are presented to the crew.
The crew present the safety equipos (the guys who maintain the MB seats) a carton of beer.
And the crew get promoted!
The old saying is to get promoted in the RAAF you have to crash an aircraft or get charged.
These days I suggest there is less paperwork and tears in crashing a aircraft, strange but true.
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RAAF Crash pilot speaks about ordeal | Herald Sun
Still recovering in hospital, doesnt look like the ejection was a walk in the park.
Still recovering in hospital, doesnt look like the ejection was a walk in the park.
fencehopper said: "looks like this thing has landed in straight and level trim in a pretty clear looking paddock and got taken out by the fence. Maybe if they put the gear down before banging out it would be in one piece. Does the RAAF still have a gliding club? Shheeesh what a waste."
Mate, if you can build a post and wire fence that will do that amount of damage to a PC-9 running into it, I've got several hundred security contracts I'd like to offer you, mostly for embassies and military organisations...
My bet is a normal nose down impact with a paddock as you'd expect, possible a large semi-flying bounce, being brought to an abrupt halt at the end by the fence, which was able to mangle the wings further and maybe push the already damaged nose off to the side.
Surviveable? Probably? Likelihood of accolades and congratualtions for not punching out? Zilch. More than likely, knowing Victoria's Worksafe and their ruthlessness and pattiness, the crew would have been charged with reckless endangerment of their lives.
Wasn't there a RAAF pilot years ago who managed to successfully glide a Sabre into a landing and save the aircraft, only to be carpeted for disobeying SOPs?
Mate, if you can build a post and wire fence that will do that amount of damage to a PC-9 running into it, I've got several hundred security contracts I'd like to offer you, mostly for embassies and military organisations...
My bet is a normal nose down impact with a paddock as you'd expect, possible a large semi-flying bounce, being brought to an abrupt halt at the end by the fence, which was able to mangle the wings further and maybe push the already damaged nose off to the side.
Surviveable? Probably? Likelihood of accolades and congratualtions for not punching out? Zilch. More than likely, knowing Victoria's Worksafe and their ruthlessness and pattiness, the crew would have been charged with reckless endangerment of their lives.
Wasn't there a RAAF pilot years ago who managed to successfully glide a Sabre into a landing and save the aircraft, only to be carpeted for disobeying SOPs?
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These modern seats are really good. Of course the crew will fly again. Even with the old seats and with back damage, people still got to fly after recovering.
Glad the guys got out, that aeroplane doesn't look like it was flying very well anymore. Indeed, it looks as though for a moment a pair of highly qualified pilots needed a career change and became furniture removalists...just for a moment...
Glad the guys got out, that aeroplane doesn't look like it was flying very well anymore. Indeed, it looks as though for a moment a pair of highly qualified pilots needed a career change and became furniture removalists...just for a moment...
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Wasn't there a RAAF pilot years ago who managed to successfully glide a Sabre into a landing and save the aircraft, only to be carpeted for disobeying SOPs?
I love the crewroom critics. It's a shame to lose the jet, not a waste. The jet had bang seats, engine broke, couldnt make runway, crew punched out. A waste is 2 state funerals for two bodies strapped in serv ejection seats still attached to a busted PC9 1km short of a runway.
I wouldn't like to deadstick a PC9 into a field. But that's why I fly a chopper with 2 donks!
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NOJWOD:
Garry Cooper, RAAF Mirage pilot, deadsticked a Mirage not once, but twice, saving the RAAF a bloody fortune.... and was thoroughly bollocked for his efforts.
Went the The Bad Place as an FAC in a Birddog, did some very bloody hairy stuff with the septics at zot feet on the two-way rifle range, then after leaving the RAAF became a 747 Captain. He retired as a Capt on Ansett 747s. Wrote an excellent book - 'Sock it to 'em Baby'.
Wasn't there a RAAF pilot years ago who managed to successfully glide a Sabre into a landing and save the aircraft, only to be carpeted for disobeying SOPs?
Went the The Bad Place as an FAC in a Birddog, did some very bloody hairy stuff with the septics at zot feet on the two-way rifle range, then after leaving the RAAF became a 747 Captain. He retired as a Capt on Ansett 747s. Wrote an excellent book - 'Sock it to 'em Baby'.