Becoming a Airline Pilot
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During some forty years in aviation of which thirty four were in-command I have flown with ex doctors, dentists, vets, engineers and a scientist all of whom had later trained to become a pilot, and were now completely satisfied with their current choice of employment.
I even watched a doctor on TV recently who wanted to win a Master Chef competition and run his own restaurant.
It is pretty obvious that all of these people had studied other fields of endeavor for all the wrong reasons - either guided by parents, economics or other circumstances, or had become disenchanted and moved on.
If you think a career in aviation is what you really want, then the sooner you get on with it the better.
It is a long road to success in this field, so you need to be self motivated, to have a burning desire to fly, and make the sacrifices to achieve your goal and truly become a professional aviator.
The rewards and sense of achievement are well worth it, or at least I think so.......
I even watched a doctor on TV recently who wanted to win a Master Chef competition and run his own restaurant.
It is pretty obvious that all of these people had studied other fields of endeavor for all the wrong reasons - either guided by parents, economics or other circumstances, or had become disenchanted and moved on.
If you think a career in aviation is what you really want, then the sooner you get on with it the better.
It is a long road to success in this field, so you need to be self motivated, to have a burning desire to fly, and make the sacrifices to achieve your goal and truly become a professional aviator.
The rewards and sense of achievement are well worth it, or at least I think so.......
Exaviator, all of the people you mentioned would have been well positioned to finance entry into an aviation career and probably well cushioned from the (let's face it) relatively high risk of failure to otherwise qualify or secure desirable employment. I'm not trying to sound like the guy's dad, but a career in aviation carries with it even more risks than any of the careers you mentioned, not the least of which would be risk of failing a medical, and to boot being unemployable. I would have thought summer holidays during study for another degree would offer more than ample time to get to CPL, at least, and then the opportunity to embark on a flying career with some peace of mind. At the risk of sounding patronising and decidedly un-fun, I wouldn't recommend anyone launch into an aviation career without a contingency plan (or lots and lots of money).
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Walesregent is 100% correct. That is by far the best option. If you could go either way with what you want to do, study both concurrently.
If at the end of your degree you choose to fly, so be it. At least you have another useful non aviation related qualification that wont be affected by the standard peaks and troughs this fickle industry throws forth. If you choose to follow your formal qualification then aviation will still be waiting and by moonlighting on weekends or holidays you can still keep the hours and contacts rolling in. At least in this option you'll be well poised if, in your later years, you do choose to jump ship into aviation.
I said it in another thread but this is the only path I would ever recommend a student who considering a career in aviation.
If at the end of your degree you choose to fly, so be it. At least you have another useful non aviation related qualification that wont be affected by the standard peaks and troughs this fickle industry throws forth. If you choose to follow your formal qualification then aviation will still be waiting and by moonlighting on weekends or holidays you can still keep the hours and contacts rolling in. At least in this option you'll be well poised if, in your later years, you do choose to jump ship into aviation.
I said it in another thread but this is the only path I would ever recommend a student who considering a career in aviation.
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Gentlemen, I think that you are both missing the point here. If you can identify early in life just what you want to do professionally, the sooner you get on with it the better. Particularly when it comes to an airline career in aviation.
From student pilot to an airline command takes a lot longer than becoming an M.D. Assuming that you were able to obtain a cadet program with Qantas or other major airline you would be looking at a minimum of 12-15 years to command. To achieve the same by the G.A. route would take even longer.
As I mentioned in my last post it is a long road to success in this field, so you need to be self motivated, to have a burning desire to fly, and make the sacrifices to achieve your goal and truly become a professional aviator.
What is missing in both of your posts is passion and motivation, you are looking at it only from a security point of view. Do you wear both belt and braces to keep your pants up - psychologically I think so.
I would agree with you if ones interest in flying is purely recreational, or even flogging around the circuit as a part time instructor, by all means chose another endeavor in life. BUT, if your dream as a young man is to fly around the world, in command of a heavy jet aircraft, then the sooner you make that choice and obtain those skills and qualifications the better.
We don't carry parachutes on modern jets and you shouldn't approach life carrying one either.
From student pilot to an airline command takes a lot longer than becoming an M.D. Assuming that you were able to obtain a cadet program with Qantas or other major airline you would be looking at a minimum of 12-15 years to command. To achieve the same by the G.A. route would take even longer.
As I mentioned in my last post it is a long road to success in this field, so you need to be self motivated, to have a burning desire to fly, and make the sacrifices to achieve your goal and truly become a professional aviator.
What is missing in both of your posts is passion and motivation, you are looking at it only from a security point of view. Do you wear both belt and braces to keep your pants up - psychologically I think so.
I would agree with you if ones interest in flying is purely recreational, or even flogging around the circuit as a part time instructor, by all means chose another endeavor in life. BUT, if your dream as a young man is to fly around the world, in command of a heavy jet aircraft, then the sooner you make that choice and obtain those skills and qualifications the better.
We don't carry parachutes on modern jets and you shouldn't approach life carrying one either.
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And just how much did you lose in the GFC? With that mentality I'm assuming you had all your eggs in one basket there too?
Anyone who approaches life without some backup is crazy. If you went to uni and did your CPL you would still have a jet command within 15 years. There are plenty of guys out there who've done it.
The youngest CPL out there can't be any younger than 18. Realistically most CPL's wont be qualified until they're almost 20. If you finish your uni course and a CPL you will be 21/22. Since when is 2 years a long time when you walk away with 2 qualifications?!
As you can see unless you're lucky enough to start before you're 18 you're certainly not disadvantaging yourself by doing a degree concurrently.
Anyone who approaches life without some backup is crazy. If you went to uni and did your CPL you would still have a jet command within 15 years. There are plenty of guys out there who've done it.
The youngest CPL out there can't be any younger than 18. Realistically most CPL's wont be qualified until they're almost 20. If you finish your uni course and a CPL you will be 21/22. Since when is 2 years a long time when you walk away with 2 qualifications?!
As you can see unless you're lucky enough to start before you're 18 you're certainly not disadvantaging yourself by doing a degree concurrently.
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It's a different world out there now exaviator. I'll bet there wasn't a lot of queue jumping in your day? Any ICUS schemes? Did a cadetship cost you around $180,000:00 in todays money back then?
Aviation was highly regulated, fare prices were protected guaranteeing a certain cash flow to the airline. For all their faults gen y don't get jobs for life these days, they are told at school to expect 3 to 4 career changes (not job changes, actual career changes) in their life.
A pilots licence doesn't qualify you for much other than flying a plane. An accountancy degree will get you a job across a range of industries. Being single minded about your aviation career wont necessarily get you an airline gig after 15 years hard slog when you are competing against a 22 year old forking out 180 g for a cadetship.
Aviation was highly regulated, fare prices were protected guaranteeing a certain cash flow to the airline. For all their faults gen y don't get jobs for life these days, they are told at school to expect 3 to 4 career changes (not job changes, actual career changes) in their life.
A pilots licence doesn't qualify you for much other than flying a plane. An accountancy degree will get you a job across a range of industries. Being single minded about your aviation career wont necessarily get you an airline gig after 15 years hard slog when you are competing against a 22 year old forking out 180 g for a cadetship.
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So let me get this right, you train to be a doctor just in case your real ambition in life to become an airline pilot is not achieved!
O.K. So let’s look at a hypothetical young man and his path to becoming a doctor first:
At 18 you graduate from high school then commence 2 years of pre-med during which time you study and pass:
2 year of freshman chemistry with laboratory courses.
1 year of organic chemistry with laboratory courses.
1 year of biology with laboratory courses.
1 year of physics with laboratory courses.
]
1 year of English.
1 year of calculus
Then you take the Medical School Admissions Test (MCAT) AND Biomedical Admissions Test(BMAT) Which involves testing in Verbal Reasoning, Physical Sciences, Biological Sciences and Writing Skills?
Assuming that you pass all of the above and are accepted, you commence medical school. Four Years of study and hard work later – no time for flying on the weekends or summer break because (A) You are busy studying medicine and (B) You can’t afford it, as you are already in debt for your medical school fees etc - you graduate with a degree in medicine.
BUT, just like a Commercial Pilots Licence is just the beginning to becoming an airline pilot, a degree in medicine is the same to becoming a qualified doctor. Now comes two – three years of hospital internship before being allowed to practice. However you do receive a salary during your internship, about $45,000 per year, about the same as a newly minted commercial pilot flying light aircraft.
Our young man is now around 27 years of age in a profession that he really doesn’t want to be. He probably has a massive student loan to pay off and as yet he hasn’t even commenced his pilot training and probably doesn’t have the funds to do so. In addition he has put all that time and effort into something he really didn’t want to do because if he did, he would stay a doctor, which would be the best decision and satisfy his urge to fly at a later date and at a recreational level.
Assuming a change of career at this point, and a generous parent or benefactor it would take at least 3 - 4 years to achieve a Commercial Pilots Licence with Multi Engine and I/R, and enough hours to attract interest from an airline, and to achieve a command, another 12 – 15 years as a co-pilot.
Having previously been in a flight management position and involved in the hiring of pilots, once the technical skills and experience level are satisfied, it is motivation that has impressed me the most.
Not that it has bearing on the subject, but no EOCVICTIM you assume wrongly.
O.K. So let’s look at a hypothetical young man and his path to becoming a doctor first:
At 18 you graduate from high school then commence 2 years of pre-med during which time you study and pass:
2 year of freshman chemistry with laboratory courses.
1 year of organic chemistry with laboratory courses.
1 year of biology with laboratory courses.
1 year of physics with laboratory courses.
]
1 year of English.
1 year of calculus
Then you take the Medical School Admissions Test (MCAT) AND Biomedical Admissions Test(BMAT) Which involves testing in Verbal Reasoning, Physical Sciences, Biological Sciences and Writing Skills?
Assuming that you pass all of the above and are accepted, you commence medical school. Four Years of study and hard work later – no time for flying on the weekends or summer break because (A) You are busy studying medicine and (B) You can’t afford it, as you are already in debt for your medical school fees etc - you graduate with a degree in medicine.
BUT, just like a Commercial Pilots Licence is just the beginning to becoming an airline pilot, a degree in medicine is the same to becoming a qualified doctor. Now comes two – three years of hospital internship before being allowed to practice. However you do receive a salary during your internship, about $45,000 per year, about the same as a newly minted commercial pilot flying light aircraft.
Our young man is now around 27 years of age in a profession that he really doesn’t want to be. He probably has a massive student loan to pay off and as yet he hasn’t even commenced his pilot training and probably doesn’t have the funds to do so. In addition he has put all that time and effort into something he really didn’t want to do because if he did, he would stay a doctor, which would be the best decision and satisfy his urge to fly at a later date and at a recreational level.
Assuming a change of career at this point, and a generous parent or benefactor it would take at least 3 - 4 years to achieve a Commercial Pilots Licence with Multi Engine and I/R, and enough hours to attract interest from an airline, and to achieve a command, another 12 – 15 years as a co-pilot.
Having previously been in a flight management position and involved in the hiring of pilots, once the technical skills and experience level are satisfied, it is motivation that has impressed me the most.
And just how much did you lose in the GFC? With that mentality I'm assuming you had all your eggs in one basket there too?
Last edited by Exaviator; 24th Jan 2011 at 02:41.
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exaviator,
You make good points Just so long as the fella has both sides of the story he/she then can make an informed decision.
It's the bullsh!t and lies that are told to young blokes that get me aggravated.
You make good points
Just so long as the fella has both sides of the story he/she then can make an informed decision. It's the bullsh!t and lies that are told to young blokes that get me aggravated.
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Australian companies that have NO minimum schooling requirement:
Jetstar Minimum Criteria
Virgin Blue Recruitment: Attention
Cobham Airline Services
Skywest minimum criteria
Jetstar Minimum Criteria
Virgin Blue Recruitment: Attention
Cobham Airline Services
Skywest minimum criteria
Skywest Airlines
Flight Crew Employment Information
There are no current vacancies.
General Pilot Employment
The minimum requirement level for Pilot (Flight Crew) employment is as follows:-
1,500 hours total experience
200 hours multi (command)
ATPL subjects passed
Command Instrument Rating with minimum of two renewals
100 night hours
Year 12 passes in 4 subjects, including Maths, English and Physics
Must be an Australian Citizen or Resident with a three year validity
There are no current vacancies.
General Pilot Employment
The minimum requirement level for Pilot (Flight Crew) employment is as follows:-
1,500 hours total experience
200 hours multi (command)
ATPL subjects passed
Command Instrument Rating with minimum of two renewals
100 night hours
Year 12 passes in 4 subjects, including Maths, English and Physics
Must be an Australian Citizen or Resident with a three year validity
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Like most of you, I have not had the silver spoon treatment - my advice:
Why would you go to UNI for 5 years and rack huge debt when... You can get in the mines like me, and in that 5 years you can pay cash for a house.
Just save your money and don't go buying a new HSV every year like the other drongos up there and you'll do fine..
Oh, and you wont care about earning $40k a year in your first flying jobs, because you dont have any other debts, and you will have a house and a flashy (insert dream car here) already.
I know the choice I made..
Good luck.
Why would you go to UNI for 5 years and rack huge debt when... You can get in the mines like me, and in that 5 years you can pay cash for a house.
Just save your money and don't go buying a new HSV every year like the other drongos up there and you'll do fine..
Oh, and you wont care about earning $40k a year in your first flying jobs, because you dont have any other debts, and you will have a house and a flashy (insert dream car here) already.
I know the choice I made..
Good luck.
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Sbaker - spot on except for the starting salary bit.
Try $34,525 for UTBNI 1360Kg or $35,992 for a bigger single - and thats is assuming you are full time and actually get the award.
My CPL / NVFR / MECIR cost me around $58,000 and took 3 years while I worked full time in a ****, un-skilled job in the city. I still had to borrow 20K from the banks to get it finished sometime this century. I wish i had just sucked it up and gone to the mines for a couple of years and come out with a bag of cash ready to get licenced up. A mate that I met during my instrument rating did this, after the mines he went and lived on the goldy and did his flying, got himself a 210 job and 18 months later he has just started on a metro in Darwin (well done John!)
Say you start your first job on a C182, the tax calculator on the ATO website says that the award is $584 a week net. If you want to borrow the $45,000 from the bank over the max 7 years then expect repayments of $220 per week. You then have to go live in a ****hole or expensive tourist town on $360 odd per week. You're still driving around in the '83 corolla that your parents gave you for your 18th too. Still have to come up with $15,000 for the MECIR when the time comes as well.
Not saying that you cant live reasonably well on $360 per week but I know I would rather have the full $584 plus no debts (be it HECS or bank loans), a nice reliable car and no fear of having to move back to mums and work in the supermarket if it all turns to ****.
Go to the mines, save some money and start your career in a good financial state. Why on earth would you try and study for a degree in something that doesn't interest you when you want to fly aeroplanes?? Imagine sitting in a lecture room with 30 geeks listening to an old professor bloke crap on about the periodic table or tax law, and hearing a 172 buzz overhead and thinking that in 6 years time you'll be able to do that. Then finally, when you're out there looking for your first job the person in the 172 back then will be 6 years ahead of you.
If you're thinking that its a slow work day for me, then yes you would be correct!!
However you do receive a salary during your internship, about $45,000 per year, about the same as a newly minted commercial pilot flying light aircraft.
and you wont care about earning $40k a year in your first flying jobs,
My CPL / NVFR / MECIR cost me around $58,000 and took 3 years while I worked full time in a ****, un-skilled job in the city. I still had to borrow 20K from the banks to get it finished sometime this century. I wish i had just sucked it up and gone to the mines for a couple of years and come out with a bag of cash ready to get licenced up. A mate that I met during my instrument rating did this, after the mines he went and lived on the goldy and did his flying, got himself a 210 job and 18 months later he has just started on a metro in Darwin (well done John!)
Say you start your first job on a C182, the tax calculator on the ATO website says that the award is $584 a week net. If you want to borrow the $45,000 from the bank over the max 7 years then expect repayments of $220 per week. You then have to go live in a ****hole or expensive tourist town on $360 odd per week. You're still driving around in the '83 corolla that your parents gave you for your 18th too. Still have to come up with $15,000 for the MECIR when the time comes as well.
Not saying that you cant live reasonably well on $360 per week but I know I would rather have the full $584 plus no debts (be it HECS or bank loans), a nice reliable car and no fear of having to move back to mums and work in the supermarket if it all turns to ****.
Go to the mines, save some money and start your career in a good financial state. Why on earth would you try and study for a degree in something that doesn't interest you when you want to fly aeroplanes?? Imagine sitting in a lecture room with 30 geeks listening to an old professor bloke crap on about the periodic table or tax law, and hearing a 172 buzz overhead and thinking that in 6 years time you'll be able to do that. Then finally, when you're out there looking for your first job the person in the 172 back then will be 6 years ahead of you.
If you're thinking that its a slow work day for me, then yes you would be correct!!
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Exav
We don't carry parachutes on modern jets and you shouldn't approach life carrying one either.
a favourite of mine is, 'after you have done all you can to prepare for the change, when you step off the cliff - you just have to have faith there will be a soft landing at the bottom'. What would a psychologist make of that..?
I'd rather be flying.
We don't carry parachutes on modern jets and you shouldn't approach life carrying one either.
a favourite of mine is, 'after you have done all you can to prepare for the change, when you step off the cliff - you just have to have faith there will be a soft landing at the bottom'. What would a psychologist make of that..?
I'd rather be flying.
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It may pay to remember that you don't pay fee-help back until you earn $45,000:00. Go off and do your CPL, get your first flying job secure in the knowledge you wont be paying your uni degree back until you've got at least 10 years flying under your belt.
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Do the flying first, then the Degree on line or by distance education. It will give you some thing productive to do on overnights and keep you out of the bars...
