It was all better back then...
oh my arse sixtiesrelic.
Nothing has changed in terms of difficulty from the old days.
Im probably just suffering from chronic lack of humor but whilst the reminiscing is enjoyable to read, this assertion that somehow you were 'better' than the pilots coming through today, or that the testing was more difficult and todays is lax and anyone can get through, its bull**** and frustrating to read.
The bloke you spoke of above wasnt ready for the test you took in your day. But he wasn't ready for the test of today either. Now there is always the exception of him finding a lax testing officer and 'fluking' his way through, but tested properly he would have failed before leaving the ground in todays environment.
Ive done enough BFRs with the 'old' crowd to see that your proficiency as a pilot is linked only with your recency, experience and personal attitude. Not the year you did your training.
Nothing has changed in terms of difficulty from the old days.
He was NOT ready for the test I took back in the olden days.
And by what you describe he wasn't ready for the test of today either
Too much fluffing around with the silliest little things (things he’d been taught were important)
Seventeen minutes taxiing and preparing for his first take off.
A fail item in todays test
Calculator commin’ out for the most basic mental arithmetic. Six inputs into a calculator to get say 3.123456 litres.
It wasn’t him; it was the system. Rods and calculators for MATH in primary school where we got caned for, four outa ten f’r mental ‘rithmetic.
We don’t need computers for multiplying or dividing by seventeen for some rough figurin’ on the run. Seventeeen’s ‘bout half way between fifteen and twenty; both are easy to do in your head and get the average for your answer.
Your mate has all this real world experience.. has common sense, has 'been' around but its modern aviations fault he cant do mental arithmetic? Irrelevant.
We old dodderers flew everywhere for commercial ‘full reporting’. ETAs had to be plus or minus two minutes.
Still a requirement
We had to know where we were to do that.
Still a requirement
Needed to be able to read a map AND keep an accurate log.
Still a requirement
My boy kept forgetting to note his departure time till well under way.
“**** I forgot to note the take off time… have to guess it”.
“Why not check the VDO meter… you noted that before start up, or what about the stop watch we’ve taped to the yoke and you’re finally remembering to hit as you apply take off power.
I thought you said he had common sense? Not exactly rocket science to look at the stop watch and count backwards from the current time. Either way, noting an accurate departure time still a requirement.
The habit of turning onto heading from take off. Sometimes those upwind legs were long and he was already two miles off track at the start.
Departing the circuit and on track tolerances, all the same.
Map reading?? … “Well I won’t be able to see that pipe line… it’s underground”.
“Look at the beaut straight line of different coloured dirt in the paddocks about where it could be”.
Map reading. Still a requirement. Lets hope you had a realistic view of the standard of map reading required for the experience level. A 5000 hour AG pilot sees an entirely different picture when looking at a map over a 150 hour student.
Radio calls… Dunnow why the instructors thought he was ready.
There was more, but that was lack of experience, we all did those things initially.
And by what you describe he wasn't ready for the test of today either
Too much fluffing around with the silliest little things (things he’d been taught were important)
Seventeen minutes taxiing and preparing for his first take off.
A fail item in todays test
Calculator commin’ out for the most basic mental arithmetic. Six inputs into a calculator to get say 3.123456 litres.
It wasn’t him; it was the system. Rods and calculators for MATH in primary school where we got caned for, four outa ten f’r mental ‘rithmetic.
We don’t need computers for multiplying or dividing by seventeen for some rough figurin’ on the run. Seventeeen’s ‘bout half way between fifteen and twenty; both are easy to do in your head and get the average for your answer.
Your mate has all this real world experience.. has common sense, has 'been' around but its modern aviations fault he cant do mental arithmetic? Irrelevant.
We old dodderers flew everywhere for commercial ‘full reporting’. ETAs had to be plus or minus two minutes.
Still a requirement
We had to know where we were to do that.
Still a requirement
Needed to be able to read a map AND keep an accurate log.
Still a requirement
My boy kept forgetting to note his departure time till well under way.
“**** I forgot to note the take off time… have to guess it”.
“Why not check the VDO meter… you noted that before start up, or what about the stop watch we’ve taped to the yoke and you’re finally remembering to hit as you apply take off power.
I thought you said he had common sense? Not exactly rocket science to look at the stop watch and count backwards from the current time. Either way, noting an accurate departure time still a requirement.
The habit of turning onto heading from take off. Sometimes those upwind legs were long and he was already two miles off track at the start.
Departing the circuit and on track tolerances, all the same.
Map reading?? … “Well I won’t be able to see that pipe line… it’s underground”.
“Look at the beaut straight line of different coloured dirt in the paddocks about where it could be”.
Map reading. Still a requirement. Lets hope you had a realistic view of the standard of map reading required for the experience level. A 5000 hour AG pilot sees an entirely different picture when looking at a map over a 150 hour student.
Radio calls… Dunnow why the instructors thought he was ready.
There was more, but that was lack of experience, we all did those things initially.
The bloke you spoke of above wasnt ready for the test you took in your day. But he wasn't ready for the test of today either. Now there is always the exception of him finding a lax testing officer and 'fluking' his way through, but tested properly he would have failed before leaving the ground in todays environment.
Ive done enough BFRs with the 'old' crowd to see that your proficiency as a pilot is linked only with your recency, experience and personal attitude. Not the year you did your training.
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Lost, 1 sense of humour
At least the old un's had a sense of humour and could always (well nearly) laugh at themselves and learned to know when they were being sent up, it's traditional. Maybe that's the Y in the generation, sensitivity.
There are some sensitive little flowers about ain't there boys.
There are some sensitive little flowers about ain't there boys.
Rose: Your post would be great if I was replying to an intentional send up.
Its not a send up. Learn to internet.
Edit: Oh and I did enjoy the irony of your post regarding the superiority of the oldies in their ability to recognise a send up. Whilst simultaneously failing at recognizing a send up.
Well played sir!
Its not a send up. Learn to internet.
Edit: Oh and I did enjoy the irony of your post regarding the superiority of the oldies in their ability to recognise a send up. Whilst simultaneously failing at recognizing a send up.
Well played sir!
Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 2nd Dec 2010 at 01:05.
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Gays etc
Slasher I think the days of "phoofters" being only in aviation is long gone. Seems to me that there is an oversupply of such people in the Parliaments of Australia these days. We have small businesses going to the wall all over the place, cost of living soaring, failed public transport systems, poor roads etc etc and the greatest concern for many of our politicians is "Gay Marriage". How many millions of dollars will be wasted on this debate? Things WERE better when the Phoof's stayed in their cupboards and the rest of us got on with life in ignorance of them.
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Old Fella you can blame that carpet-munching dyke Penny Wong for pushing the poofter-marriage thing. Even that colon ****-shunter Bob Brown isn't as rabid.
PS: looks to me like Wong wears the strap-on...
PS: looks to me like Wong wears the strap-on...
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"...and the greatest concern for many of our politicians is "Gay Marriage". How many millions of dollars will be wasted on this debate?"
Like many PPRuNe users, Australians are very easily distracted from the important topics!
How many remember Chips Rafferty in “Smiley”? Rafferty was in the RAAF during the war, de-mobbed in 1945 as a Pilot Officer?
The Australian movies “Jedda”, “They’re a Weird Mob”?
Movietone News in black and white?
Pence one and two as cents will do,
From three to nine one off is fine,
For ten and eleven what you do
Is take the pennies, minus two.
Bruce Gyngell made Australian history on 16 September 1956 – for what?
The mystery of Dr Bogle and Mrs Chandler that intrigued Australians for many years. The Graeme Thorne case. Wanda Beach murders and the Beaumont children at Glenelg.
The world’s first hijack, TAA flight 408 in 1960. Ansett flight 232 hijacked in 1972.
Which washing machine company built and sold cars in Australia?
“Pete” Geoghegan, Bib Stillwell, Bob Jane, Norm Beechey were what?
Swimming lessons with Harold Holt.
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Gee Tailey,
You're goin' back aways there. Perhaps before even your time? What about hobnail boots? Dripping. How many o' you young custards even know what dripping is? Had fruit tins full of the stuff. Peel the white crusty top layer off to get to the real dark goody underneath. Go back a little further and we had eel fat. Eels, being the oily creatures they are were rendered down once apon a time. Had a swamp full of the things not far from home. Damper and eel fat, how many generations survived on it? Go look in wiki if'n you don't know what damper is you young fullas.
I have to say I'm surprised refuelling of aircraft was even mentionedin an earlier post. I take it today that aircraft are fuelled by people other than the pilot in command nowdays? We used to refuel and do oil changes as S.O.P. but its been a while for me. Can't imagine things have changed THAT much.
You're goin' back aways there. Perhaps before even your time? What about hobnail boots? Dripping. How many o' you young custards even know what dripping is? Had fruit tins full of the stuff. Peel the white crusty top layer off to get to the real dark goody underneath. Go back a little further and we had eel fat. Eels, being the oily creatures they are were rendered down once apon a time. Had a swamp full of the things not far from home. Damper and eel fat, how many generations survived on it? Go look in wiki if'n you don't know what damper is you young fullas.
I have to say I'm surprised refuelling of aircraft was even mentionedin an earlier post. I take it today that aircraft are fuelled by people other than the pilot in command nowdays? We used to refuel and do oil changes as S.O.P. but its been a while for me. Can't imagine things have changed THAT much.
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Distractions
Tail wheel I do remember that Lightburn made washing machines and the infamous Zeta. Likewise, Bruce Gyngell made the first TV broadcast in Australia, also remember all the Bogle & Chandler drama, the murders at Wanda Beach and the Beaumonts going mudsling from Glenelg beach. My wife used to deal with Graeme Thorn's grand-father who was a Commercial Traveler for hosiery and womens gloves etc. The exploits of Pete, Bib, Norm & Bob on race tracks, some of which no longer exist like Amaroo Park, Catalina Park, Mallala, Gnoo Blas & Warwick Farm. Actually belong to the same car club as Des West, No 1 driver with Brock as his co-driver at Bathurst on Brockies first drive there I think. I even remember Harold H going missing from Cheviot Beach and the jingles with the introduction of decimal currency. Used to watch Movietone News on Saturday arvo's in the local movie house, Chips in Smiley, Ernie Borgnine in "They're a Weird Mob" and also saw Jedda. Life was better then in many ways. You may well be correct about the reasons behind the debate on same sex marriages. It doesn't distract me half as much as it disgusts me. I guess I am just good old fashioned homophobic!!!!
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Yes, I go back a way. I was just here when Chips Rafferty was demobbed and in the final years of high school when you were hatched! 
I think kids back then were a little more aware of affairs around them, despite the lack of modern communications technology. We all knew someone that had been to war. We had the wireless that took pride of place in the living room. No distractions with computers, X Box, mobile phones etc. We went outside and played footy with our mates or listened to the wireless. We talked as a family at meal times and respected our parents. And we saved our pocket money for the 1/- admission to the one hour newsreel threatre about once per month.
We were in Scouts, School Cadets and the school footy team. At weekends we went hiking, camping or digging out rabbits. Rabbit was a regular meal, Mother would buy then for 2/6 a pair.
Dripping? Sure! Butter was still rationed as all Australian butter - Duck River brand - was shipped to England. We were raised on home made bread and dripping, good stuff too! Parents drank Bushells tea and in winter we were given a hot Bonox or Vegemite drink.
"Beano" and "Dandy" comics and Mars bars were a special treat when our parents could afford it.
I now have grand kids and a great grand son. Kids are no different today than they were sixty years ago. They simply have other influences and priorities to what we had.
I think kids back then were a little more aware of affairs around them, despite the lack of modern communications technology. We all knew someone that had been to war. We had the wireless that took pride of place in the living room. No distractions with computers, X Box, mobile phones etc. We went outside and played footy with our mates or listened to the wireless. We talked as a family at meal times and respected our parents. And we saved our pocket money for the 1/- admission to the one hour newsreel threatre about once per month.
We were in Scouts, School Cadets and the school footy team. At weekends we went hiking, camping or digging out rabbits. Rabbit was a regular meal, Mother would buy then for 2/6 a pair.
Dripping? Sure! Butter was still rationed as all Australian butter - Duck River brand - was shipped to England. We were raised on home made bread and dripping, good stuff too! Parents drank Bushells tea and in winter we were given a hot Bonox or Vegemite drink.
"Beano" and "Dandy" comics and Mars bars were a special treat when our parents could afford it.
I now have grand kids and a great grand son. Kids are no different today than they were sixty years ago. They simply have other influences and priorities to what we had.
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Ol' Fella. Not so many years between us. Like thousands of other young Australians, Father joined the Navy six months before you were born and didn't return permanently until I was over a year old. In those few years he lived another stressful and dangerous lifetime, for which all Australians should be eternally grateful.
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Grateful Aussie's
TW, I am one who is grateful, as I believe most are. The ADF would not have my Dad due health problems, but he did his bit in the Lithgow Small Arms factory as a fitter & turner. His two brothers and three sister all were in the Air Force, one awarded the DFC as a Lancaster pilot. I spent 23 years with Ronnie before going civil. Enjoy the mostly friendly exchanges here. Cheers OF.
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Lithgow small arms factory - wasn't it the main production centre for the Bren gun? Very important place for the war effort in the early forties that's for sure.
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Soldat!!!
"He was NOT ready for the test I took back in the olden days.
And by what you describe he wasn't ready for the test of today either"
EXACTLY! He wasn't anywhere near ready YET his instructors said he WAS.
Perhaps you don't have ten thumbs on ya hands when you are under pressure of taking on something new.... most of the rest of us think we have.
He was trying to do all the bulldust he'd been taught thus the seventeen minutes taxi time.
All the mistakes should have been spotted but perhaps makin' bucks is the primary role of the school and when the testee fails they can make lots more getting them up to speed.
I have been trying to get across that today's pilot's have a heap more to learn and it's in virtually the same number of hours, so they aren't going to be as good in some areas.
The cropduster taught him a lot about flying and engine handling that the lads of today don't know, because they are only a few hours more experienced than their students
I see you're from Sydney... Hmmm that's interesting... so was he.
And YES "Im probably just suffering from chronic lack of humor "
"He was NOT ready for the test I took back in the olden days.
And by what you describe he wasn't ready for the test of today either"
EXACTLY! He wasn't anywhere near ready YET his instructors said he WAS.
Perhaps you don't have ten thumbs on ya hands when you are under pressure of taking on something new.... most of the rest of us think we have.
He was trying to do all the bulldust he'd been taught thus the seventeen minutes taxi time.
All the mistakes should have been spotted but perhaps makin' bucks is the primary role of the school and when the testee fails they can make lots more getting them up to speed.
I have been trying to get across that today's pilot's have a heap more to learn and it's in virtually the same number of hours, so they aren't going to be as good in some areas.
The cropduster taught him a lot about flying and engine handling that the lads of today don't know, because they are only a few hours more experienced than their students
I see you're from Sydney... Hmmm that's interesting... so was he.
And YES "Im probably just suffering from chronic lack of humor "
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LSA factory
Capt Nomad, yes, Bren Guns and Vickers Machine Guns as well as LeEnfield rifles and bayonets were all produced at Lithgow during WW II. Although privatised now, there is a comprehensive museum section there still.
Silly Old Git
Thread Starter
The cropdusters taught him a lot about flying and engine handling
Like how long it takes to nicely heat up a can of baked beans placed between the cylinders through the oil flap of a C180.
Grandpa Aerotart
They got a heap more to learn about flying a circuit
I had to follow an aeroclub C172 around the circuit a while back (in the Tiger Moth) - I usually duck inside and am down and clear in the time they take to fly base/final - there was no way they, and as a result I, could have made the runway after an engine failure. I watched him and he couldn't have made the runway 1/2 way down his final approach.
This is the norm these days across the training industry and not just in Australia...common moan heard across the western world.
Wanna know the real reason things were better in the old days - $1 was worth $1 not 0.05 cents. I am not kidding.
Fueling/loading/topping up the oil?
That is what natives are for surely?
I had to follow an aeroclub C172 around the circuit a while back (in the Tiger Moth) - I usually duck inside and am down and clear in the time they take to fly base/final - there was no way they, and as a result I, could have made the runway after an engine failure. I watched him and he couldn't have made the runway 1/2 way down his final approach.
This is the norm these days across the training industry and not just in Australia...common moan heard across the western world.
Wanna know the real reason things were better in the old days - $1 was worth $1 not 0.05 cents. I am not kidding.
Fueling/loading/topping up the oil?
That is what natives are for surely?
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 2nd Dec 2010 at 14:06.