It was all better back then...
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Surely you're not suggesting that it's the older pilots who are asking young pilots to pay for their own training.
You be wanting one of these then tinpis?
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 22nd Nov 2010 at 04:34. Reason: add phot
This thread started out funny, but now its stupid.
Young pilots today are no different to young pilots of yesterday. Old pilots today are no different to old pilots of yesterday. You're an idiot if you think for the first time in human history some genetic alteration has occurred turning the younger generation into a mindless pack of self centered idiots.
The only thing that changes are perceptions, and those are shaped by your age. Older people have been complaining about younger people since time immemorial and if you are unable to recognize that pattern and its 'coincidental' similarity with your own complaints regarding the current younger generation, you're a muppet.
I enjoy poking fun at the relevant stereotype of pilots both older and younger than myself, but to actually assert that the regrettable situation aviation finds itself in today is literally the fault of one age group or another. Bleh!
Young pilots today are no different to young pilots of yesterday. Old pilots today are no different to old pilots of yesterday. You're an idiot if you think for the first time in human history some genetic alteration has occurred turning the younger generation into a mindless pack of self centered idiots.
The only thing that changes are perceptions, and those are shaped by your age. Older people have been complaining about younger people since time immemorial and if you are unable to recognize that pattern and its 'coincidental' similarity with your own complaints regarding the current younger generation, you're a muppet.
I enjoy poking fun at the relevant stereotype of pilots both older and younger than myself, but to actually assert that the regrettable situation aviation finds itself in today is literally the fault of one age group or another. Bleh!
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There IS a generation gap. And it is HUGE!
That is as it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be.
We can live with the generation gap. Thank god we do have some new thinkers in the industry.
But pilots have been ****ting in their own nest for decades, and the accumulation of this has degraded the industry.
GA has never been financially sound, except in a few small pockets. There was a time when large tax concessions were happening for aircraft purchases, and there was a lot of oil exploration in this country. So there were new aircraft and some good work for them. GA aircraft were improving rapidly,with new models coming. Light aircraft were running RPT services. Pilots were in the industry for the long term, and only a few went to Airlines. There were lots of experienced pilots.
But it was temporary and false, and gradually died. Our regulator helped kill it.
We can and must improve GA, but no-one seems interested.
So we will go back to discussing "how can I get a bigger aeroplane, and lots of money" And "why doesn't my dumb boss spend a squillion and buy me a flash plane to fly, instead of this clapped out bucket"
That's as it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be.
That is as it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be.
We can live with the generation gap. Thank god we do have some new thinkers in the industry.
But pilots have been ****ting in their own nest for decades, and the accumulation of this has degraded the industry.
GA has never been financially sound, except in a few small pockets. There was a time when large tax concessions were happening for aircraft purchases, and there was a lot of oil exploration in this country. So there were new aircraft and some good work for them. GA aircraft were improving rapidly,with new models coming. Light aircraft were running RPT services. Pilots were in the industry for the long term, and only a few went to Airlines. There were lots of experienced pilots.
But it was temporary and false, and gradually died. Our regulator helped kill it.
We can and must improve GA, but no-one seems interested.
So we will go back to discussing "how can I get a bigger aeroplane, and lots of money" And "why doesn't my dumb boss spend a squillion and buy me a flash plane to fly, instead of this clapped out bucket"
That's as it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be.
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Is this a D&G JB thread??
The old days were better, and I'm not THAT old.
the Light Aircraft Handbook (keep it away from the compass), and then, the VFG the size of a western paperback and bound (no amendments).
NAAFI send you a pile of free charts regularly for all of Australia, FOR FREE!!, and we complained about it!
DCA had a great wings logo, although no-one had heard of the word - logo.
Heaps of the blokes around the aero club were WWII fighter and bomber pilots , or WAGS etc. they had REAL war stories.
There was an alcohol fueled piano in every aero club lounge (see above)
The Tri Pacer was considered to be a real aeroplane
Powered flight had only been around for a bit over 60 years and had gone from rickety bird cages to high speed domestic and international flights where all passengers (not customers) were not required to turn up several hours proior to departure for a ritual humuliation by security staff.
The RAAF had supersonic jet fighters that were good for M2.2 and were about to order a state of the art supersonic jet bomber.
Television news was full of images of a war that the USA was waging in a remote country where the locals were not too happy about being liberated.
Some aero clubs were just receiving their brand new cessna 172's
the most scary ISM was communism
Winston Churchill died
Elizabeth II was Queen of England (etc..)
space flight was the new thing and there was talk of travel to...MARS
Australia was a not insignificant player in the whole space thing with our own world class rocket range.
When you needed a WX briefing you made an 'airmove priority call' ( melb 902023 got you the moorrabbin met office), where you would talk to a real met man who could guess (just a bit better than a supercomputer model) what the weather would do for the next few hours.
Skyphone (6 channel?) VHF radios, which you didn't even turn on unless there was an AFIS or control tower that needed talking to, terminal radar was skin paint and only airliners had transponders.
It was not neccessary to hold a public crowd and traffic contral hazard analysis with the local plod prior to organizing and 'air pageant'
Public liability insurance??? wha is da ??
Wow, variable pitch propellors!... drool
You could sit up front and have steer of the DC3 if you were an aviation besotted kid, "steady boy , we don't want anybody getting sick do we?"
you could buy real WWII leather flying helmets and goggles at army disposals for a few bob.
Your bedroom cieling was covered with badly painted Airfix models hanging from bits of cotton thread and gathering dust, much to your mums annoyance.
You joined the ATC so that you could win a flying scholarship and dream of becoming a fighter pilot.
Cropduster pilots were heroes not environmental rapists....
Ahhhhhh those were the days
HD
The old days were better, and I'm not THAT old.
the Light Aircraft Handbook (keep it away from the compass), and then, the VFG the size of a western paperback and bound (no amendments).
NAAFI send you a pile of free charts regularly for all of Australia, FOR FREE!!, and we complained about it!
DCA had a great wings logo, although no-one had heard of the word - logo.
Heaps of the blokes around the aero club were WWII fighter and bomber pilots , or WAGS etc. they had REAL war stories.
There was an alcohol fueled piano in every aero club lounge (see above)
The Tri Pacer was considered to be a real aeroplane
Powered flight had only been around for a bit over 60 years and had gone from rickety bird cages to high speed domestic and international flights where all passengers (not customers) were not required to turn up several hours proior to departure for a ritual humuliation by security staff.
The RAAF had supersonic jet fighters that were good for M2.2 and were about to order a state of the art supersonic jet bomber.
Television news was full of images of a war that the USA was waging in a remote country where the locals were not too happy about being liberated.
Some aero clubs were just receiving their brand new cessna 172's
the most scary ISM was communism
Winston Churchill died
Elizabeth II was Queen of England (etc..)
space flight was the new thing and there was talk of travel to...MARS
Australia was a not insignificant player in the whole space thing with our own world class rocket range.
When you needed a WX briefing you made an 'airmove priority call' ( melb 902023 got you the moorrabbin met office), where you would talk to a real met man who could guess (just a bit better than a supercomputer model) what the weather would do for the next few hours.
Skyphone (6 channel?) VHF radios, which you didn't even turn on unless there was an AFIS or control tower that needed talking to, terminal radar was skin paint and only airliners had transponders.
It was not neccessary to hold a public crowd and traffic contral hazard analysis with the local plod prior to organizing and 'air pageant'
Public liability insurance??? wha is da ??
Wow, variable pitch propellors!... drool
You could sit up front and have steer of the DC3 if you were an aviation besotted kid, "steady boy , we don't want anybody getting sick do we?"
you could buy real WWII leather flying helmets and goggles at army disposals for a few bob.
Your bedroom cieling was covered with badly painted Airfix models hanging from bits of cotton thread and gathering dust, much to your mums annoyance.
You joined the ATC so that you could win a flying scholarship and dream of becoming a fighter pilot.
Cropduster pilots were heroes not environmental rapists....
Ahhhhhh those were the days
HD
Last edited by HarleyD; 22nd Nov 2010 at 23:29. Reason: bludy spelin an granma good not
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Ah Harley,the memories.
Every aerodrome,strip or airport had a public phone with scrawled phone numbers on the wall,for SARWATCH cancellation,local taxi,refueller,met briefing,flightplan submission. Yes,'Air move priority call,can I have Bankstown'. 'Airflash' was only to be used for emergency. Checking the HF radio in the morning,unable to hear FS 2km away,but getting 'reading you five' from a station 3 states away.
Arriving in the GA parking area at Sydney,Bankstown,Brisbane or Archerfield & taxying up and down rows of aeroplanes looking for a parking spot.
A Navaho or Aztec was a very sophisticated aircraft. A Twin otter was a mini airliner because it was a turbo prop.
Every aerodrome,strip or airport had a public phone with scrawled phone numbers on the wall,for SARWATCH cancellation,local taxi,refueller,met briefing,flightplan submission. Yes,'Air move priority call,can I have Bankstown'. 'Airflash' was only to be used for emergency. Checking the HF radio in the morning,unable to hear FS 2km away,but getting 'reading you five' from a station 3 states away.
Arriving in the GA parking area at Sydney,Bankstown,Brisbane or Archerfield & taxying up and down rows of aeroplanes looking for a parking spot.
A Navaho or Aztec was a very sophisticated aircraft. A Twin otter was a mini airliner because it was a turbo prop.
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And, then there was Pats Dog
When Pat (N) used to have dust ups with night freight pilots on the tarmac at Mascot, (cash bets only) and the only 2 'ASIC' were worn by him and his black Labrador dog (interchangeable). It was rumored that the dog had the air side driving ticket, not Pat. The two of them steaming down the taxi way to tug home a sick ship from the middle of 25/16 on a wet 2 am.
Max Flutter used to do unpaid overtime to brief and teach silly young buggers at the BK met office, and always had a tip for the Saturday race.
Cup of coffee ready at Dubbo, taxi booked at Broken Hill, (called flight service if I remember).
The smell of 100/130 (Green) and noting that the Wasp Junior had leaked 10 drops instead of it' s customary 22 and enjoying discussing it with the 'grown ups' at the end of a long, lovely day (or night) over couple of beers. Heigh Ho
Max Flutter used to do unpaid overtime to brief and teach silly young buggers at the BK met office, and always had a tip for the Saturday race.
Cup of coffee ready at Dubbo, taxi booked at Broken Hill, (called flight service if I remember).
The smell of 100/130 (Green) and noting that the Wasp Junior had leaked 10 drops instead of it' s customary 22 and enjoying discussing it with the 'grown ups' at the end of a long, lovely day (or night) over couple of beers. Heigh Ho
In the good old days we had Flight Service, always good for a coffee and a chat, a good FSO always knew which company was going broke, who was recruiting, who was moving onto the big airlines etc.
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Indeed Stationair, Flight Service & refuellers were the pilots' rumour network long before internet pprune.
Kharon,I seem to remember Pat was employed by Flt Facilities & was a refueller. I remember the labrador wandered all over the apron area,never seemed to get in the way & everyone knew it. Someone must remember the dog's name?
Kharon,I seem to remember Pat was employed by Flt Facilities & was a refueller. I remember the labrador wandered all over the apron area,never seemed to get in the way & everyone knew it. Someone must remember the dog's name?
Being the only passenger on NAC F27 from Timaru to Wellington and the crew inviting you up front for the flight, likewise Mt Cook HS748 from Christchurch to Rotorua. Being the best behaved kid on the flight and getting to hand out the boiled sweets at TOD and a few extra in the pocket. Going to school with the sweets with the koru on the wrapper and your friends saying wow you've been on an aeroplane. Being paged on the pixie airbus by name from POM to AKL to go to the cockpit because one of the other pixie pilots that you were drinking with a couple of days earlier left a note in the crews pidgeon hole.
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Most companies were owned and operated by aviation enthusiast/entrepreneurs, not bean counters with no practacle knowledge, and quite frankly could give a rats. Hazilton, kendals, Aeropelican, masling, Talair even Ansett, were started and built up by individuals
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SA8
The dog's name was 'Nigger', rumor had it that W. Lazarini (Billy the Pig) picked it up in a pub one night and it never left. The dog knew the pilots, (not biblically; well ?) was always well mannered about aircraft and yes, generally had the run of the place. One airport 'security' guy had a wife that used to make 'snacks' for "Nig".
I miss the pure fun we had; stuff ups were just that, swift boot or encouragement as and when required, from ATC, DCA, Chief Pilot, mates, Engineers, or even Pat's big brother Mick. No criminal charges for being young and dopey.
Learned more on the ramp and about the traps, had more fun, buried some mates, was best man for others. Yup, for me, those were the days. Where' s the love??
I miss the pure fun we had; stuff ups were just that, swift boot or encouragement as and when required, from ATC, DCA, Chief Pilot, mates, Engineers, or even Pat's big brother Mick. No criminal charges for being young and dopey.
Learned more on the ramp and about the traps, had more fun, buried some mates, was best man for others. Yup, for me, those were the days. Where' s the love??
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Fences and security were for prisons while airports were magical open places of adventure. The spitfire outside the gate was a a real one, the airline pilots you bumped into always had a smile and enough time for a chat.
At international airports you could park your Hillman Avenger on the grass next to the apron, stroll across to the lines of planes, all with keys in then, pick one, preflight it, take the keys out to show she was yours and then search inside the aeroclub for an instructor . . .
Picking strawberriers, sweeping floors, working in a fish and chips shops, cutting your neighbors grass and cleaning their cars was enough to pay for your lessons.
A c-cat instructor was a god, you felt lucky to be asked to wash the aircraft after the flight, every hangar had a cat, when it rained the old aviation magazines were always a good read and it made it better that the pool table was on a lean and the 6 ball was missing.
You felt like each flight was an adventure and you were part of something grand where a snotty nosed teenage student pilot, a crop duster, jumbo driver and home built eccentric were all brothers of the sky. You didn't worry about getting a job as just getting a flight today felt like you were living.
At international airports you could park your Hillman Avenger on the grass next to the apron, stroll across to the lines of planes, all with keys in then, pick one, preflight it, take the keys out to show she was yours and then search inside the aeroclub for an instructor . . .
Picking strawberriers, sweeping floors, working in a fish and chips shops, cutting your neighbors grass and cleaning their cars was enough to pay for your lessons.
A c-cat instructor was a god, you felt lucky to be asked to wash the aircraft after the flight, every hangar had a cat, when it rained the old aviation magazines were always a good read and it made it better that the pool table was on a lean and the 6 ball was missing.
You felt like each flight was an adventure and you were part of something grand where a snotty nosed teenage student pilot, a crop duster, jumbo driver and home built eccentric were all brothers of the sky. You didn't worry about getting a job as just getting a flight today felt like you were living.
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Imagine calling a dog that name now....you'd be up racism charges. The ASIC card you speak of was,in those days,just called an ID card. Nigger had his picture on his around his collar. In fact no one else had security information dangling from them. No locked gates in those days,just park the car & walk through the gateway to the GA aircraft. Many years before even hi-vis vests were even thought of.
Briefing office at Sydney was standing room only every early morning, a line up to submit flightplans to a real person who pulled out pages of notams & stapled them the flightplan.
Briefing office at Sydney was standing room only every early morning, a line up to submit flightplans to a real person who pulled out pages of notams & stapled them the flightplan.
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For some reason all the met men were Indians, probably won't be long and we will be speaking to their children. This time in a Mumbai call centre when briefing is outsourced.
$25/ hr when I was learning in 1976.
I used to sell newspapers before school and do the lawn mower round on weekends, and loved every minute of it. It all meant I could go for fly.
Do people still spend the weekend at the local aeroclub, or is it in, have your lesson and out?
$25/ hr when I was learning in 1976.
I used to sell newspapers before school and do the lawn mower round on weekends, and loved every minute of it. It all meant I could go for fly.
Do people still spend the weekend at the local aeroclub, or is it in, have your lesson and out?
Moderator
Harley, I resemble that! 
It was shortly after the first TV broadcast in Australia, between the Melbourne Olympics and the time the local club upped the price on a Chippie to £4/10/- an hour, dual, including briefings.
We were all "the younger generation" once. Today's youth haven't changed, they are what we were 40 or 50 years ago.
We've changed, we've all grown older.
It was shortly after the first TV broadcast in Australia, between the Melbourne Olympics and the time the local club upped the price on a Chippie to £4/10/- an hour, dual, including briefings.
We were all "the younger generation" once. Today's youth haven't changed, they are what we were 40 or 50 years ago.
We've changed, we've all grown older.
short flights long nights
Spending ALL weekend at the aeroclub..sharing flights with each other, doing "hanger patrols" talking and learning from each other...then to the bar at night...those were the days
Moderator
Yes and if the local Copper thought your driving looked a bit crook, it was "Hop in son. I'll park your car where its safe and give you a lift home."
Ah, my first car - a 1929 Standard 10 I bought for 25 quid. So proud I'd give it a wash and bit of a polish before going to the aero club on a Saturday afternoon. The CFI had a brand new Vanguard Spacemaster, with column gear shift! Wow!
"Melbourne" and "Sydney" replaced their Sea Furies with their first turbine aircraft, the Fairey Gannet - never mind the Double Mamba needed an overhaul after every flight - and seeing one up close as a wide eyes kid!
War surplus, anything from a gas mask for 6d, to a BSA motor bike for £5 or Jeep for £15.
"Superman" with Leonard Teale. "Life with Dexter". "Hopalong Casidy". And Mother's infernal "Blue Hills" by Gwen Meredith, episode number 3,451.
Daisey air rifles - you can be gaoled for owning one now. Bottle of cordial 4 1/2d and threepence back on the bottle. School Cadets and endless cases of live war surplus .303 ammo for the Lee Enfield, Vickers and Bren.
Plume, Vacuum and Golden Fleece. If you don't know what they are, you're far too young.
Ah, they were the days.
Ah, my first car - a 1929 Standard 10 I bought for 25 quid. So proud I'd give it a wash and bit of a polish before going to the aero club on a Saturday afternoon. The CFI had a brand new Vanguard Spacemaster, with column gear shift! Wow!
"Melbourne" and "Sydney" replaced their Sea Furies with their first turbine aircraft, the Fairey Gannet - never mind the Double Mamba needed an overhaul after every flight - and seeing one up close as a wide eyes kid!
War surplus, anything from a gas mask for 6d, to a BSA motor bike for £5 or Jeep for £15.
"Superman" with Leonard Teale. "Life with Dexter". "Hopalong Casidy". And Mother's infernal "Blue Hills" by Gwen Meredith, episode number 3,451.
Daisey air rifles - you can be gaoled for owning one now. Bottle of cordial 4 1/2d and threepence back on the bottle. School Cadets and endless cases of live war surplus .303 ammo for the Lee Enfield, Vickers and Bren.
Plume, Vacuum and Golden Fleece. If you don't know what they are, you're far too young.
Ah, they were the days.
Silly Old Git
Thread Starter
Tearing about with other yoof in search of leaflets being dropped from AC Tiger Moth advertising up and coming AIRPAGEANT
Lucky draw on one of them for flight with Club CPL hero type in Tiger
A "Management Pilot" was generally the boss that flew the same ****ty equipment you did day in day out.
Lucky draw on one of them for flight with Club CPL hero type in Tiger
A "Management Pilot" was generally the boss that flew the same ****ty equipment you did day in day out.