Nine Dead in Fox Glacier Crash, New Zealand
a friend's eyewitness [pilot] saw it climb steeply immediately after take-off , stall and drop a wing and hit the ground 'vertically'..
Doesn't sound like an engine issue "Aileron'...
Can't speculate on the actual reason....
Sad day for all concerned whatever the reason,,,,
Doesn't sound like an engine issue "Aileron'...
Can't speculate on the actual reason....
Sad day for all concerned whatever the reason,,,,
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Way to early to say what happened but being a Walter topdressing pilot myself and by what people have seen it seems to be more towards a control problem rather than a engine problem. Real shame for everyone and family, brings a tear to my eye.
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Im not home at the moment to ask anyone about it, I was just going on this comment:
Which sounded like a catastrophic engine failure, similar to one in the North Island a couple of years back that had to put down in a riverbed after flames shot from the exhaust and the engine quit. News reporters are pretty good at ballsing it up tho as we all know so I guess we will see what the crash report says.
Locals believe it may have been a sky diving flight and there are reports it burst into flames after take-off
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I know a couple of people that saw it happen. From their accounts, it was climbing steeply initially, the pilot did manage to reduce the nose attitude but it was too late... no airspeed, wing drop, crash. There do not appear to be any mechanical issues, witnesses all seem to be saying that it was making plenty of power (well maybe plenty of noise)...
Yes we should wait for the report, however the only thing it is likely to say that we don 't already know is "aft c of g"...
Yes we should wait for the report, however the only thing it is likely to say that we don 't already know is "aft c of g"...
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Yes we should wait for the report, however the only thing it is likely to say that we don 't already know is "aft c of g"...
was a sad day for the industry & unfortunatly I doubt much will be learn't from the accident as I fear it's a case of lessons already learn't being forgotten
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Yes would have to agree. It probably wasn't intentionally loaded with an aft C of G, but maybe a spirited departure with a bunch of essentially unrestrained skydivers all ending up in the back together...
Some folk I know who have flown the type say that there can be elevator authority issues at aft C of G, particularly with the Walter-powered examples... anyone know for sure?
Some folk I know who have flown the type say that there can be elevator authority issues at aft C of G, particularly with the Walter-powered examples... anyone know for sure?
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I did Half of Chami's PPL , and most of his CPL Training., plus tailwheel conversion.
A well above average pilot, he was very meticulous with his CPL training, and has been parachute dropping now for eight years, amassing vast experience.
It was a priviledge to train him, and to know him, he was quiet, likeable, hardworker.I am sure all who knew him will agree.
Farewell my friend. thanks for the memories, I will always hold them.
Condolences to all, for a very tragic accident.
A well above average pilot, he was very meticulous with his CPL training, and has been parachute dropping now for eight years, amassing vast experience.
It was a priviledge to train him, and to know him, he was quiet, likeable, hardworker.I am sure all who knew him will agree.
Farewell my friend. thanks for the memories, I will always hold them.
Condolences to all, for a very tragic accident.
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...prompted by a recent accident which indicated it is possible to exceed the aircraft aft C of G limits during parachuting operations.
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They can. Amply proven daily. The problem arises when the essentially unrestrained load shifts (by whatever mechanism) to a point taking the aircraft beyond its design load-limits.
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Is in not a requirement to use single point restraints in NZ?
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At our dropzone last weekend and the buzz is the CG went aft on lift off. They were all found in the back. No single point restraints were used or even required. i've watched the Turbine Fletcher take off at YMTD and not impressed with the way it waddles into the air. just have to see what the investigation reveals. Sad day as most knew those involved.
We took delivery of a Cresco on Saturday so the C/G topic was bashed around. If the seating was the same for the Cox Fletcher it would be to easy to slip along them down them. Had no problems getting everyone to buckle up.
Gotta admit that Cresco is a really good jumpship. 10 jumpers full tanks still well within max wgt by 350kg i think he said. PT6-34 gives pretty brisk acceleration enough to make you brace your feet and hang on. A 'sensible' climb angle until 800ft then get up it, gave 12mins to FL140, still showing a good 1000fpm coming down to 9mins with 3 loads fuel. Even with ten packed in the door on exit it is easily managed. If it stalls on jump run then it is because the pilot allowed it to. Gonna be a fun summer.
FH
We took delivery of a Cresco on Saturday so the C/G topic was bashed around. If the seating was the same for the Cox Fletcher it would be to easy to slip along them down them. Had no problems getting everyone to buckle up.
Gotta admit that Cresco is a really good jumpship. 10 jumpers full tanks still well within max wgt by 350kg i think he said. PT6-34 gives pretty brisk acceleration enough to make you brace your feet and hang on. A 'sensible' climb angle until 800ft then get up it, gave 12mins to FL140, still showing a good 1000fpm coming down to 9mins with 3 loads fuel. Even with ten packed in the door on exit it is easily managed. If it stalls on jump run then it is because the pilot allowed it to. Gonna be a fun summer.
FH
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Maitland/Rutherford, plus a XL operating from Cessnock. Now Elderslie's Cresco. All climbing above our house at Greta. XL is the loudest seems to have a medioca climb. Cresco is the quietest, Plus Luskintyre just over the river had lots of aircraft flying. 
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Quote: "XL is the loudest seems to have a medioca climb. Cresco is the quietest,"
Anybody out there able to give any reason's as to the validity of this statement? Different engine, prop, or what?
Apologies if this is too much thread creep on a serious topic.
Anybody out there able to give any reason's as to the validity of this statement? Different engine, prop, or what?
Apologies if this is too much thread creep on a serious topic.
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How are these parachutists restrained in this type of aircraft? Do they have seats fitted, restrained in any other way, or do they just hang on to hand holds/grips? Are these aircraft fitted with a restraining net, at a suitable position in the cabin?
I have seen these aircraft operating on jump work and I have thought of this point. I guess it would not be easy for a geared up parachutist to maneuver inside and aircraft with seats fitted.
If there haven't been seats fitted and no adequate restraints, then it is surprising this type of tragedy hasn't happened previously. Has someone (CAA) taken their eye off the ball?
I have seen these aircraft operating on jump work and I have thought of this point. I guess it would not be easy for a geared up parachutist to maneuver inside and aircraft with seats fitted.
If there haven't been seats fitted and no adequate restraints, then it is surprising this type of tragedy hasn't happened previously. Has someone (CAA) taken their eye off the ball?
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 14th Sep 2010 at 04:18.
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Has someone (CAA) taken their eye off the ball?
"An accident waiting to happen" is being charitable. Many of these sorts of operations are run way too "close to the edge", that is until something happens and people are hurt.
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Quote: "XL is the loudest seems to have a medioca climb. Cresco is the quietest,"
Anybody out there able to give any reason's as to the validity of this statement? Different engine, prop, or what?
Apologies if this is too much thread creep on a serious topic.
Anybody out there able to give any reason's as to the validity of this statement? Different engine, prop, or what?
Apologies if this is too much thread creep on a serious topic.