VFR Operations At Tamworth
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VFR Operations At Tamworth
Flew into Tamworth VFR in the heli last Saturday. The place was virtually dead. Even the flying club has a notice that clearly says “Closed”. Someone told me they don’t have any aeroplanes!
Magnificent cavok day – on departure the Air Traffic Controller wanted to know why I did not give a departure report. Being VFR I told him I understood it was the rules. He promptly told me that the Enroute Supplement makes it clear that departure reports are required for VFR in certain circumstances.
I have spent about thirty minutes looking at the mighty-complex (!) pages and hundreds and hundreds of words in relation to Tamworth and can’t work out why the procedures are different – if they are – than other Class D towers.
At the same time, a helicopter was held for twelve minutes at the control zone boundary in cavok conditions waiting for parachutists to drop. I regularly operate to Goulburn airfield and we can get in and out with the parachute operations by using visual techniques and good airmanship.
I wonder just what the procedures are at Tamworth and other Class D towers and why this would keep a helicopter – which was low on fuel – holding for such a long period.
Any suggestions and comments would be appreciated.
Magnificent cavok day – on departure the Air Traffic Controller wanted to know why I did not give a departure report. Being VFR I told him I understood it was the rules. He promptly told me that the Enroute Supplement makes it clear that departure reports are required for VFR in certain circumstances.
I have spent about thirty minutes looking at the mighty-complex (!) pages and hundreds and hundreds of words in relation to Tamworth and can’t work out why the procedures are different – if they are – than other Class D towers.
At the same time, a helicopter was held for twelve minutes at the control zone boundary in cavok conditions waiting for parachutists to drop. I regularly operate to Goulburn airfield and we can get in and out with the parachute operations by using visual techniques and good airmanship.
I wonder just what the procedures are at Tamworth and other Class D towers and why this would keep a helicopter – which was low on fuel – holding for such a long period.
Any suggestions and comments would be appreciated.
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I don't have a chart in front of me, nor am I familiar with Tamworth these days, but did your climb take you out of the TW CTR and into their CTA? If so, they require a departure report. If you remain below the D CTA steps no report is required.
Caught us out a few times early on at another aerodrome when the June 3 changes were implemented. It was good of CASA to highlight this requirement during their roadshows
.
Doesn't really affect the former GAAPs as their surrounding airspace is usually different (in my neck of the woods anyway).
Caught us out a few times early on at another aerodrome when the June 3 changes were implemented. It was good of CASA to highlight this requirement during their roadshows
.Doesn't really affect the former GAAPs as their surrounding airspace is usually different (in my neck of the woods anyway).
To put it simply Mr Smith, Military. Becomes a bit troublesome in Darwin as well, slightly different procedures and such. With the parachuting stuff up here the pilots usually call when their chutes are on the ground which can help expedite the sorts of problems like what you described.
Major issue as I see it is not knowing exactly where the parachutists are, so they give them a 3-5nm operating circle from the drop zone and generally get people to steer clear. Also it can depend on the controllers, at one particular parachuting operation I flew for they were pretty good with getting traffic around us and we helped them as much as possible by letting them know when it was all clear for traffic to get through, so cooperation plays a big part in my opinion, some of the dodgier drop pilots aren't always aware of these sorts of things.
And as far as i'm aware, all class D airspace requires a departure report does it not? Certainly Maroochydore did when I was around there about a year and a half back and Alice Springs does, was there only a month ago now. But usually they'll request you go ahead with departure report as opposed to asking why you didn't?
Major issue as I see it is not knowing exactly where the parachutists are, so they give them a 3-5nm operating circle from the drop zone and generally get people to steer clear. Also it can depend on the controllers, at one particular parachuting operation I flew for they were pretty good with getting traffic around us and we helped them as much as possible by letting them know when it was all clear for traffic to get through, so cooperation plays a big part in my opinion, some of the dodgier drop pilots aren't always aware of these sorts of things.
And as far as i'm aware, all class D airspace requires a departure report does it not? Certainly Maroochydore did when I was around there about a year and a half back and Alice Springs does, was there only a month ago now. But usually they'll request you go ahead with departure report as opposed to asking why you didn't?
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.........here ya go!
Departure Reports
VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes.
VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes.
Yes I too got caught out after the 3 June changes where you DO need a departure report unless departing Class D CTR (which I now know is 1000 foot or 6nm in most cases)
So no report if departing the control zone at or below 1000. Report for anything else.
As said above, this was NOT explained at the CASA roadshows.
So no report if departing the control zone at or below 1000. Report for anything else.
As said above, this was NOT explained at the CASA roadshows.
Dick I think "jaba' is right there (despite him flying a SE plane
) with his ref but I have heard a few VFR lighties going out of AY mentioning that they are clear of their zone or past a particular local town & an Alt report given as well. Most likely a 'helpful' call only due local knowledge but when next I pass thru AY I'll ask the fat controller but the way I read it a dep report is not req into G air
See Dick it pays to be a nobody that way ya get left alone
Wmk2
p.s.....when next do we see a toy plane show at yr property Dick?
) with his ref but I have heard a few VFR lighties going out of AY mentioning that they are clear of their zone or past a particular local town & an Alt report given as well. Most likely a 'helpful' call only due local knowledge but when next I pass thru AY I'll ask the fat controller but the way I read it a dep report is not req into G airSee Dick it pays to be a nobody that way ya get left alone
Wmk2
p.s.....when next do we see a toy plane show at yr property Dick?
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ATC need to have clear airspace 1Nm around the drop zone for a drop height less than 10,000ft and then it increases above that (i think its 1.5NM for FL drop heights) Not 100% on the figures quoted but regardless this means planes can get quite close to the DZ, dont know why them guys are getting held outside the control zone! 
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The ATC on duty about noon on Saturday insisted that I give a VFR departure call even when I said I believed it was not required.
Was he correct?
Surely Scurvy would know?
Was he correct?
Surely Scurvy would know?
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And what happens to you if you don't give a call? Do you get a visit from the AsA no-necks in the middle of the night?
In my limited understanding, the departure call is for TAAAAATS. Departing VFR into Class G...who cares?
In my limited understanding, the departure call is for TAAAAATS. Departing VFR into Class G...who cares?
Flew into Tamworth VFR
Never fly VFR - even on these beautiful CAVOK days.
Its just too hard!
Dr
PS: Your helicopter/meat bomb story is interesting. I fly in, around and through the meat bombing areas at Innisfail and Mission Beach all the time - never a problem. A quick chat on the radio keeps us separated!
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ATC need to have clear airspace 1Nm around the drop zone for a drop height less than 10,000ft and then it increases above that (i think its 1.5NM for FL drop heights)
And what happens to you if you don't give a call? Do you get a visit from the AsA no-necks in the middle of the night?
No, not AsA, just a snail mail missive from CASA Compliance and Enforcement,( or whatever they are called now) inviting you to pay an Administrative Fine ( usually quite steep compared to an automotive "bluey"), plus any demerit points "as appropriate", or informing you of your alternative right to prosecution.
Tootle pip!!
Ain't no military controllers at Tamworth.
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Gents
Meat Bombing in CTA is different to meat bombing in Class G
I have been "Required" to be OCTA on descent while IFR but visual.......and it was all so the YCAB meat bomber could drop his load.
Next time I will take a while to become visual and see what happens.
Dick,
Scurvy is not here any more, but I know how to find him and get a reply. I suspect you are right and the guy in TW is wrong. Maybe they need some additional time to adjust and training just like the pilot folk do!
J
Meat Bombing in CTA is different to meat bombing in Class G
I have been "Required" to be OCTA on descent while IFR but visual.......and it was all so the YCAB meat bomber could drop his load.
Next time I will take a while to become visual and see what happens
.Dick,
Scurvy is not here any more, but I know how to find him and get a reply. I suspect you are right and the guy in TW is wrong. Maybe they need some additional time to adjust and training just like the pilot folk do!
J
as Jaba said ...
I haven't got a chart here, but just a thought ....
Did you actually depart the CTR(Zone) or did you cut into their CTA?
If so, you would be required to provide a departure report by the letter of the law.
Departure Reports
VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes.
VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes.
Did you actually depart the CTR(Zone) or did you cut into their CTA?
If so, you would be required to provide a departure report by the letter of the law.
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Tamworth is a bit of a joke when its quiet... I went in IFR on a public holiday recently, had to wait an hour or so for my pax - there was just me and the controller, not one other plane arrived or departed - he was most helpful and friendly and we had quite a chat. The terminal was absolutely deserted - just a lady looking after the equally deserted cafeteria. I think she was glad to see someone too! When I departed, still completely alone, I wasn't sure if the controller needed a departure report so I asked and was told not to bother. I then went on to Williamtown Class E/CTAF with no controller or anyone else on the ground to be heard anywhere .. what a contrast! I was mixing it with 3 jets on the way in and two on the way out... we worked it all out - somehow. Makes you wonder about our ATC system - when places like Tamworth can be so deserted and but need a controller who is obviously desperate for a C150 or two to keep him busy - when we have jets with hundreds of people on board at other places and no controllers of any type at all.
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THE VTC's ARE BLOODY WRONG!
Take a look at YBSU. (Maroochydore)
The VTC says D CTR SFC to 4500. That is wrong! It only goes to 1500. How the hell is a pilot supposed to know that you have flown into CTA if the map says nothing? No NOTAM, nothing. What does Ht does the TW CTR stop at?
Now if AsA produces an incorrect map, you would have to assume they are responsible for issuing a NOTAM wouldn't you?
Fix it!
The VTC says D CTR SFC to 4500. That is wrong! It only goes to 1500. How the hell is a pilot supposed to know that you have flown into CTA if the map says nothing? No NOTAM, nothing. What does Ht does the TW CTR stop at?
Now if AsA produces an incorrect map, you would have to assume they are responsible for issuing a NOTAM wouldn't you?
Fix it!