VFR Operations At Tamworth
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Location: australia
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Civilair is the ATCs Association.
ASA do not like Civilair. I would say that CASA do not like Civilair.
Civilair let both parties know what they think of impending rule changes as it affects ATCs ability to SAFELY deliver the 'service'
ASA have the attitude that anything Civilair says is bad for ASA.
Civilair do not make the rules. ASA do not make the rules.
The people in Civilair who have ATC experience are professional volunteers.
They try to ensure that, when new procedures are brought in, Civilair members are not left hanging in the breeze.
Dick, how much money and resources do you think Civilair has? A team of QCs and a fully fledged PR department ready to go?
Not exactly, we have hard working people in our office, but we in way no way have a budget that will allow us to take on the government, ASA (there goes the budget), CASA and vested interst groups.
ASA will have a go at Civilair everytime just to make us spend money on representation. ASA have lots of money, it's called Navcharges.
Civilair is NOT an enemy of the Aviation community. Do not expect Civilair to be THE leader for reform of Aviation in Australia, that comes from the politicians.
We have a landmass almost the size of the continental US. We do not have the infrastructure, nor the controller numbers. I would love to drive on a 6 line highway from Cairns to Melbourne/ Adelaide. Does this make us thirdworld?
ASA do not like Civilair. I would say that CASA do not like Civilair.
Civilair let both parties know what they think of impending rule changes as it affects ATCs ability to SAFELY deliver the 'service'
ASA have the attitude that anything Civilair says is bad for ASA.
Civilair do not make the rules. ASA do not make the rules.
The people in Civilair who have ATC experience are professional volunteers.
They try to ensure that, when new procedures are brought in, Civilair members are not left hanging in the breeze.
Dick, how much money and resources do you think Civilair has? A team of QCs and a fully fledged PR department ready to go?
Not exactly, we have hard working people in our office, but we in way no way have a budget that will allow us to take on the government, ASA (there goes the budget), CASA and vested interst groups.
ASA will have a go at Civilair everytime just to make us spend money on representation. ASA have lots of money, it's called Navcharges.
Civilair is NOT an enemy of the Aviation community. Do not expect Civilair to be THE leader for reform of Aviation in Australia, that comes from the politicians.
We have a landmass almost the size of the continental US. We do not have the infrastructure, nor the controller numbers. I would love to drive on a 6 line highway from Cairns to Melbourne/ Adelaide. Does this make us thirdworld?
Last edited by max1; 22nd Aug 2010 at 11:23.
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What a departure report gives to the controller without radar, is a track, level on climb to, and an estimate.
You might be surprised to hear how many aircraft when given climb to an intermediate level, will give a departure report on climb to their planned level, some give the wrong track, some make a 10 min error in the departure time and estimate.
A departure report gives a controller another chance to check that the correct level has been given to the pilot (and coordinated with the next controller if necessary) The outbound track is what the non-radar controller uses to ensure procedural separation. Estimates are used to work out whether an aircraft is clear of conflict or not.
I dont see what the problem is. Surely all pilots still look at the time and can remember where they are going and how high they are climbing to?
It takes all of 20 seconds to say it, and I think it is good airmanship to know what time you departed and the track to your destination.
You might be surprised to hear how many aircraft when given climb to an intermediate level, will give a departure report on climb to their planned level, some give the wrong track, some make a 10 min error in the departure time and estimate.
A departure report gives a controller another chance to check that the correct level has been given to the pilot (and coordinated with the next controller if necessary) The outbound track is what the non-radar controller uses to ensure procedural separation. Estimates are used to work out whether an aircraft is clear of conflict or not.
I dont see what the problem is. Surely all pilots still look at the time and can remember where they are going and how high they are climbing to?
It takes all of 20 seconds to say it, and I think it is good airmanship to know what time you departed and the track to your destination.
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Whenever I have not understood a procedure or am interested in the nuts & bolts of why, I've dug out a phone number from the ersa and rung the controller and asked why. I've found most controllers love a chat!
Makes for a better relationship than slagging a controller for something you don't understand. They remember your callsign and know you are making the effort
Makes for a better relationship than slagging a controller for something you don't understand. They remember your callsign and know you are making the effort
'Ere Ya Go Dick........
From the 'orses mouth........Latest CASA Newsletter.....25/8/2010
"Tamworth airspace works well
The classification and operation of airspace at Tamworth aerodrome has been given a tick of approval. CASA’s Office of Airspace Regulation commissioned a study into the levels of risk for operations at Tamworth and any deficiencies that may have existed. The study included interviews with local operators, aerodrome users and other stakeholders, questionnaires and an analysis of air traffic and accident and incident data. Tamworth has aerodrome and approach control services provided by Airservices Australia and when this is operational the controlled airspace is Class D up to 4500 feet. Class C operates from 4500 feet to 8500 feet. The study found Class D procedures appropriate to the Tamworth airspace and the dimensions of the controlled airspace to be adequate. Accident and incident data shows failures to observe air traffic control instructions and violations of controlled airspace to be the most common problems. ; These are mainly caused by human error such as misinterpreting air traffic control instructions. The report recommends CASA continues to conduct education to make sure all pilots understand procedures and develops appropriate training materials.
Read the Tamworth aeronautical study.
See. The study found the Class D procs and the controlled airspace to be 'adequate'.
And that is with (shudder) vertical separation between airspaces............
Which may or may not require DEP reports....
Cheers
From the 'orses mouth........Latest CASA Newsletter.....25/8/2010
"Tamworth airspace works well
The classification and operation of airspace at Tamworth aerodrome has been given a tick of approval. CASA’s Office of Airspace Regulation commissioned a study into the levels of risk for operations at Tamworth and any deficiencies that may have existed. The study included interviews with local operators, aerodrome users and other stakeholders, questionnaires and an analysis of air traffic and accident and incident data. Tamworth has aerodrome and approach control services provided by Airservices Australia and when this is operational the controlled airspace is Class D up to 4500 feet. Class C operates from 4500 feet to 8500 feet. The study found Class D procedures appropriate to the Tamworth airspace and the dimensions of the controlled airspace to be adequate. Accident and incident data shows failures to observe air traffic control instructions and violations of controlled airspace to be the most common problems. ; These are mainly caused by human error such as misinterpreting air traffic control instructions. The report recommends CASA continues to conduct education to make sure all pilots understand procedures and develops appropriate training materials.
Read the Tamworth aeronautical study.
See. The study found the Class D procs and the controlled airspace to be 'adequate'.
And that is with (shudder) vertical separation between airspaces............
Which may or may not require DEP reports....
Cheers
Join Date: Dec 2004
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These days I make a point of flying around Tamworth zone instead of through it. They can never give you a clearance tracking through the zone unless you track directly over the tower, traffic or not.
If I have to divert I might as well just divert around it. A few years ago I was tracking inbound to Tamworth, also inbound was a Lear 45 from Moroochy and a King Air. We were all for arrival within a few minutes, we were given clearences and controlled until we were within about 8 miles from the airfield and knock off time came. Ole mate said sort yourselves out and shut down. Amazing that it was unsafe before the hour of work finishing then all OK to make our own arrangements.
I was working out of Alice Springs when the changes came through in June. The tower man keep asking for departure reports (VFR) after the date of the changes. I let it go for a while then after about four or five days I asked why they were still asked for when they weren't required for VFR departures. He replied it's at his descretion if they were required or not. He never did ask again.
If I have to divert I might as well just divert around it. A few years ago I was tracking inbound to Tamworth, also inbound was a Lear 45 from Moroochy and a King Air. We were all for arrival within a few minutes, we were given clearences and controlled until we were within about 8 miles from the airfield and knock off time came. Ole mate said sort yourselves out and shut down. Amazing that it was unsafe before the hour of work finishing then all OK to make our own arrangements.
I was working out of Alice Springs when the changes came through in June. The tower man keep asking for departure reports (VFR) after the date of the changes. I let it go for a while then after about four or five days I asked why they were still asked for when they weren't required for VFR departures. He replied it's at his descretion if they were required or not. He never did ask again.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Tamworth departure report.
I need a little help from some more experienced pilots. I have read the whole thread and hope someone can help.....
I have a VFR training flight to Tamworth from YSBK next week. I will be departing Tamworth to the north to Manilla ALA into class D CTA.
AIP says I need to give a departure report in "summary of reports" table ENR 1.1 - 45.
Its doesn't say what is required in the report anywhere. ENR 1.1 - 15 says for an IFR departure the report is to include
a. departure time
b. tracking information
c. last assigned level
d. estimate for first en route reporting point
My questions are.
1) What should be in my departure report?
2) Where is my first en route reporting point?
3) When do I give the report? is it when I leave the CTR into the CTA? or soon after takeoff?
Thanks :-)
I have a VFR training flight to Tamworth from YSBK next week. I will be departing Tamworth to the north to Manilla ALA into class D CTA.
AIP says I need to give a departure report in "summary of reports" table ENR 1.1 - 45.
Its doesn't say what is required in the report anywhere. ENR 1.1 - 15 says for an IFR departure the report is to include
a. departure time
b. tracking information
c. last assigned level
d. estimate for first en route reporting point
My questions are.
1) What should be in my departure report?
2) Where is my first en route reporting point?
3) When do I give the report? is it when I leave the CTR into the CTA? or soon after takeoff?
Thanks :-)
If I was unsure, I would ask the instructor who is sapping me $90/hour. The advice you ge here is worth what you have paid for it! 
