Pitch Black
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Is there anywhere around the airport you can go to get a clear view of the action? Is there a lookout or anything where you can see the runway and apron and things?
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The Tower!
If your a pilot(I assume you are) give them a call, you can normally organize visits, that may well be different during the exercise ?? Other wise the eastern end of the runway down nay Winnellie is best.
If your a pilot(I assume you are) give them a call, you can normally organize visits, that may well be different during the exercise ?? Other wise the eastern end of the runway down nay Winnellie is best.
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Amy Johnson has a parking area on the centreline basically.
There's a spare block between air north and something else up past TNT, AAE which is side on.
or play golf on the RAAF golf course if they are taking off towards bagot rd. F111s rattle your teeth
There's a spare block between air north and something else up past TNT, AAE which is side on.
or play golf on the RAAF golf course if they are taking off towards bagot rd. F111s rattle your teeth
Is there anywhere around the airport you can go to get a clear view of the action? Is there a lookout or anything where you can see the runway and apron and things?
where you can smell and hear the outside action. Good view of the runway.
Quote:
Is there anywhere around the airport you can go to get a clear view of the action? Is there a lookout or anything where you can see the runway and apron and things?
In the terminal - upstairs opposite the coffee shop, on the tarmac side is a small SMOKERS area where you can smell and hear the outside action. Good view of the runway.
Is there anywhere around the airport you can go to get a clear view of the action? Is there a lookout or anything where you can see the runway and apron and things?
In the terminal - upstairs opposite the coffee shop, on the tarmac side is a small SMOKERS area where you can smell and hear the outside action. Good view of the runway.
You can smoke and drink after passing through security until you board your flight
Don't think the other domestic terminals have the same facilities. You used to be able at Perth but they closed off that option about 5 years ago. Not sure about the others.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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whats everyone elses records?
Bottums Up
Today:
'Reduce not above 250 kits'.
'reduce not above 210 kits'.
'Reduce to min approach speed'.
Get to min approach, on the LOC, about 2500' and,
'go around, maintain rwy track, climb to 4000'.
Then, multiple TCAS paints as well as T/A as a flock of military fast jets descend through our level, as we climbed through theirs, with I'd estimate less than a mile's lateral separation. Followed by a 40 nm circuit. 
'Reduce not above 250 kits'.
'reduce not above 210 kits'.
'Reduce to min approach speed'.
Get to min approach, on the LOC, about 2500' and,
'go around, maintain rwy track, climb to 4000'.
Then, multiple TCAS paints as well as T/A as a flock of military fast jets descend through our level, as we climbed through theirs, with I'd estimate less than a mile's lateral separation.
Followed by a 40 nm circuit.
T/A as a flock of military fast jets descend through our level
Don't worry, Dick will make the next exercise in Class E. Only a vanishingly small chance of a midair then.
Bottums Up
Bloggsie,
There was a mumble or two. How'd you know?
Mind you, Bloggs was given some minutes notice that it was going to go pear shaped.
Speaking of the Y Generation ...
There was a mumble or two. How'd you know?
Mind you, Bloggs was given some minutes notice that it was going to go pear shaped.
Originally Posted by SkyNews
Ahhh, the Y generation.
They are something aren't they.
No fooling you guys
They are something aren't they.
No fooling you guys
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"with I'd estimate less than a mile's lateral separation"
Saw that with my own two eyes....BULLS%$T FLAG has been raised. Stop talking rubbish Claret.
You were also well above the cct! "GO AROUND AT 2500'"???
But don't let me stop your great story.
Also why did you need a LOC??? WX was standard dry season mate.....Just saying.
Saw that with my own two eyes....BULLS%$T FLAG has been raised. Stop talking rubbish Claret.
You were also well above the cct! "GO AROUND AT 2500'"???
But don't let me stop your great story.
Also why did you need a LOC??? WX was standard dry season mate.....Just saying.
Bottums Up
Well mate next time I'm instructed to reduce to min approach well above the circuit, or cleared "29 ILS", or told to "go around", I'll argue the toss & tell them a flogged horse told me I shouldn't be doing it. Shall I?
You saw it but did you hear it too? What was your estimate of the lateral separation? Just asking...
You saw it but did you hear it too? What was your estimate of the lateral separation? Just asking...
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I did hear it. I was behind you.
"I'll argue the toss & tell them a flogged horse told me I shouldn't be doing it. Shall I?" Remind me where I told you not to comply with ATC instructions again?
"What was your estimate of the lateral separation? Just asking..."... 2.3NM min but what would I know??
I'm not saying the flow is perfect but if XX (note double figures) of jets can recover in the time it takes you to fly a full 29ILS then I'm just saying maybe there is a way through your upper echelons that you could request more of a practical pattern entry for your ops. I'm not throwing spears at what you do at all!! I understand that you're not going to throw it onto final at full cooker. I'm just saying that before you start kicking and screaming about a breakdown of separation (less than a mile is total BS), you might consider to attempt trying to break the norm that lies between you and DN ATC.
Again, not a personal attack but lets leave the sensational claims to the lurking media that seem to lie round these traps shall we?
"I'll argue the toss & tell them a flogged horse told me I shouldn't be doing it. Shall I?" Remind me where I told you not to comply with ATC instructions again?
"What was your estimate of the lateral separation? Just asking..."... 2.3NM min but what would I know??
I'm not saying the flow is perfect but if XX (note double figures) of jets can recover in the time it takes you to fly a full 29ILS then I'm just saying maybe there is a way through your upper echelons that you could request more of a practical pattern entry for your ops. I'm not throwing spears at what you do at all!! I understand that you're not going to throw it onto final at full cooker. I'm just saying that before you start kicking and screaming about a breakdown of separation (less than a mile is total BS), you might consider to attempt trying to break the norm that lies between you and DN ATC.
Again, not a personal attack but lets leave the sensational claims to the lurking media that seem to lie round these traps shall we?
Last edited by Flogged Horse; 30th Jul 2010 at 19:36.
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I guess the ATSB report will reveal all, won't it. Be watching with interest. As for why do a LLZ in VMC, read the star and your questions will be answered.
I recall about 18 yrs ago departing Darwin and was passed reasonably close to an Australian Airlines 737. I leveled off and questioned my clearance, the approach controller advised we had more than 5 nm. I had excellent eyesight back then, as I could read the rego on the rear from 5 nm apparently.
No point questioning military minds, they are never wrong, just ask one.
I recall about 18 yrs ago departing Darwin and was passed reasonably close to an Australian Airlines 737. I leveled off and questioned my clearance, the approach controller advised we had more than 5 nm. I had excellent eyesight back then, as I could read the rego on the rear from 5 nm apparently.
No point questioning military minds, they are never wrong, just ask one.
Bottums Up
Well i guess I'd better defer to your distance judgement, there's no way i could pick the distance to a tenth of a nm.
I'm still confused though. If you saw and heared it, you must know we were on the ILS because that's what we'd been cleared for, and that we were in the landing configuration. What else would you call the manoeuvre where one climbs away from the runway, and reconfigures from landing to enroute configuration?
And just to be clear, I don't know what the separation was which is why I estimated it to be less than a mile. I'm surprised that it was 2.3 miles but even that is less than the 3 nm separation that I understand is required. From where I sat it looked very close.
I'm still confused though. If you saw and heared it, you must know we were on the ILS because that's what we'd been cleared for, and that we were in the landing configuration. What else would you call the manoeuvre where one climbs away from the runway, and reconfigures from landing to enroute configuration?
And just to be clear, I don't know what the separation was which is why I estimated it to be less than a mile. I'm surprised that it was 2.3 miles but even that is less than the 3 nm separation that I understand is required. From where I sat it looked very close.
Flogged Horse sounds like a very sensitive chappy (or breath test at 0130?). Claret did say "estimated".
If an RPT jet at 2500ft on final, fully configured, then has to bugger off out of the way for some minutes, then that's piss-poor sequencing, regardless of what the knucks were doing.
Not looking forward to when he does attack someone... 
If an RPT jet at 2500ft on final, fully configured, then has to bugger off out of the way for some minutes, then that's piss-poor sequencing, regardless of what the knucks were doing.
Again, not a personal attack but lets leave the sensational claims to the lurking media that seem to lie round these traps shall we?
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Sequencing issues aside, just because there was less than a 3nm radar standard doesn't mean there was no separation.
3nm by radar is intended to achieve at least 1nm in reality (which means you can be just 1nm from another aircraft if a procedural standard was applied (eg 1 north of, and the other 1nm south of, a line feature etc).
In your case, separation was more likely achieved visually (by the TWR, by the military pilots having you in sight and maintaining their own sep etc - they do make a living out of sighting and not crashing into other acft after all, although they do usually shoot them out of the sky....
)
And yes, I have worked DN APP (loved it!), but, alas, am no longer there so don't know the particulars of this case. If you are truly concerned, you should ASOR/ESIR it.
3nm by radar is intended to achieve at least 1nm in reality (which means you can be just 1nm from another aircraft if a procedural standard was applied (eg 1 north of, and the other 1nm south of, a line feature etc).
In your case, separation was more likely achieved visually (by the TWR, by the military pilots having you in sight and maintaining their own sep etc - they do make a living out of sighting and not crashing into other acft after all, although they do usually shoot them out of the sky....
)And yes, I have worked DN APP (loved it!), but, alas, am no longer there so don't know the particulars of this case. If you are truly concerned, you should ASOR/ESIR it.
