Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!

[The Green Goblin]

Looks like they will get it then hey!

Pity, from memory TAC spent a bit of money upgrading the facilities from when I poked my head in that hangar last, (was it around 2005 it was upgraded?).

I wonder who the new tenants will be? perhaps RACWA can sell their lot and move into the TAC facilities

[ContactMeNow]

There is a superstition in aviation, you never paint the hangar floor. (else you will go broke)

Guess who has a painted hangar floor!

Last visit out to YPJT I noticed a few places has painted hangar floors;

• RFDS - These guys don't count though do they?
• PLA - never seen them so busy, several 402's running out each day
• JFC - Painted several days after their latest accident, many aircraft parked up each day.

RACWA tried to charge me to look at their hangar so I cannot comment.....

Didn't TAC just get a DA40 online not too long ago? Or was this a x-hire?

CMN

[Icarus2001]

Sub $200 is not a sustainable rate

The hire rates are too low

Logic would say that having a comfortable tax status should mean LOWEST rates at YPJT not HIGHEST

RACWA and TAC are/were the most expensive on the strip.

You guys are incredible. You are arguing the complete opposite of each other so clearly you cannot both be right.

Those who know their history will know that the club has had some hard times over the years but has pulled through. They will again.

[doobedoo]

TAC has (had) two DA-40's, not crosshired.

Sad to see what was once a great place to train go down in the way it has - it really used to have the best crew on the strip.

I feel for the employees that stuck it out until the end, I hope no-one is too far out of pocket this close to christmas.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Re: TAC; Sad to see that the malise in east-coast G.A. - where the flying schools are dropping like flies, is spreading west as well.
Rather than a race to the bottom, all Flight Schools and Charter companies need to start charging realistic rates for aircraft and Instruction in order to meet costs and make a little profit.
It won't happen of course - until we eventually get to a point where there are just 2 or 3 operators at the bigger airports like YMMB, YSBK and YPJT. I understand YBAF is already at that point where attrition has reduced the number of schools there to 3 or 4 (correct me if i'm wrong).
Due to Australia being such an expensive country to operate a business, the eventual winner in the lower end of flying may be RAA due to lower costs for instructors, lower maintenance costs and almost no complicance costs (no incredible CASA fees!).

[aussiefan]

I wonder how many students go to the school that has the cheapest rates? When I was looking, I went for the school rep, spoke to instructors and students and then got onto price. I would happily pay another 20-40 more if that was the rate, especially if that meant the instuctors got a significant amount more.

If the school has good instructors, a good rep and reasonable aircraft then they should get students.

Unless people actually do look primarily on price??

[heated ice detector]

Why don't they resell the the computers that they bought from WAAC,
even with depreciation they should still be worth $750,000.

[ContactMeNow]

Sad to see that the malise in east-coast G.A. - where the flying schools are dropping like flies, is spreading west as well.
Rather than a race to the bottom, all Flight Schools and Charter companies need to start charging realistic rates for aircraft and Instruction in order to meet costs and make a little profit.

Yes and no. There are alot of operator's out thee that work on such fine margins just to stay in business, yet other competitors on the strip charge alot more, but are much busier. You get what you pay for, speaking mainly from charter, companies are more than happy to shell out the extra $$$ to get a higher level of service, nicer aircraft and a suitably qualified and competent charter pilot/instructor.

There are a few operators out there that charge the "going rate" yet they do not pass that revenue onto the pilots (or staff for the matter). One operator out at YPJT is well known for putting younger guys on difficult, heavy charters and the customer feedback isn’t the best (having also flown as a pax on these flights). When asked the pilot for their experience, the reply was alot less than the contracted minimum, plus they were more than happy to inform me that the boss made them pay for their endorsement and that they were not getting paid to do this flight, as it was training for them (training for the airlines that is). This guy doesn't work for free; he does "contract" himself out. This was originally at something that was close to the award, but then a new guy came in and said he will do it for $30/hr. The boss played these two young (20yr old) pilots off against each other - "Johnny said he can do it for $30/hr, so he will get all the work, unless you go cheaper"...think the current rate is $20/hr for flight (air switch only). No pay is given for briefings ("briefings do not make us money") nor are they paid to do admin duties. Admin duties are not considered as "duty time" so you cannot log it, most of the guys are there 6-7 days a week and if they are lucky, they might do 2-5hrs a week of paid work...

I think you will find that the dodgy companies are the ones that not only don’t [pay the award, they take shortcuts with all aspects of their business, lacking the foresight that the money is running out and they will need to pay the bills somehow. The companies that do very well, in general pay the award (and some), have tidy, clean, well maintained aircraft with fantastic facilities.

Chalk and cheese really... Flight training has just become too expensive Australia wide, yet the ones that were busy enough to see the boom a few years ago should have put their money away for a rainy day. It is only going to get worse, before it gets better.

The most upsetting thing is there is not one regulator for all of this. CASA do the aviation compliance, fair work ombudsman does pay and workers rights (when they do speak up). ATO does tax stuff employee super etc. ACCC don’t really care about GA. If these companies actually spoke to each other when bank accounts were low, or numerous complaints from staff etc then alarm bells might go off and all agencies step in. Good chance if your cutting corners somewhere, your doing it elsewhere... Not saying this is what happened at TAC or RACWA for the matter just a general observation[IMG]file:///C:/Users/James/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Maybe its time the government took control of all flight training centres. At least you will know the aircraft get maintained, the staff will get paid and all the rules and regs will be followed. Plus it can be not for profit, so it will be cheaper...But then again CASA couldn't find an aircraft at an airport. Or even work out how to put me on hold for the matter....

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re RACWA JT....

For those members who are interested and who do not receive their 'Tarmac Topics' in time....

Members 'Info Night' at Clubhouse 7pm Wed. 15th Dec.

[Wiley Coyote]

Gentlemen pls check your sidearms at the Reception..........otherwise its gonna be a bloodbath

Wouldn't it be great if the out-going committtee were there and subject to a Q&A sesssion. Then again probably not, they didn't have a fin clue before !!!

[The Green Goblin]

Looks like they can't afford their IT guys, web site has been down for about a week now.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi Mr 'Goblin',

I too noticed that.
So I found that by 'Googling' RACWA Jandakot, then selecting the second, third, or fourth option down, the site does come up OK.

However, I take your point....'Tempo Glitch'..??

Cheers

[jamliner]

Yep it appears the database is down, well according to the error message below anyway. I make that 'guess' based on the fact it is coming from 'data layer' and pConnectionString parameter, it probably contains a database connection string.

Exception Details: CMS.DataLayer.ObjectNotFoundException: Error in the application.

Source Error:An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.
Stack Trace:

[ObjectNotFoundException: Error in the application.] CMS.DataLayer.ContentDB..ctor(String pConnectionString, Int32 pID, enVisibilityPermission pPermission) +228 RACWA.ucContentDisplay.SetupContent() +352 RACWA.ucContentDisplay.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e) +7 System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs e) +67 System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +35 System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +98 System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +98 System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain() +750


NB: <diagnosed by a computer geek come student pilot>

Perhaps I should offer to trade a site fix for a few lessons....

just kidding

[The Green Goblin]

One thing that is really bothering me about the title of this thread is the word FINALS

Do you call it downwinds? Bases? Crosswinds?

It's FINAL!!

[Joker 10]

How long to Administration and protetion for the incoming Directors ????

Then how long to prosecution of the outgoing tribe ???

[FokkerInYour12]

Just because somebody mismanages (even with the best of intentions) this doesn't mean prosecution. Unless we are living in China or Burma? I just see failed business decisions where hindsight has shown it to be wrong. Great thing about that hindsight - it never fails a CASA medical!

[Joker 10]

Depends on the scale of mis management and the intent of the managers at the time, I suspect the "glad handing" of the proposed purchase of new aircraft at the time the club was to all intents insolvent might give rise to the possibility of some reasoned ASIC action.

This is a situation where the assets of the members have been put in the hands of the urserers by the actions of a few who were incompetent.

S 183 of the Corporations Law might well get a run.

[FokkerInYour12]

I heard another Jandakot operator is paying its pilots $15/hr on contract.

[Wiley Coyote]

$15/hr - WOW, the instructors have themselves to blame, accepting employment terms like that. Do you get a crappy brown uniform with that as well ?

[Johnny_56]

Which operator?

Assuming its not RACWA, there are only a couple of other flying schools operating there now (not including CS & SFC). I can't believe that!