Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!

[Awol57]

Wiley I am guessing you have never been an instructor then. When I used to work there 5 years ago or so, for every one hour flight (which is what most of were paid by, whatever the rate was/flying hour) there was usually a 45-50min pre brief, a short debrief (often done walking back to the club so you could be ready to go with the next student who was waiting - longer on the whiteboard if required) then another 10 minutes at least doing an FPR. If it was a nav then the FPR could take 20-30 minutes depending on how the flight went. If it was getting close to a pre license add in another hour or 2 checking through all the paperwork, doing the summaries, checking the hours against the student's logbook etc etc etc.

I reckon it has gotten worse in the last 5 years too. So before being to critical of the "lazy arsed instructors" perhaps walk a mile in their shoes.

Luckily these days I just tell pilots where to go, but it would be a shame to see the club collapse, I did generally enjoy my time working and flying there.

[Sbaker]

RE: ICURAS:

"If the club instructors are casual why should they clean aircraft, they get paid to instruct. If they are full time then maybe they can do other things. Can you really imagine them getting into overalls to clean and then a prospective student walks up and reception can only find one instructor on the ground..."hang on he/she will just need to have a shower and get changed".... come on get real. Most of these guys do other things to help around the club, washing aeroplanes aside."

Bull... I am paid to drive haul trucks up North, but guess what, I still have to get out a high pressure hose and wash all the mud and **** off every now and then, it's all part of the job (and clean the cab after EVERY shift - armourall and windows and all)... with that sort of attitude you would make a fine RACWA instructor... Oh getting out a sponge and cleaning the leading edge and wiping some bugs off the window and spraying some armour all on the dash is going to make them need a shower?.... sounds like you have never cleaned anything either, and also maybe they could have washed a plane instead of sitting on their arse all day in the lunch room talking rubbish... which is the exact reason why you could never find your damn instructor.. because they were hiding in the bloody lunch room....

Also before you take a bash about people taking hits at RACWA from the sidelines, my name is anything but anonymous.. and I stand by what I have said 110% because it is based on a no-bull**** personel experience.

[michaelavatar]

There is a unofficial but plausible behavioral theory for internet forums which goes something like this:

"Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Dickwad " Google it, its a well known saying.

Some people in this thread are here for entertainment purposes only, either to kick a dead horse, try to kill the horse, or convince others to do the same, without actually having any real emotional or financial stake in the horse itself. And they do this for the sole purpose of enjoying the responses of the people who do care.

And if they weren't able to hide behind an alias then this thread would be 3 pages long instead of 21.

Don't feed the TROLLS.

[Clare Prop]

Not all operators are "clubs" (thank goodness) and not all operators have daily minima..ie make the punter pay for flying they haven't done. And those operators are not staring down the barrell of bankruptcy and have happy punters repeatedly hiring their aircraft on a first come first served basis. IT is only an opportunity cost if the aircraft would (not could) have been doing something else...and from where I was sitting there weren't a whole ot of RACWA aircraft in the air today.

Pretty massive margins if someone gets charged for three hours for a day trip to Rotto...so where is the money?

Another case of people accepting RACWA policies as standard industry practice...just not true!

Avclean charge $66 per aircraft detailed and do a fine job.

[Awol57]

I know they exist, but has anyone actually ever been charged this minimum fee?

[Sunfish]

I've never been offered a "daily minimum" type charge, but when I've idly totalled up aircraft utilisation for the preceding weeks, my utilisation was higher, and that was with the aircraft sitting on the ground for Five out of Ten days. Three hours a day minimum sounds a bit steep to me. Two hours sounds more like what I've achieved since I actually like to spend time in the places I visit.

The point I was trying to make is that if your club is optimised for "Instructor earnings" then aircraft are going to sit around and perhaps forgo a Five to Ten day hire because Instructor Bloggs has a Two hour Nav scheduled on day Three.

We seem to get by with a little live and let live and a bit of good will. I usually try and take one of the "orphan" aircraft touring, thus avoiding really screwing up students syllabuses.

I'm also starting to get picky about the quality of instruction since paying $400 for an hours flight with someone who eventually proved to know less about the latest airspace changes around Melbourne than I did.

[Wiley Coyote]

Icarus - sounds like you gonna pop a gasket. Taking this all very personally ????

So you really think the instructors shouldn't be loking after their equipment. Ensuring it is clean and functional. Hah how many of them have even assisted in the maintenance dept. How many of them have pumped their own fuel. Dare i say very few, coz they are too busy running late or texting.

MikeE - love the work. But this forum is here for exactly that.

ClareProp - totally agree with the money grabbing mentality and minimum charges. I do recall AH at RACWA being thrilled that across the fleet of aircraft he had just reported 1.8h/day across the fleet. So a 3 hour min charge....well it certianly is working for the members is it ?

$66 per aircfraft sounds very reasonable to me. They work their guts out in rain or shine. Good on em.

[nottoospicy]

Does anyone know how many more instructors got the flick today?

[Nirak]

Are they actually working with a plan?

How many Racwa staff had to go last week ?

I see there is a new WAAC CGI too, how many are left on that side?

[Aeromuz]

Wiley, you seem to just talk and bitch for the sake of it without any idea of the instructing world.

Firstly how the hell would you know what content is covered in an instructor couse if you have never been an instructor?? Just flapping your gums as usual then huh?

Secondly I have already described my average day when I was an instructor at RACWA (be it a couple years back), if you think training people to fly is easy then you are mistaken. The responsibility is enormous, and as you climb up the instructing ladder it just gets bigger.

Finally how the hell would you know if instructors have ever pumpped fuel or not. I started instructing and (flying for that matter) through the Air force cadets. We always had to fill the aircraft by a hand pump and from drums. Infact I had never seen a bowser or truck until I started flying at JT.

I understand that there are a few lazy guys instructing but they are at any flying school and infact in any industry. To base your opinions on instructors in general based on the lazy few (yes they greatly pi$$ed me off too) is unfair.

Your broad, generalised sweeping statements about instructors makes you sound childish and ignorant. I suggest you talk about subjects that you actually know about rather than making assumptions based on some small window observations.

I am well aware of the flaws RACWA has, but having learnt to fly and worked there for 4 years I will be sad to see the place fold. I met and flew with some truly gifted people (both instructors and students) and I gained some valuable experiences while there. (Yes even from doing stuff in the hangar)

Safe landings

muz

[MooneyManiac]

Nirak - yes they're working to a plan, it's called PANIC - subtitled, Make It Up As You Go Along.

[SOPS]

So, how many people have they layed off?

[flying.monkeyz]

My bet is RACWA will fold up and call it a day by the end of this year.

[Nirak]

Flying.monkeyz

End of the week, month, Q1, Q2 or end of year ?

Please verify.

[MooneyManiac]

Nirak - nobody really knows. At best it's a guess. But a communication to all the staff in the last week or so would suggest that the end of this month is decision time. The bank holds all the cards.

[michaelavatar]

MikeE - love the work. But this forum is here for exactly that.

Thanks WC, I had you in mind when writing it.

Though you are a pretty much harmless troll because as your posts have kind of descended into a mindless rant with things like observations of instructors cars..

Then again, have a look at the carpark. These kids don't even respect their own cars to wash them either

I killed myself laughing when I read this, and no self respecting person would give you any credit from there on, and thats if they hadn't read the rest of the tripe you have been typing away at LOL.

I believe your posts are the ravings of a guy with a major chip on his shoulder. According to you, absolutely everyone at racwa is crap. That is simply not true, nor is it believable. You are simply an internet troll.

Anyways, I liked the Cool Stories Bro, next time try and make it a bit more specific. Add a few dragons or something to spice it up a notch.

[Wiley Coyote]

Thnaks MikeE - glad I'm finally being appreciated

[William Shatner]

Hi All, just to let you know that CASA has aknowledged BR's hard work and will be adopting Racwa's Instructor training course syllabus as the industry standard!. SO....... some good things do come out of the place

That is so wrong, on so many levels. I could almost understand it if CASA's intent was to set the RACWA syllabus as the bare minimum requirement.... Their (RACWA's) instructional approach is to keep feeding the self perpetuating series of myths and misunderstandings which go against the very regulations which are now misunderstood and enforced by a number of ex-RACWA types at the heart of CASA.

With regards to the RACWA minimum flying time for overnight hires... A couple of years ago I was knocking on doors checking prices for a twin for a three day weekend up to Carnarvon and Coral Bay. My last stop was at RACWA, just out of curiosity. I was staggered to find that there was a four hour minimum per day, on top of their over-high rates, on top of their extended endorsement process/check flight, on top of the fact that there was no real guarantee that I would even have the aircraft available to me despite a couple of months advance booking, if and when something else came up in the meantime. Needless to say, they did not get my booking, when there are other operators who are much more reliable, and only charged between $0 and $100 per day minimum (from memory), and were more than happy to help.

There are, and have been for a long time, so many ex-RACWA refugees going across to the other flying schools at Jandakot, carrying tales of woe and ineptitude. The best thing for the other schools at Jandakot are the big marketing pushes by RACWA, with their lovely photos of 747s, and promises of a jet job tomorrow. It generally doesn't take long for many of them to see throught the BS and beat a path to the doors of the other schools.

It would be sad to see what used to be a great club, with plenty of history go down the tubes. But there needs to be a long, hard look at themselves, and get back to the fundamentals.

[DAMouse]

".....an ability to sell all of YMUL (they had a buyer)....."

You mean they were intermediaries? How much was offered by way of downpayment?

[MooneyManiac]

If they had a downpayment and a signed contract of sale, the conversation with the bank would be very different. Talk is cheap.