Jetstar Cadetship
Join Date: Jun 2010
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ahaha I was warned about PPruNe.. full of pathetic and disgruntled GA pilots. How about taking your bitching elsewhere and let this thread fulfill its intended purpose: allowing those of us interested in the cadetship to discuss it. There's plenty of other forums for you to moan on. Have a read of the opening post. If you cant understand the concept of a particular discourse, then it's no wonder you cant understand the potential in this cadet program. Start a forum for yourselves and name it "the only thing I hate more than my life is cadetships".
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I have around 800TT and got invited for the interview stage, but have since declined, Im having a good time in the GA industry so im going to stay here and ill get to the airlines eventually, the only think that really attracts me to the airlines is the salary, but i wish luck to all those who are going through with their applications, im sure there will be many ppl waiting for those succesful applicants to tell the real story
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Two words of warning:
1. Get a private tax ruling to confirm you can pay the training costs back in pre tax dollars.
2. Always be wary of any organisation or business, where the recruitment department works on weekends.
MC
1. Get a private tax ruling to confirm you can pay the training costs back in pre tax dollars.
2. Always be wary of any organisation or business, where the recruitment department works on weekends.
MC
Join Date: Jun 2010
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i did the testing on day 1 and was not successful.
Good luck to the guys going through it - it will be a tough process to get through to get in.
But for me thats $1300 down the toilet....in flights, fee for assessment (what other industry charges you to apply for a job????), accom.... and hire car etc
Its a risk that you take but I suppose if you want to have a chance at it you have to go for it.
I think the scheme has merits. but as mentioned above there are a few question marks about the program.
I dont think they would have been too picky on the number of people in stage 2 as when you think about it - its in their interests to have as many as possible pay for the privilige! (why have 50 people pay to sit an assessment when you can get 200!) And they wouldnt have 20000 applications - that is what the CEO said they were anticipating - but you have to be realistic!
Good luck to all and to those who get accepted - certainly a great opportunity!
Good luck to the guys going through it - it will be a tough process to get through to get in.
But for me thats $1300 down the toilet....in flights, fee for assessment (what other industry charges you to apply for a job????), accom.... and hire car etc
Its a risk that you take but I suppose if you want to have a chance at it you have to go for it.
I think the scheme has merits. but as mentioned above there are a few question marks about the program.
I dont think they would have been too picky on the number of people in stage 2 as when you think about it - its in their interests to have as many as possible pay for the privilige! (why have 50 people pay to sit an assessment when you can get 200!) And they wouldnt have 20000 applications - that is what the CEO said they were anticipating - but you have to be realistic!
Good luck to all and to those who get accepted - certainly a great opportunity!
Join Date: May 2008
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Doing some very rough figures, I am not an accountant and I'm sure it's a lot more complex then this plus I'm making the FALSE assumption that you can neatly deduct both the loan and FEE-help from gross salary.
FALSE because:
The good news is:
Definitely seek some serious financial advice before signing up!
APPFO Course = $124456 = $85062 FEE-HELP + $39394 Loan
A320 Rating = $30000 = $21000 Jetstar + $9000 Loan
Subtotals
$48394 Loans
$16157 Loan interest (10% ??? over 6 years)
$85062 FEE-HELP
$21265 FEE-HELP repayment fee (25%)
Total repayments: $170878
$28480 P/A over 6 years
JFO narrowbody salary = $55454 gross = $26974 after repayments = $23828 net
FOL1 narrowbody salary = $84720 gross = $56240 after repayments = $45818 net
FOL2 narrowbody salary = $92422 gross = $63942 after repayments = $50909 net
I guess the real question is how long it takes to get off JFO and start earning a livable wage?
FALSE because:
DEEWR
Tax deductibility of repayments
Your repayments of HELP debts are not tax deductible.
If your payer makes repayments for you, they may be able to claim a tax deduction. However, they will be liable for Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) on the repayments.
Tax deductibility of repayments
Your repayments of HELP debts are not tax deductible.
If your payer makes repayments for you, they may be able to claim a tax deduction. However, they will be liable for Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) on the repayments.
Bonus for voluntary repayments
If you make a voluntary repayment of $500 or more, you will receive a bonus of 10% of the repayment you make.
If you make a voluntary repayment of $500 or more, you will receive a bonus of 10% of the repayment you make.
Example: Tinka owes $5,250. She makes a $2,500 voluntary repayment. Tinka gets the 10% bonus, so the value of her repayment is now $2,750 ($ 2,500 x 1.10). Tinka’s bonus amount is $2,750 - $2,500 = $250. Her total debt after the payment is reduced to $2,500 ($ 5,250–$ 2,750).
If your total debt is less than $500 and you make a voluntary repayment to pay off the total amount, you will still receive the 10% bonus.
APPFO Course = $124456 = $85062 FEE-HELP + $39394 Loan
A320 Rating = $30000 = $21000 Jetstar + $9000 Loan
Subtotals
$48394 Loans
$16157 Loan interest (10% ??? over 6 years)
$85062 FEE-HELP
$21265 FEE-HELP repayment fee (25%)
Total repayments: $170878
$28480 P/A over 6 years
JFO narrowbody salary = $55454 gross = $26974 after repayments = $23828 net
FOL1 narrowbody salary = $84720 gross = $56240 after repayments = $45818 net
FOL2 narrowbody salary = $92422 gross = $63942 after repayments = $50909 net
I guess the real question is how long it takes to get off JFO and start earning a livable wage?
Last edited by tsubasa27; 19th Jun 2010 at 10:44.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Don't forget that in addition to the 25% "loan fee" the balance of the FEE-HELP debt is increased by the CPI % each year for outstanding balances.
Assuming that the amount repaid to jetstar over the 6 years is taken from gross salary and therefore remaining salary falls beneath the threshold for FEE-HELP repayment, during the initial years the FEE-HELP debt will grow by approx. $97k (ie an additional 12k) assuming no FEE-HELP is repaid in the first 6 years and a CPI of 2.5%.
Consequenty the cashflow will not be as severe as has been suggested.
FEE-HELP will be repaid over a much longer period although the total amount paid will increase significantly.
Assuming that the amount repaid to jetstar over the 6 years is taken from gross salary and therefore remaining salary falls beneath the threshold for FEE-HELP repayment, during the initial years the FEE-HELP debt will grow by approx. $97k (ie an additional 12k) assuming no FEE-HELP is repaid in the first 6 years and a CPI of 2.5%.
Consequenty the cashflow will not be as severe as has been suggested.
FEE-HELP will be repaid over a much longer period although the total amount paid will increase significantly.
You know tsubasa27, those numbers are truely disturbing. It's one thing to slug it out for years in G/A, the low pay, the risks and the general uncertainty of it all. Eventually however one might just make it into a reputable airline, start earning decent money, and finally plan for the future.
It's a completely different thing, at a young age, to mire yourself in debt for a position that not so long ago was considered the end result of all that labour! Now the position is just the beginning, but unfortunately for many it will be the end of the line also. A professional domestic airline pilot earning less than minimum wage, trapped in a position that will garrentee years of financial harship!
Does anyone see the potential for some future psycotic episodes in this?
It's a completely different thing, at a young age, to mire yourself in debt for a position that not so long ago was considered the end result of all that labour! Now the position is just the beginning, but unfortunately for many it will be the end of the line also. A professional domestic airline pilot earning less than minimum wage, trapped in a position that will garrentee years of financial harship!
Does anyone see the potential for some future psycotic episodes in this?
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I must go along with KRUSTY on this one.
A big thank you to all future cadets who will consign right seat jet jobs to the bottom of the food chain.
I offer you all the following to think about when you sign yourselves up to years of debt and the devaluing of your own qualifications
If you do not consider a jet job (either seat) as the pinnacle of a sustainable long term mortgage paying and family raising career then what for you guys is?
If you guys forever consign one seat in jets to training wages then you halve the number of guys who have half a chance of respectably raising families and paying mortgages in the capital cities you are forced to live in.
You will be buying yourself a job that ultimately wont be worth having.
A big thank you to all future cadets who will consign right seat jet jobs to the bottom of the food chain.
I offer you all the following to think about when you sign yourselves up to years of debt and the devaluing of your own qualifications
If you do not consider a jet job (either seat) as the pinnacle of a sustainable long term mortgage paying and family raising career then what for you guys is?
If you guys forever consign one seat in jets to training wages then you halve the number of guys who have half a chance of respectably raising families and paying mortgages in the capital cities you are forced to live in.
You will be buying yourself a job that ultimately wont be worth having.
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I can see the pride and professionalism one might get from flying a big airliner. But you talk to all the captains of today, and they only do it for their financial benefit and most have their own means of fun outside the airlines (aerobatics etc). GA is the most fun you will have flying, real stick and rudder skills. Completely different skill sets to that of flying a big jet.
Once again im not having a go at any cadets or the people who show interest in this program, merely trying to express a point of view for those who havent experience GA yet but are having their minds made up by a glossy brochure
Once again im not having a go at any cadets or the people who show interest in this program, merely trying to express a point of view for those who havent experience GA yet but are having their minds made up by a glossy brochure
For those who haven't heard of the Indian Indentureship do a Google search. Here's an extract about it from Wiki answers
For any one considering the cadetship you need to consider why Jetstar is introducing such a scheme.
Cadetships have been used where there has been a lack of pilots to fill the junior ranks of airlines. That situation does not exist in this part of the world. There are plenty of qualified pilots who could work for Jetstar so why do they need to have a cadet scheme?
The only conclusion I can come to, is to have a source of cheaper labour. In other words undermine what the current pilots are being paid.
I would suggest that any prospective cadet look at what the likes of OAA and CTC have done with the UK cadet market. They have flooded that market with pilots with brand new licences who are unable to find a job or at least a proper full time job. They will do the same here, they will need to train more than just the pilots that Jetstar needs in order to sustain their operations. Their focus is on making money, their marketing is very good but they don't tell you the whole story.
I don't have a problem with cadets as such but I do have a real problem with the promoters of the likes of the Jetstar cadet programme and outfits like OAA, CTC etc.
This was the arrival of East Indians from India to the Caribbean countries to replace the labour after the end of the Atlantic slave. Many Caribbean countries like Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana are a few of the many Caribbean nations that endure Indian Indentureship. Many of the East Indians were paid for their labour but in very very small amounts. The East Indians were promised a better way of life from the life many had in India but many soon came to the realization that their promised life was only a trap to get them to do the hard work the slaves no longer wanted to do.
Cadetships have been used where there has been a lack of pilots to fill the junior ranks of airlines. That situation does not exist in this part of the world. There are plenty of qualified pilots who could work for Jetstar so why do they need to have a cadet scheme?
The only conclusion I can come to, is to have a source of cheaper labour. In other words undermine what the current pilots are being paid.
I would suggest that any prospective cadet look at what the likes of OAA and CTC have done with the UK cadet market. They have flooded that market with pilots with brand new licences who are unable to find a job or at least a proper full time job. They will do the same here, they will need to train more than just the pilots that Jetstar needs in order to sustain their operations. Their focus is on making money, their marketing is very good but they don't tell you the whole story.
I don't have a problem with cadets as such but I do have a real problem with the promoters of the likes of the Jetstar cadet programme and outfits like OAA, CTC etc.
Last edited by 27/09; 20th Jun 2010 at 00:42.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Jetstar Fail
Despite reservations, I applied for the Advanced Cadet Programme. Rejected because 1)MECIR isn't current & 2) No ATPL subjects.
To qualify, my reservations are almost exactly what the last few posts have said about diluting the industry by allowing newbies straight into the RHS of a jet. However, I figured, 6 relatively expensive years later my career would be set.
Looks like I'm sticking it out in GA. Not too worried really, At least this way there will be a sense of satisfaction on receiving a yes letter 5 years down the track and the knowledge of having earned a RHS.
If it sounds too good to be true - it probably is. Good luck to those who get in, hope it goes well. Just a reminder - this is a CHOICE you are making. This is not the only way into the airlines or into a flying job. And if you can afford the debt associated with the ACP or Ab Initio programme then you can probably afford a CPL and go it your own way.
To qualify, my reservations are almost exactly what the last few posts have said about diluting the industry by allowing newbies straight into the RHS of a jet. However, I figured, 6 relatively expensive years later my career would be set.
Looks like I'm sticking it out in GA. Not too worried really, At least this way there will be a sense of satisfaction on receiving a yes letter 5 years down the track and the knowledge of having earned a RHS.
If it sounds too good to be true - it probably is. Good luck to those who get in, hope it goes well. Just a reminder - this is a CHOICE you are making. This is not the only way into the airlines or into a flying job. And if you can afford the debt associated with the ACP or Ab Initio programme then you can probably afford a CPL and go it your own way.
Be warned kids. As far as I understand it, they will pay ‘junior FO’ rates until the cadet holds an ATPL. I’m sure that those considering this path are aware of the requirements to be issued with an ATPL. For those that aren’t, CAR 1988 5.172 states amongst other things:
1,500 hours flight time of which a minimum MUST be 250 hours command or 500 hours ICUS.
Point 1. 1,500 hours of flight time, as FO you can only count 50% therefore 3,000 hours of total aeronautical experience. Expect at least 3.5 years to achieve this.
Point 2. 250 hours command or 500 hours ICUS. I doubt very much that they will be conducting ICUS operations. Perhaps if you were coming up for a command they may include it as part of your command training.
So expect to be on the JFO salary for more than the 6 years unless you already have the command requirements!
Be very careful about where they will base you also. Don’t expect to be living at home with Mum and Dad in Brisbane waiting for your command, expect to be in Darwin or Singapore or whatever new offshore base they will start in the near future.
The most important point of all, airline flying is incredibly boring 99% of the time. GA days are tough and thankless but some of the most enjoyable and rewarding flying you will ever do. You get to fly into places that very few people get to visit, you get to fly over some spectacular scenery that other people pay for the privilege. You will have life experiences and tales to pass onto your children about things that you did rather than things that the jet did while you watched.
1,500 hours flight time of which a minimum MUST be 250 hours command or 500 hours ICUS.
Point 1. 1,500 hours of flight time, as FO you can only count 50% therefore 3,000 hours of total aeronautical experience. Expect at least 3.5 years to achieve this.
Point 2. 250 hours command or 500 hours ICUS. I doubt very much that they will be conducting ICUS operations. Perhaps if you were coming up for a command they may include it as part of your command training.
So expect to be on the JFO salary for more than the 6 years unless you already have the command requirements!
Be very careful about where they will base you also. Don’t expect to be living at home with Mum and Dad in Brisbane waiting for your command, expect to be in Darwin or Singapore or whatever new offshore base they will start in the near future.
The most important point of all, airline flying is incredibly boring 99% of the time. GA days are tough and thankless but some of the most enjoyable and rewarding flying you will ever do. You get to fly into places that very few people get to visit, you get to fly over some spectacular scenery that other people pay for the privilege. You will have life experiences and tales to pass onto your children about things that you did rather than things that the jet did while you watched.
travelator, have they changed the regs? It was my understanding that of the 250 hours command required for the ATPL, 150 hours can be ICUS. That leaves 100 hours of "pure" command to be filled. Most Cadetships provide for approx 70 hours non ICUS command, so that will leave the applicant, without any previous experience, some 30 hours short!
When you consider the numbers put up by tsubasa27, the cadets in question will be flat out paying their light bill let alone finding the money, or the time for that matter, to go out and fly privately the additional 30 hours?
6 years to a pay rise? Try the prospect of never!
When you consider the numbers put up by tsubasa27, the cadets in question will be flat out paying their light bill let alone finding the money, or the time for that matter, to go out and fly privately the additional 30 hours?
6 years to a pay rise? Try the prospect of never!
IMO the cadet in such a program is really a scab. The flying schools used to be full of them working for free all week for a couple of scab hours being thrown at them for flying at a marginal rate.
Those same Pilots that refuse to leave the eastern suburbs in Mummy and Daddys pad will be all over this. They don't want to move north and have to work for a living! This to them is the dreaded truth of aviation that they would try and avoid at all cost. I met heaps of them in the schools.
I have no problem with cadets in the right program where the airline pays and gives you an SO slot with a career ahead.
This program stinks.
J3, love your work about the wannabes hahahaha cracked me up!
Those same Pilots that refuse to leave the eastern suburbs in Mummy and Daddys pad will be all over this. They don't want to move north and have to work for a living! This to them is the dreaded truth of aviation that they would try and avoid at all cost. I met heaps of them in the schools.
I have no problem with cadets in the right program where the airline pays and gives you an SO slot with a career ahead.
This program stinks.
J3, love your work about the wannabes hahahaha cracked me up!
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 20th Jun 2010 at 04:31.
Anyone know what the difference is between doing the ACP with Oxford or CTC?
The handcuffs aint gold anymore, they are made of plastic. Cheap, recyclable and painfully tight.
Management must be sitting around drinking cognac reading this thread having a great laugh at Pilots.