Jandakot Class D changes
There was a meeting last night at RACWA outlining stuff that was not even discussed at CASA roadshow
This is great for people who were at the meeting. But there ought to be adequate online training, information and clear documentation (that doesn't leave many, many questions unanswered) for everyone
Departure calls are required
. Who knows 
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8VA, what are the significant changes that were not captured on the roadshow or published in ERSA?
I will be calling SVFR if the cloud base is low enough that is what CASA said to do! or we will be breaking the rules!
And if JT tower want to cancel my SVFR that's their call..
I will be calling SVFR if the cloud base is low enough that is what CASA said to do! or we will be breaking the rules!
And if JT tower want to cancel my SVFR that's their call..
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Ok guys if you are professional enough you will seek the information that you are not sure about from the correct sources. I suggest you ring the tower manager at Jandakot and talk to him. I could go on forever about what was at the meeting at RACWA but you should have been there. Mostly instructors attended but it was open to all. Discuss the procedures with your instructors.
As for the SVFR, the scenario was given that if you had 5 aircraft out in the training area and the weather was deteriorating on return if one aircraft requested SVFR when is was still VFR it would mean all the aircraft following close behind after it would have to also be svfr. SVFR requires higher separation standards and would cause greater delays for IFR aircraft who are arriving as the SVFR and IFR must be separated. So only ask SVFR when it actually is SVFR.
Airservices are not mandating the departure calls CASA is. Departure Reports are required for IFR aircraft and VFR aircraft that are departing into Class C airspace. No other aircraft are required to give a departure report.
Airservices Australia is the Air Traffic Control service provider and has been tasked by the regulator, CASA to implement Class D procedures at Jandakot.
So to all the grumble butts..You cant rely on the mountain to come to Mohammed so seek and you shall find!!!
As for the SVFR, the scenario was given that if you had 5 aircraft out in the training area and the weather was deteriorating on return if one aircraft requested SVFR when is was still VFR it would mean all the aircraft following close behind after it would have to also be svfr. SVFR requires higher separation standards and would cause greater delays for IFR aircraft who are arriving as the SVFR and IFR must be separated. So only ask SVFR when it actually is SVFR.
Airservices are not mandating the departure calls CASA is. Departure Reports are required for IFR aircraft and VFR aircraft that are departing into Class C airspace. No other aircraft are required to give a departure report.
Airservices Australia is the Air Traffic Control service provider and has been tasked by the regulator, CASA to implement Class D procedures at Jandakot.
So to all the grumble butts..You cant rely on the mountain to come to Mohammed so seek and you shall find!!!
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And if JT tower want to cancel my SVFR that's their call..
AV8, where do I start....
Ok guys if you are professional enough you will seek the information that you are not sure about from the correct sources.
I suggest you ring the tower manager at Jandakot and talk to him.
Departure Reports are required for IFR aircraft and VFR aircraft that are departing into Class C airspace.
Waiting for an IFR clearance is going to take long enough, let alone if your stuck in line behind a VFR asking for the same thing.
Airservices are not mandating the departure calls CASA is.
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I've spent a couple of days on a cheat sheet...(for my customers only 
)then the CASA guy came in today and told me different things to what the tower guy said yesterday...
As for SVFR. it is not the easy way around the D criteria, nor is the tower obliged to give it to you if there are other options.
It's going to be interesting...
)then the CASA guy came in today and told me different things to what the tower guy said yesterday...As for SVFR. it is not the easy way around the D criteria, nor is the tower obliged to give it to you if there are other options.
It's going to be interesting...
Departure calls are only required for IFR departures and VFR into adjoining D CTA (of which there is none at YPJT) and Class C (which you can't do HJ). 95% of our traffic therefore will have no requirement to make a departure call.
As much as it a large change we will be doing our best to help pilots out as well, not persecute you if you make an error. If it is VMC for the first few days most VFR aircraft won't notice a huge change - other than getting taxi clearances - to their flights. What we say to you will be somewhat different but hopefully not to confusing.
As much as it a large change we will be doing our best to help pilots out as well, not persecute you if you make an error. If it is VMC for the first few days most VFR aircraft won't notice a huge change - other than getting taxi clearances - to their flights. What we say to you will be somewhat different but hopefully not to confusing.
I suggest you ring the tower manager at Jandakot and talk to him.
I've spent a couple of days on a cheat sheet...(for my customers only )then the CASA guy came in today and told me different things to what the tower guy said yesterday...
Professional Procedures should not rely on the correct interpretation of heresay on a telephone call... Unless they put in ERSA that all pilots planning to Jandakot must call the Tower Manager for a briefing first!
"Your Honour .... Curly Controller told me that I should have zigged, not zagged"
"Your Honour ... I have no recollection of that discussion"
Professional Procedures should be available clearly and unambiguously in the documents.... full stop.
Professional Procedures should be available clearly and unambiguously in the documents.... full stop.
As always, the CASA spin doctors will stuff it up and it will be up to the industry professionals to wade through the mess and sort it out.
Agreed.
However, is it not time that we say .... enough is enough?
Or, are you happy to clean up CASA's mess ... again?
Is it not time that CASA provide its interpretations, on paper, before implementation?
They obviously have a good reason for bringing in the change ... so they obviously would have thought this through ... so they can obviously answer ALL our questions, on paper ... before implementation.
IF NOT ... rethink the change!
However, is it not time that we say .... enough is enough?
Or, are you happy to clean up CASA's mess ... again?
Is it not time that CASA provide its interpretations, on paper, before implementation?
They obviously have a good reason for bringing in the change ... so they obviously would have thought this through ... so they can obviously answer ALL our questions, on paper ... before implementation.
IF NOT ... rethink the change!
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Departure calls are only required for IFR departures and VFR into adjoining D CTA (of which there is none at YPJT) and Class C (which you can't do HJ).
Will this be required if IFR departing into G on a VFR Departure? (Not clear from any of the material I've seen ...)
You say a VFR into adjoining CTA needs to make a departure report
. That's not what is says in AIP or in the online tutorial, though ...
If it is VMC for the first few days most VFR aircraft won't notice a huge change
And VFRs need to remember, when departing into G, to squawk 3000 until the control zone boundary, then squawk 1200 outside the zone, then reverse the procedure on the way back in from the training area ...
As far as I know you will need to give the full departure call. We haven't been told otherwise.
I can't imagine we are going to give everyone a frequency change, however I did miss that bit so will ask the question.
It might be hugely different but maybe not its very hard to say. I guess we will find out on thursday, but its going to be new for us as well
I can't imagine we are going to give everyone a frequency change, however I did miss that bit so will ask the question.
It might be hugely different but maybe not its very hard to say. I guess we will find out on thursday, but its going to be new for us as well
Common sense is very admirable ... until something goes wrong!
In the event of an incident or accident, CASA/The Courts will revert to the letter of the law ... the documents.
So, if it says ... make a departure call ... I would think very carefully about relying on an alternate common sense action.
If you believe that the common sense action should be the law ... get it changed or get a CASA ruling.
In the event of an incident or accident, CASA/The Courts will revert to the letter of the law ... the documents.
So, if it says ... make a departure call ... I would think very carefully about relying on an alternate common sense action.
If you believe that the common sense action should be the law ... get it changed or get a CASA ruling.
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I really haven't noticed too much change at Jandakot in relation to arrival and departures, I've just got to remember to switch transponder codes, other than that, just arrive and depart via the same routes.
The only time I've felt inconvenienced was a couple of weekends ago it took me about 3-5 mins to get a taxi clearance as I couldn't get a word in with what appeared to be ground and tower(circuits runway) on the same frequency and lots of people talking over each other resulting in re-transmissions and more delays.
The only time I've felt inconvenienced was a couple of weekends ago it took me about 3-5 mins to get a taxi clearance as I couldn't get a word in with what appeared to be ground and tower(circuits runway) on the same frequency and lots of people talking over each other resulting in re-transmissions and more delays.
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As far as I know you will need to give the full departure call. We haven't been told otherwise.
