A career in G.A? Possible...
Thread Starter
A career in G.A? Possible...
G'day,
I'm a commercial pilot with 1000 odd hours and all the usual endorsements. I'm also someone who genuinely enjoys G.A and would be far happier with a career in a 337 than a 737 or a Cessna 340 than a Airbus 340. I do wonder however how realistic this is as an option? Can G.A in Australia continue to survive the inevitable climbing costs of Aircraft maintenance and acquisition for an rapidly aging fleet whilst also absorbing the cost of oil which will surely rise to record levels again the the near future. Is there also a enough of pilots with the desire and attitude required to stay in G.A for the long term to allow the industry to grow safely and impart knowledge onto those moving through the ranks.
I ask as I am currently looking for work and having to ask myself where my next step should be. Hypothetically if I was to gain a position flying singles for the next few years do you think the industry will continue to tighten to the point that the golden 'twin time' may become even harder to attain than it is now and I find myself in a dying industry with no way out due to having too much of the 'wrong type of hours'?
In short - Is there hope for someone who loves G.A?
I'm a commercial pilot with 1000 odd hours and all the usual endorsements. I'm also someone who genuinely enjoys G.A and would be far happier with a career in a 337 than a 737 or a Cessna 340 than a Airbus 340. I do wonder however how realistic this is as an option? Can G.A in Australia continue to survive the inevitable climbing costs of Aircraft maintenance and acquisition for an rapidly aging fleet whilst also absorbing the cost of oil which will surely rise to record levels again the the near future. Is there also a enough of pilots with the desire and attitude required to stay in G.A for the long term to allow the industry to grow safely and impart knowledge onto those moving through the ranks.
I ask as I am currently looking for work and having to ask myself where my next step should be. Hypothetically if I was to gain a position flying singles for the next few years do you think the industry will continue to tighten to the point that the golden 'twin time' may become even harder to attain than it is now and I find myself in a dying industry with no way out due to having too much of the 'wrong type of hours'?
In short - Is there hope for someone who loves G.A?
3000+ Hours and I'm still enjoying it.
I would rather a career in RFDS or Coastwatch than the airlines.
Have you thought of instructing? Sound like your thing if you want to do it well, not just build a few hours until you can move on to a regional or domestic operator. It would be good to see someone bringing genuine charter experience (not just a couple of scenic flights and the odd aerial photo run) back to this part of the industry, rather than commercial graduates teaching out of the textbook.
I would rather a career in RFDS or Coastwatch than the airlines.
Have you thought of instructing? Sound like your thing if you want to do it well, not just build a few hours until you can move on to a regional or domestic operator. It would be good to see someone bringing genuine charter experience (not just a couple of scenic flights and the odd aerial photo run) back to this part of the industry, rather than commercial graduates teaching out of the textbook.
Thread Starter
Mr Buzzy - Long enough to have realised that watching an autopilot is boring as bat ****...
RFDS or Coastwatch are of course the dream!
I would like to instruct but unfortunately I don't have the bottomless bucket of money to throw at another rating...
RFDS or Coastwatch are of course the dream!
I would like to instruct but unfortunately I don't have the bottomless bucket of money to throw at another rating...
Seasonally Adjusted
5000+ hours and I'm still enjoying it.
MadMike...in short, most definitely! It's a good sign when 3 Airline pilots return home to buy and run the GA company they once worked for.
MadMike...in short, most definitely! It's a good sign when 3 Airline pilots return home to buy and run the GA company they once worked for.
Staying in GA for your working life =
1.Poor job security, most of us high timers have had an employer or two go broke.
2.Poor renumeration, try buying a house, supporting a family and providing for your retirement on a GA income.
3.Poor equipment, generally well used
4.Poor safety. Try an engine failure in a C402 vs B737 when at max t/o weight.
5.Poor working conditions, little roster stability, additional duties such as washing aircraft.
6.Poor locations NT, FNQ, WA non Perth.
Whilst there are some nice GA jobs going with reasonable pay and conditions, they are few and far between and competition is stiff. Forget a career on piston engines.
You need at least RFDS or regional left seat to have a reasonable living. Corporate King Air with a good company who want you to stay and pay accordingly if you can find it.
Airline, particularly low cost, isn't what it used to be. But A320/B737 skipper on $150-180 000, living in a capital city beats a knackered PA31 in a remote area with a dodgy employer paying below award.
1.Poor job security, most of us high timers have had an employer or two go broke.
2.Poor renumeration, try buying a house, supporting a family and providing for your retirement on a GA income.
3.Poor equipment, generally well used
4.Poor safety. Try an engine failure in a C402 vs B737 when at max t/o weight.
5.Poor working conditions, little roster stability, additional duties such as washing aircraft.
6.Poor locations NT, FNQ, WA non Perth.
Whilst there are some nice GA jobs going with reasonable pay and conditions, they are few and far between and competition is stiff. Forget a career on piston engines.
You need at least RFDS or regional left seat to have a reasonable living. Corporate King Air with a good company who want you to stay and pay accordingly if you can find it.
Airline, particularly low cost, isn't what it used to be. But A320/B737 skipper on $150-180 000, living in a capital city beats a knackered PA31 in a remote area with a dodgy employer paying below award.
MadMike...in short, most definitely! It's a good sign when 3 Airline pilots return home to buy and run the GA company they once worked for.
It's a good sign when 3 Airline pilots return home to buy and run the GA company they once worked for.
...it's only a sign that pilot's reputations for business accumen are well deserved!
The reality of GA is that you will never make any money working for someone else.
Even if you do own the business, you will need to be 90% businessman and 90% pilot to make it work - yep that's 180% - and if you think the hours suck working in GA, you should try owning the business.
Flight time limits for sure - duty time limits? Forget it. I'm not whinging (I love it) but it's not for everyone.
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If your heart is set on it, then go for it. There will always be plenty of non-airline flying to be done. Especially in this country.
The downsides have all been said in the posts above.
I think over time, you will find yourself in better and better equipment as you become more experienced than those around you.
Dont stress the "golden twin time" thing. American piston twins are no longer being made and are not the way of the future for the successful operators of the future. Eventually you will be in turbines, whether it be a Kingair, 1900 or PC-12 or whatever.
Set yourself up for this kind of flying and target those operators who have been around a bit with strong prospects for the future. Forget about operators who cant invest in new gear. By all means use them as a stepping stone
Think Police, RFDS, Coastwatch, Vincents etc etc.
Good luck.
If I could find a GA job that would pay my mortgages, I'd be there in a flash.
The downsides have all been said in the posts above.
I think over time, you will find yourself in better and better equipment as you become more experienced than those around you.
Dont stress the "golden twin time" thing. American piston twins are no longer being made and are not the way of the future for the successful operators of the future. Eventually you will be in turbines, whether it be a Kingair, 1900 or PC-12 or whatever.
Set yourself up for this kind of flying and target those operators who have been around a bit with strong prospects for the future. Forget about operators who cant invest in new gear. By all means use them as a stepping stone
Think Police, RFDS, Coastwatch, Vincents etc etc.
Good luck.
If I could find a GA job that would pay my mortgages, I'd be there in a flash.
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Goblin
Reading comprehension FAIL.
I said that if they could, I would. They cant, so I'm not.
PS Your habit of continual miss-spelling words with your version of a Kiwi accent was long since past tiresome about 10 years ago. No one laughs anymore. If you want to have a dig at someone, atleast show some creativity.
Reading comprehension FAIL.
I said that if they could, I would. They cant, so I'm not.
PS Your habit of continual miss-spelling words with your version of a Kiwi accent was long since past tiresome about 10 years ago. No one laughs anymore. If you want to have a dig at someone, atleast show some creativity.
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If you want a 'career' in GA then aim at something in a Kingair. Pearl, KFS, RFDS, a charter operator in a capital city. You'll have decent conditions and still be in the GA scene.
Just as an aside every person I've have ever heard say "I just want a career in GA" is either in an airline or quit the industry because they got sick of GA or the money never paid the bills.
I also suspect some people pull out that line because they think it will get them fast promotion in GA so they can move onto an airline quickly.
No do stress about it as none of the airlines or mining companies have changed their requirements in relation to multi engine experience.
Just as an aside every person I've have ever heard say "I just want a career in GA" is either in an airline or quit the industry because they got sick of GA or the money never paid the bills.
I also suspect some people pull out that line because they think it will get them fast promotion in GA so they can move onto an airline quickly.
Dont stress the "golden twin time" thing. American piston twins are no longer being made and are not the way of the future for the successful operators of the future. Eventually you will be in turbines, whether it be a Kingair, 1900 or PC-12 or whatever.
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waren9,
although seppo piston twin (excl. baron and maybe a couple of others), are no longer being made ga_trojan is right - the airlines/mining operators have NOT changed their multi requirements.
Light twins (depsite their age) are still being used widely throughout the country and whilst they are still being used airlines and mining operators will require some multi engine time
The multi engine time is still the "Golden twin time" and will continue to be for the forseeable future.
although seppo piston twin (excl. baron and maybe a couple of others), are no longer being made ga_trojan is right - the airlines/mining operators have NOT changed their multi requirements.
Light twins (depsite their age) are still being used widely throughout the country and whilst they are still being used airlines and mining operators will require some multi engine time
The multi engine time is still the "Golden twin time" and will continue to be for the forseeable future.
Just as an aside every person I've have ever heard say "I just want a career in GA" is either in an airline or quit the industry because they got sick of GA or the money never paid the bills.
Kingair. Pearl, KFS, RFDS, a charter operator in a capital city
-poor job security in a barely viable business
-roster, what's that?
-high turnover of staff
-constantly on 'call'
-operating mainly ancient equipment
-most charter is required to service the remote regions of the country, so therefore the idea of a 'charter' job in a capital city, though possible, is far and few between and generally only available to those who are very patient and very experienced.
-RFDS, Coastwatch etc etc though sounding glamorous ain't necessarily so- swing shifts, tedious midnight retrievals, or 6 hours in a holding pattern over the ocean early in the morning doesn't make for an exciting and glamorous 'GA' life.
I think 'metroman' has already mentioned a lot of the above.
When you haven't done it- it sounds awesome...but years after you did it, with the stories getting taller and the audience getting younger with every telling- it sounds even more awesome!
In short, the hope for someone with 1000 hours who loves GA is to take advantage of that enthusiasm to get onto the next couple of rungs up, that will get you the experience to get you an airline interview when in a couple of years you've got the absolute ****s with GA!
..and then you'll have some awesome stories to share on those long, boring and tedious flights, that make a career in GA sound even better than it was the first time around
Last edited by Compylot; 25th Apr 2010 at 14:29.
It's been a few years since I was at the bottom end of the GA food chain but it was fun & you get a lot of good old fashion experience & meet a lot of characters along the way. I believe you learn more about airman-ship in those years you spend at grass roots level flying.
I would imagine it's not as plentiful as it was many years ago (flying GA machines) but like they say where there's a will there's a way I had the best of both worlds once upon a time. I worked in an allied industry to flying & flew part time to achieve what I have today, the best GA job there is, RUFDUS.Obviously that's not doable for most (two jobs, one flying) so it's up to the individual how bad they want it. I suspect a lot of pilots whom set out to stay in GA ended up in the Airlines for a whole heap of reasons & we each have our reasons as to why &/or why not (the Airlines).
It's not rocket science to fly a plane that's the easy part it's more do you enjoy it enough to struggle thru a good deal of yr working life not getting ahead as fast as yr mates sitting up there in the shinny jet? Now that's an individual thing right or wrong
GA will most likely give you the most fun, but 'fun' doesn't pay the bills as much!
Wmk2
I would imagine it's not as plentiful as it was many years ago (flying GA machines) but like they say where there's a will there's a way
I had the best of both worlds once upon a time. I worked in an allied industry to flying & flew part time to achieve what I have today, the best GA job there is, RUFDUS.Obviously that's not doable for most (two jobs, one flying) so it's up to the individual how bad they want it. I suspect a lot of pilots whom set out to stay in GA ended up in the Airlines for a whole heap of reasons & we each have our reasons as to why &/or why not (the Airlines).It's not rocket science to fly a plane that's the easy part it's more do you enjoy it enough to struggle thru a good deal of yr working life not getting ahead as fast as yr mates sitting up there in the shinny jet? Now that's an individual thing right or wrong
GA will most likely give you the most fun, but 'fun' doesn't pay the bills as much!
Wmk2