YSBK First solo flight ends in crash landing
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It happens in every industry. Thats why you must do due diligence before you sign up to a school. Ask everyone including previous students, thank goodness for the invent of forums such a this. Do your homework thoroughly before parting with your money. I knew of one old coot years ago that used to have his students refill the training aircraft (PA38) with .....MOGAS out of an unfiltered drum! These guys are never successful no matter how long they operate for.
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Remember the old rule for sending a student solo. If you wouldn't put your mother in the plane with them, they're not ready. Granted I only instructed for a couple of years and only started 30ish students but still yet to meet anyone who reaches the standard within 10 hours.
This is not WWII and its not the 1950s. This is the age of laws and litigation. As an instructor you need to be confident that if the
does hit the fan you can stand in front of the coroner, the family of the dead student and say unequivocally that to you had done everything to assure they were to standard. At best stand in front of your CFI and explain why there is a bent plane sitting at the end of the runway.
Personally I want a long and prosperous career in aviation and didn't want to give it away so some kid could toss on to his friends that he went solo in 6 hours. Realistically what is an extra 4-5 hours in 150/200 anyway, who cares if it takes another couple of laps?
This is not WWII and its not the 1950s. This is the age of laws and litigation. As an instructor you need to be confident that if the
does hit the fan you can stand in front of the coroner, the family of the dead student and say unequivocally that to you had done everything to assure they were to standard. At best stand in front of your CFI and explain why there is a bent plane sitting at the end of the runway. Personally I want a long and prosperous career in aviation and didn't want to give it away so some kid could toss on to his friends that he went solo in 6 hours. Realistically what is an extra 4-5 hours in 150/200 anyway, who cares if it takes another couple of laps?
Ive heard of that old rule eoc but truth be known there are a lot of CPL holders I wouldnt send my family with. 
As you said though, one needs to be confident that they could justify that everything had been done to standard, and possibly in a court of law.
More importantly though, as my old CFI used to say, be sure that you would be able to sleep at night if something were to happen. If you are blaming yourself then you aren't likely to be able to convince others not to blame you.
As you said though, one needs to be confident that they could justify that everything had been done to standard, and possibly in a court of law.
More importantly though, as my old CFI used to say, be sure that you would be able to sleep at night if something were to happen. If you are blaming yourself then you aren't likely to be able to convince others not to blame you.
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Well said Eco!!!
Well said Eco!!!
That is exactly how it is!
My father told me - if you were happy to send your family up there with them while they did there solo..then they are ready!
Sitting on the "scare chair" as instructors call it - means sitting on the chair, fingers crossed, coz your licence is up there with them. Coronors court was always at the back of my mind!
That is exactly how it is!
My father told me - if you were happy to send your family up there with them while they did there solo..then they are ready!
Sitting on the "scare chair" as instructors call it - means sitting on the chair, fingers crossed, coz your licence is up there with them. Coronors court was always at the back of my mind!
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I wouldn't send my family up with any of the students I have soloed... they know JUST enough to get around the circuit safely... if anything were to go wrong, they might make it, but given the level of nervousness most first solos feel, the chances of panic or a skill deficit are high...
I also wouldn't send my family up with a lot of CPLs, but that's another story...
I also wouldn't send my family up with a lot of CPLs, but that's another story...
Moderator
...actually it's a bit more objective than that.
They have to reach the required comeptencies in the syllabus and that takes as long as it takes, so rather than using the old "would you send your family" etc you actaully have a measurable bit of evidence that they are ready.
I also got taken to task by CASA for not sending them as soon as they were competent and moving on to other bits of the syllabus instead. I had to explain that the delay was actually in waiting for the wheels in Canberra to grind around and produce the student licence, ASIC and medical...things that used to be done by the CFI and the DAME and took minutes rather than months...
They have to reach the required comeptencies in the syllabus and that takes as long as it takes, so rather than using the old "would you send your family" etc you actaully have a measurable bit of evidence that they are ready.
I also got taken to task by CASA for not sending them as soon as they were competent and moving on to other bits of the syllabus instead. I had to explain that the delay was actually in waiting for the wheels in Canberra to grind around and produce the student licence, ASIC and medical...things that used to be done by the CFI and the DAME and took minutes rather than months...
I haven’t instructed for 15 years but it was pretty much as remoak and CFI have said. Items in the syllabus had to have been covered and their circuits were at a level of consistency that was predictable and safe. Would I put family in the aircraft with them? No, but I was confident that they weren’t going to hurt themselves, the aircraft or anyone else using the airspace with them. I had a number of students that went solo in under 10 hours and one that went solo in 8. Having said that I had one that eventually went solo in 30 hours and before the Nazis get on here and tell me I was ripping him off I sat down with the gentleman at 15, 20 and 25 hours and explained to him he was above the average and asking him if he wanted to continue. I have never seen someone so over the moon the day I eventually sent him solo.
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The 'ol tomahawk I soloed in soldiered on for another year or so before someone finally found the cracks in the spar and grounded it 
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Not luck....luck has nothing to do with it, it is good solid training, which covered every possible scenario
When you've tried every emergency...
I have sent thousands solo...
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I overhead someone talking today that apparently knew someone that actually saw this happen (from where I didn't hear...) ...apparently at the time, wind was 18 to 20kts from 260 with a X of 10Kts, Rwy was 29L.....Also (apparently) both occupants walked with no injuries, a bit of fuel spill that closed YSBK for a while and not too much damage to the A/C.....thank goodness for all that...could've been a hell of alot worse...
It could be all wrong of course, it's just what I heard....after all, this is a rumour based website...
Stiky
It could be all wrong of course, it's just what I heard....after all, this is a rumour based website...
Stiky
Last edited by Stikybeke; 13th Apr 2010 at 23:03.
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No probs Remoak....
Actually you were quite right...sometimes I need a reality check to bring me back into line...My fingers shouldn't go where my brain hasn't been..(is that the saying?)....from the looks of that picture though perhaps there might have been some merit in that conversation....and while I'm on a roll here....'YSBK First solo ? flight ends in crash landing.." I'm sure that bloke said they both walked away......
Regardless, at least he/she/solo/flight under instruction/ whatever....is/are OK....that's the main thing..
Enjoy,
Stiky
Actually you were quite right...sometimes I need a reality check to bring me back into line...My fingers shouldn't go where my brain hasn't been..(is that the saying?)....from the looks of that picture though perhaps there might have been some merit in that conversation....and while I'm on a roll here....'YSBK First solo ? flight ends in crash landing.." I'm sure that bloke said they both walked away......
Regardless, at least he/she/solo/flight under instruction/ whatever....is/are OK....that's the main thing..
Enjoy,
Stiky
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... and you can be pretty sure that they won't do it again!
Does look like a classic porpoise/nose gear collapse though... not that it takes much to bend the nose gear in a 152. Damage looks pretty minor.
Isn't that what they call a "leaning jowler"? (let's see who gets that reference...!)
Does look like a classic porpoise/nose gear collapse though... not that it takes much to bend the nose gear in a 152. Damage looks pretty minor.
Isn't that what they call a "leaning jowler"? (let's see who gets that reference...!)