Chemtrails?
"All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as self evident.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ridicule. If you good people could stop ridiculing and actually read a little you may discover that aside from the asinine, the ignorant and the plain pathetic spin surrounding this subject there is some evidence for chemtrails; at least to have happened in the past. That some part of the industrial-military complex may still be doing this somewhere in the world is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Thinking persons will read this article in its entirety with an open mind: So You Don't Believe in Chemtrails
But no doubt very few of you will bother to read the article to the end. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with you believing in "Iraq's weapons of mass destruction", "we are in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban", "politicians never lie" and "the banks have your best interests at heart".
Ridiculing your fellow man is nothing more than ignorance. (Even if he is a dipstick).
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ridicule. If you good people could stop ridiculing and actually read a little you may discover that aside from the asinine, the ignorant and the plain pathetic spin surrounding this subject there is some evidence for chemtrails; at least to have happened in the past. That some part of the industrial-military complex may still be doing this somewhere in the world is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Thinking persons will read this article in its entirety with an open mind: So You Don't Believe in Chemtrails
But no doubt very few of you will bother to read the article to the end. I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with you believing in "Iraq's weapons of mass destruction", "we are in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban", "politicians never lie" and "the banks have your best interests at heart".
Ridiculing your fellow man is nothing more than ignorance. (Even if he is a dipstick).
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sad thing is, its not ridicule, its FACT, that contrails, are exactly that, CONDENSATION trails...
it comes out of your mouth on cold mornings, your car exhausts.... aircraft exhaust in cold atmosphere.....
it will never be accepted as self evident, it simply doesn't exist...
the world is still flat you know....
and dont give me that "your brainwashed by them" bull****, i spent 15 yrs building those engines and maintaining those aircraft. the only chemical trail, might be a slow leak from the toilet tank dump point.. the rest is simply water vapour resulting from the burning of jet fuel, AKA Kerosene.
it comes out of your mouth on cold mornings, your car exhausts.... aircraft exhaust in cold atmosphere.....
it will never be accepted as self evident, it simply doesn't exist...
the world is still flat you know....
and dont give me that "your brainwashed by them" bull****, i spent 15 yrs building those engines and maintaining those aircraft. the only chemical trail, might be a slow leak from the toilet tank dump point.. the rest is simply water vapour resulting from the burning of jet fuel, AKA Kerosene.
Last edited by Ultralights; 25th Mar 2013 at 11:02.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NSW
Age: 64
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But Aussie Bob, is it alright to believe lies presented as truth right at the beginning? The article you send us to talks about things we all know about...cloud seeding and efforts to change the weather have been going on for more than 60 years. No conspiracy there...it's well publicised and well known science.
It also introduces a conspiracy by talking about stuff that clearly has not happened because there would have been outrage and mass uprising! EG the aerosol campaign against mainland UK. If that information had been released at the end of the 50 years official secrecy then the UK tabloid press would have destroyed democracy in a day.
The truth is that the science of contrails is well understood, and everyone who has an understanding of the atmosphere...specifically those who have flown at high altitudes, knows there are persistant and non persistant conditions whereby contrails can quickly dissipate if non persistant, but they will stay there for hours if the conditions allow. The idea that this has changed in the last few decades is not a true observation. Contrails have always been persistant or non persistant...or somewhere in between, entirely dependent on atmospheric conditions.
Are you suggesting we accept falseness simply because someone has made it up? The photos presented as evidence of chemtrails should more appropriately be seen for what they are, photographs of con-trailing in phenomenal conditions. The complex patterns are evidence of aircraft manoeuvre (possibly military exercises?) and the differing sizes relate to varying altitudes and persistency conditions. No real mystery...no conspiracy...just science.
It also introduces a conspiracy by talking about stuff that clearly has not happened because there would have been outrage and mass uprising! EG the aerosol campaign against mainland UK. If that information had been released at the end of the 50 years official secrecy then the UK tabloid press would have destroyed democracy in a day.
The truth is that the science of contrails is well understood, and everyone who has an understanding of the atmosphere...specifically those who have flown at high altitudes, knows there are persistant and non persistant conditions whereby contrails can quickly dissipate if non persistant, but they will stay there for hours if the conditions allow. The idea that this has changed in the last few decades is not a true observation. Contrails have always been persistant or non persistant...or somewhere in between, entirely dependent on atmospheric conditions.
Are you suggesting we accept falseness simply because someone has made it up? The photos presented as evidence of chemtrails should more appropriately be seen for what they are, photographs of con-trailing in phenomenal conditions. The complex patterns are evidence of aircraft manoeuvre (possibly military exercises?) and the differing sizes relate to varying altitudes and persistency conditions. No real mystery...no conspiracy...just science.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central Hub
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have got to be kidding? Ridicule in this case is actually phase two, if you went to the effort to read the entire thread you'd see that 90% of the posters have actually tried to educate "chemtrailers" on the reality and have been called sheep, ignorant and operatives of the governments. The posters here with backgrounds in airlines, airforce and geoscience.
There is a MASSIVE difference between cloud seeding or geoengineering experiments and chemtrails; the former two exist and are well documented, the latter is not only implausible, its physically impossible. If they had even the simplest concept of combustion, the GT engine, weight limitations and organic chemistry, they'd move onto the next crazy conspiracy.
When you've gone out of your way to help educate someone and they abuse you for the effort, you might as well take the piss.
There is a MASSIVE difference between cloud seeding or geoengineering experiments and chemtrails; the former two exist and are well documented, the latter is not only implausible, its physically impossible. If they had even the simplest concept of combustion, the GT engine, weight limitations and organic chemistry, they'd move onto the next crazy conspiracy.
When you've gone out of your way to help educate someone and they abuse you for the effort, you might as well take the piss.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably been covered before, but there are many chemtrail believers who point to the fact that contrails can appear in apparently dry-air conditions (ie, no clouds or visible water vapour present), thus negating the possibility that they have anything to do with condensation or water vapour.
I'm just stunned and amazed that there are so many people out there who have no clue what the principle byproducts of combusting hydrocarbon fuels are.
Somewhat bizarrely for a pilot, I loved chemistry in high school and uni.
I'm just stunned and amazed that there are so many people out there who have no clue what the principle byproducts of combusting hydrocarbon fuels are.
Somewhat bizarrely for a pilot, I loved chemistry in high school and uni.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
Aussie Bob, you forget that most of the people on this forum are aviation experts, something that no chemtrail believer is.
Therefore they know the practical difficulties, nay impossibilities of doing what chemtrail believers is happening.
As an example, the following link is a scientific study done back in 1972. Its prosaic title masks an undeniable truth. Chemtrailing is impossible because no aircraft can physically lift the weight of ice contained in a mature persistent contrail. Therefore, to make a "chemtrail" which contained enough say, aluminium to make a trail of the same opacity as a persistent contrail, the weight of the chemtrail would be up to four times more.
Read the abstract: http://="http://ciresweb.colorado.ed...llenberg72.pdf
A mature persistent contrail that lasts for an hour contains up to four orders of magnitude the weight of water (ice) that can be expected to be emitted from the exhaust due to the combustion process. That means for a mature persistent contrail from a 747, over 100,000 tons of ice (that is not a misprint) is contained in it.
A 747 weighs approx 400 tons fully loaded.
You tell that piece of hard science to any chemtrail believer and you get a uniform response... They ignore it. You tell them all the other bits of aviation arcana that also comprehensively destroys the theory, they also ignore that as well.
They are not interested in any hard science that refutes their beliefs. They are somewhat similar to religious fundamentalists in that regard.
So, what do you believe?
Therefore they know the practical difficulties, nay impossibilities of doing what chemtrail believers is happening.
As an example, the following link is a scientific study done back in 1972. Its prosaic title masks an undeniable truth. Chemtrailing is impossible because no aircraft can physically lift the weight of ice contained in a mature persistent contrail. Therefore, to make a "chemtrail" which contained enough say, aluminium to make a trail of the same opacity as a persistent contrail, the weight of the chemtrail would be up to four times more.
Read the abstract: http://="http://ciresweb.colorado.ed...llenberg72.pdf
A mature persistent contrail that lasts for an hour contains up to four orders of magnitude the weight of water (ice) that can be expected to be emitted from the exhaust due to the combustion process. That means for a mature persistent contrail from a 747, over 100,000 tons of ice (that is not a misprint) is contained in it.
A 747 weighs approx 400 tons fully loaded.
You tell that piece of hard science to any chemtrail believer and you get a uniform response... They ignore it. You tell them all the other bits of aviation arcana that also comprehensively destroys the theory, they also ignore that as well.
They are not interested in any hard science that refutes their beliefs. They are somewhat similar to religious fundamentalists in that regard.
So, what do you believe?
Somewhat bizarrely for a pilot, I loved chemistry in high school and uni.
BSc(Chem).
Mwahahahaha!!!
Igor, give me flaps ten and commence the mind control agent dispersal!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
We may laugh, but those propagating this hoax are starting to have an effect on some of their believers.
Advocating violence against "Chemtrail" planes
Advocating violence against "Chemtrail" planes
We may laugh, but those propagating this hoax are starting to have an effect on some of their believers.
Aussie Bob,
The article link that you posted simply shows the ignorance out there. The majority of the videos are Tanker Enemy productions. This guy is making money hand over fist out of the misrepresentation of aviation. He lies simply to get hits and the gullible and naive lap it up.
The original "KC-10 spreading chemtrails" spoof video.
The video shows a KC-10 forming an aerodynamic contrail.
KC-10 aircrew channel
USAFFEKC10A's channel - YouTube
Italian chemtrail buffoon and his manipulation of the video. Tanker Enemy (Rosario Marciano) shows his complete ignorance of aviation when he starts trying to identify 'spraying nozzles' on the KC-10. This is the ignorance that is out there.
KC-10 aircrew response
The article link that you posted simply shows the ignorance out there. The majority of the videos are Tanker Enemy productions. This guy is making money hand over fist out of the misrepresentation of aviation. He lies simply to get hits and the gullible and naive lap it up.
The original "KC-10 spreading chemtrails" spoof video.
The video shows a KC-10 forming an aerodynamic contrail.
KC-10 aircrew channel
USAFFEKC10A's channel - YouTube
Italian chemtrail buffoon and his manipulation of the video. Tanker Enemy (Rosario Marciano) shows his complete ignorance of aviation when he starts trying to identify 'spraying nozzles' on the KC-10. This is the ignorance that is out there.
KC-10 aircrew response
Last edited by TEEEJ; 27th Mar 2013 at 12:36.
Thread Starter
There are some idiots in this world who will believe anything...
DF.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's concerning so many people believe this ****e.
I can immediately conjure up many many arguments in my head to discredit anything one of those nutters might claim, but the most simple one (which I have posted on their fb pages and been blocked for) is this: Of all of the ways an evil public hating government bent on destruction could poison its people, why on earth would they spend the time and money and resources on such an obvious, but highly ineffective and unpredictable method? We aren't going to poison your water supply. We aren't going to poison your crops. We won't come into your bedroom while you sleep and inject you in the arse cheek with some nasties. No, we'll fly a big plane for all to see across the sky and spray some crap out the back, and hope it lands on you
I can immediately conjure up many many arguments in my head to discredit anything one of those nutters might claim, but the most simple one (which I have posted on their fb pages and been blocked for) is this: Of all of the ways an evil public hating government bent on destruction could poison its people, why on earth would they spend the time and money and resources on such an obvious, but highly ineffective and unpredictable method? We aren't going to poison your water supply. We aren't going to poison your crops. We won't come into your bedroom while you sleep and inject you in the arse cheek with some nasties. No, we'll fly a big plane for all to see across the sky and spray some crap out the back, and hope it lands on you
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
There is a quasi-religious aspect to this as far as the belief system of the adherents go. Logic doesn't come into it and they simply ignore what others would consider to be compelling points.
One of the worst is an american called Russ Tanner who runs globalskywatch.com
Tanner is a true believer who calls pilots who challenge him liars, even though he has no aviation or met expertise. He claims to be able to smell the chemicals after the "spray" has happened. His followers on his FB page are becoming more virulent in their posts. They are now actively discussing ways to bring down aircraft.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/glob...2731325025302/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
One of the worst is an american called Russ Tanner who runs globalskywatch.com
Tanner is a true believer who calls pilots who challenge him liars, even though he has no aviation or met expertise. He claims to be able to smell the chemicals after the "spray" has happened. His followers on his FB page are becoming more virulent in their posts. They are now actively discussing ways to bring down aircraft.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/glob...2731325025302/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
jesus christ. It is scary people are stupid enough to get this fanatical about it here in Aus
If there's one in Brisbane I'll try to go and tell anyone that they try to 'convert' that they're talking rubbish.
Anyone else want to come?