Rough CPL costs from scratch?
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Rough CPL costs from scratch?
Hi guys,
I am just wondering what one would recommend another to pay for their training - from scratch right up until the end of their CPL training (150hour syllabus lets say). Nothing fancy added onto it except a NVFR.
I just want to know at what point I'd consider a school to be charging way too much? 50grand? 70g? 100g? For both a smaller flying school and one of the larger contracted ones. And are the rumours of the big "sausage farms" costing over 100 or 120k to finish a bare CPL true?
I am in Melbourne looking around atm.
Thanks
I am just wondering what one would recommend another to pay for their training - from scratch right up until the end of their CPL training (150hour syllabus lets say). Nothing fancy added onto it except a NVFR.
I just want to know at what point I'd consider a school to be charging way too much? 50grand? 70g? 100g? For both a smaller flying school and one of the larger contracted ones. And are the rumours of the big "sausage farms" costing over 100 or 120k to finish a bare CPL true?
I am in Melbourne looking around atm.
Thanks
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How longs a piece of string :P I have heard so many different fiqures. Depends on how you pick it up just because it says 150 hours doesnt mean thats it. Thats just the minimum from casa i believe. My mate told me to work what the CPL 150 is and then add 10 grand to be safe for extras exams etc etc and u should be safe. U can get alot prices from the flying schools from googling :P
Whilist the bare training would be around 50k, it's the incidentals that kill you.
For instance:
MECIR = 18k (no progression without it)
SEFIR = 14k (if no charter work is happening this is your other option)
Headset > $500
Exam Text books $500
Exams (CPL) $1000
Exam Text books ATPL $3000
Exams (ATPL) $1400
Airservice Publications $500
Jepps $800
Maps Charts $500
CASA Fees (bend over)
Multi Engine endorsements $2000 a pop (Average) *good operators cover these.
Loss of income while searching 'up north' for a job. Bonds on rentals, fuel, travelling accommodation.
Lets not even talk about Jet type ratings at over 30k a pop, or paying out a bond to a company if you need to move on quickly after they have paid your Braz endorsement etc etc.
Bottom line, you'll be over 100k by the time you end up in the right seat of a Jet.
It's worth it, but at times on the journey you shake your head and wonder how you ever got yourself into this mess especially if you are working for an arse or you are being promised things that are not happening.
For instance:
MECIR = 18k (no progression without it)
SEFIR = 14k (if no charter work is happening this is your other option)
Headset > $500
Exam Text books $500
Exams (CPL) $1000
Exam Text books ATPL $3000
Exams (ATPL) $1400
Airservice Publications $500
Jepps $800
Maps Charts $500
CASA Fees (bend over)
Multi Engine endorsements $2000 a pop (Average) *good operators cover these.
Loss of income while searching 'up north' for a job. Bonds on rentals, fuel, travelling accommodation.
Lets not even talk about Jet type ratings at over 30k a pop, or paying out a bond to a company if you need to move on quickly after they have paid your Braz endorsement etc etc.
Bottom line, you'll be over 100k by the time you end up in the right seat of a Jet.
It's worth it, but at times on the journey you shake your head and wonder how you ever got yourself into this mess especially if you are working for an arse or you are being promised things that are not happening.
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It's in the Maths...
Work out the hours you're going to need. That is, Dual and Solo, and in what aircraft type (i.e. Your CPL flights and test must be in a CSU aircraft).
I'm guessing you'll come up with a figure of around 35 - 40k.
Just for your flying.
And, that's assuming you're some kind of god who wont fail anything, will pick up the lesson to a professional standard first go, wont have any breaks in your instruction due personal situations, weather etc, etc.
As mentioned, not that many pilots manage to do a 150 hour course in 150 hours. You'd be well advised to add around 10% to that.
Then there's all the other costs:
Class 1 medical (the first one can be VERY expensive)
Licence costs/logbook stickers
Publications (AIP, CAR's CAO's, update services, etc)
Theory Books/Classes (depending on if you can study at home)
Charts (WAC's, VTC's, VNC's, etc)
ASL exam fees
Together, these will be AT LEAST $2,500.00, and more likely in the region of $4000.00
And then all the other stuff:
Navigation equipment (protractor, computer, calculator, etc)
Other equipment (Flight bag, fuel drain, Log book)
Headset and bag
IMHO, you wont get much change out of $50k, and budget for 60k, to avoid disappointments.
The Moorabbin airport website has links to flying training organisations:
Moorabbin Airport - Melbourne Australia.
But that's just to get a "bare boned" CPL. If you want to be "employable", as well, add:
NVFR and Instructor rating (20k?),
and/or
Multi and MECIR (20 - 25k)
and/or
up to 100hrs more flying to get above many companies minima (maybe some C200 time in there as well)
and then you're up to spending around the 80k mark.
Now, these are BALL PARK figures, and I'm sure that there are Pruners out there who've done it all for less, or have lucked a job with 150 hours, but these are typical spending amounts, IMHO.
Good luck
DIVOSH!
P.S: (Edit after GG's post): Forgot ATPL theory. Best DO IT before going for your first job. Cost at least $5-6k (including exam fees, theory books/course if you can't self study)
I'm guessing you'll come up with a figure of around 35 - 40k.
Just for your flying.
And, that's assuming you're some kind of god who wont fail anything, will pick up the lesson to a professional standard first go, wont have any breaks in your instruction due personal situations, weather etc, etc.
As mentioned, not that many pilots manage to do a 150 hour course in 150 hours. You'd be well advised to add around 10% to that.
Then there's all the other costs:
Class 1 medical (the first one can be VERY expensive)
Licence costs/logbook stickers
Publications (AIP, CAR's CAO's, update services, etc)
Theory Books/Classes (depending on if you can study at home)
Charts (WAC's, VTC's, VNC's, etc)
ASL exam fees
Together, these will be AT LEAST $2,500.00, and more likely in the region of $4000.00
And then all the other stuff:
Navigation equipment (protractor, computer, calculator, etc)
Other equipment (Flight bag, fuel drain, Log book)
Headset and bag
IMHO, you wont get much change out of $50k, and budget for 60k, to avoid disappointments.
The Moorabbin airport website has links to flying training organisations:
Moorabbin Airport - Melbourne Australia.
But that's just to get a "bare boned" CPL. If you want to be "employable", as well, add:
NVFR and Instructor rating (20k?),
and/or
Multi and MECIR (20 - 25k)
and/or
up to 100hrs more flying to get above many companies minima (maybe some C200 time in there as well)
and then you're up to spending around the 80k mark.
Now, these are BALL PARK figures, and I'm sure that there are Pruners out there who've done it all for less, or have lucked a job with 150 hours, but these are typical spending amounts, IMHO.
Good luck
DIVOSH!
P.S: (Edit after GG's post): Forgot ATPL theory. Best DO IT before going for your first job. Cost at least $5-6k (including exam fees, theory books/course if you can't self study)
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 20th Mar 2010 at 06:37. Reason: Added a bit
God it's almost depressing reading the replies here
Those figures quoted should be more like house prices!
"Foodstamps" that nic name alone means yr destitute
!
Just some food for thought here you say nothing fancy added on (that statement goes with 'foodstamps') but have you considered doing yr flying training all the way to CPL at a small country airstrip say just outside of Melb?
Some of the fancy Melb schools are like Myers shop front windows, lots of overheads that need yr bucks to keep them that way
Just as an Eg & this is NOT me flogging a product just something to consider as well as what's being toted here (options, good word to remember in aviation) I belong to an aero club about an hr Nth of Melb & they charge I think $210 an hr dual for a basic C172. Don't quote me on that figure but it's about that. Working on the 150 hrs + 10% most say here that would be needed to complete a course (unless yr a budding space shuttle pilot) that's around $35K. Okay add in all the incidentals as mentioned here (those costs remain the same even at pilot sausage factory outlets & it's way less than what's being quoted here. Remember at the end of the day it's all about hrs & the training behind them. I'd say (personal opinion here only) that a 150 hr sausage factory pilot will be a product of "get them in & get them out" skills (adequate I guess sadly) where as a pilot who has shared the experiences of a mature instructor that can pass on something that now sadly lacks everywhere, AIRMAN-SHIP as well as the one on one caring from the same guy who started you from day one 'till he shakes yr hand & says congrats, yr a CP
.
Again options, you would do well to remember that single word as you progress thru a life long career in aviation, without them you won't be right here like some of us old buggers are now trying give free advice thru hard earned experience!
Good luck & spend big anyway, the aviation industry at GA level needs bucks & lots of 'em!
Wmk2
Those figures quoted should be more like house prices!
"Foodstamps" that nic name alone means yr destitute
!Just some food for thought here you say nothing fancy added on (that statement goes with 'foodstamps')
but have you considered doing yr flying training all the way to CPL at a small country airstrip say just outside of Melb?Some of the fancy Melb schools are like Myers shop front windows, lots of overheads that need yr bucks to keep them that way
Just as an Eg & this is NOT me flogging a product just something to consider as well as what's being toted here (options, good word to remember in aviation) I belong to an aero club about an hr Nth of Melb & they charge I think $210 an hr dual for a basic C172. Don't quote me on that figure but it's about that. Working on the 150 hrs + 10% most say here that would be needed to complete a course (unless yr a budding space shuttle pilot) that's around $35K. Okay add in all the incidentals as mentioned here (those costs remain the same even at pilot sausage factory outlets & it's way less than what's being quoted here. Remember at the end of the day it's all about hrs & the training behind them. I'd say (personal opinion here only) that a 150 hr sausage factory pilot will be a product of "get them in & get them out" skills (adequate I guess sadly) where as a pilot who has shared the experiences of a mature instructor that can pass on something that now sadly lacks everywhere, AIRMAN-SHIP as well as the one on one caring from the same guy who started you from day one 'till he shakes yr hand & says congrats, yr a CP
.Again options, you would do well to remember that single word as you progress thru a life long career in aviation, without them you won't be right here like some of us old buggers are now trying give free advice thru hard earned experience!
Good luck & spend big anyway, the aviation industry at GA level needs bucks & lots of 'em!
Wmk2
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Gday
my bare CPL was 165 hours and cost me 68k. To become employable of course, you'll need an MECIR and whatever multi endorsements or extra shiny things you can afford to tack on your license.
I did CPL, tailwheel and MECIR with RNAV, and the night time required for NVFR (but not the test). 235 total in the end, 88k.
It will be more or less obviously depending on your chosen school's rates. If you can find somewhere with C200 series aircraft or similar that may well be advantageous, if slightly more expensive.
Cheers
Aero
my bare CPL was 165 hours and cost me 68k. To become employable of course, you'll need an MECIR and whatever multi endorsements or extra shiny things you can afford to tack on your license.
I did CPL, tailwheel and MECIR with RNAV, and the night time required for NVFR (but not the test). 235 total in the end, 88k.
It will be more or less obviously depending on your chosen school's rates. If you can find somewhere with C200 series aircraft or similar that may well be advantageous, if slightly more expensive.
Cheers
Aero
Whispering "T" Jet
what one would recommend another to pay for their training
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No matter what a school says to you, don't pay up front. Pay hour per hour.
Before you ask "what price?"
You need to ask yourself honestly "Am I a motivated person?"
If you think you are an extremely motivated person goto the cheapest, small aeroclub that is struggling for students. You'll be able to book flights whenever you want, self study and you can knock out a CPL in 6-9months.
Budget 40K-55K
If you decide your not the best self studier(I fall into this category) your going to need to go the one of the big schools that run organised classes/airline training.
Budget 50-90K++
If you want to be an instructor do your last 40 command hours in a twin.
Some money saving tips
-Go and get your ASIC and medical now, as in today.(It's not uncommon for students to be delayed up to 3 months, imagine that cost of that!)
-Learn all your checks and radio calls 100% before your first flight
-study the next flight sheet in your training file so you know whats going on before you get into the briefing room.
-A Carton of beer to borrow someones books is cheaper then buying your own.
-Try Ebay/pprune for things like jepps/CAO's/CAR's etc. Just check they haven't missed amendments. Students always sell CAO's/CAR's after they finish training and pilots sell there Jepps when they get into airlines.
-Live close to the airport and tell the instructors "If you get a cancellation call me". Instructors are always happy to teach keen students and you'll get through faster.
-buy a copy(any version) of flight simulator and use it once you get into the IFR stage of your training.
Before you ask "what price?"
You need to ask yourself honestly "Am I a motivated person?"
If you think you are an extremely motivated person goto the cheapest, small aeroclub that is struggling for students. You'll be able to book flights whenever you want, self study and you can knock out a CPL in 6-9months.
Budget 40K-55K
If you decide your not the best self studier(I fall into this category) your going to need to go the one of the big schools that run organised classes/airline training.
Budget 50-90K++
If you want to be an instructor do your last 40 command hours in a twin.
Some money saving tips
-Go and get your ASIC and medical now, as in today.(It's not uncommon for students to be delayed up to 3 months, imagine that cost of that!)
-Learn all your checks and radio calls 100% before your first flight
-study the next flight sheet in your training file so you know whats going on before you get into the briefing room.
-A Carton of beer to borrow someones books is cheaper then buying your own.
-Try Ebay/pprune for things like jepps/CAO's/CAR's etc. Just check they haven't missed amendments. Students always sell CAO's/CAR's after they finish training and pilots sell there Jepps when they get into airlines.
-Live close to the airport and tell the instructors "If you get a cancellation call me". Instructors are always happy to teach keen students and you'll get through faster.
-buy a copy(any version) of flight simulator and use it once you get into the IFR stage of your training.
And just to 'back' Wally,
At a country airstrip,
- generally there are no delays awaiting your turn to T/O,
- your wheels leave the ground, and you are IN the training area,
- circuit patterns can be kept 'concise' - i.e. very few 'cut lunch' circuits which almost become 'navexs'...
- smaller organisation can equate to more 'personal' tuition,
etc etc
At least you will probably get 'more bang for your buck'...
Good Luck, whichever you decide.
At a country airstrip,
- generally there are no delays awaiting your turn to T/O,
- your wheels leave the ground, and you are IN the training area,
- circuit patterns can be kept 'concise' - i.e. very few 'cut lunch' circuits which almost become 'navexs'...
- smaller organisation can equate to more 'personal' tuition,
etc etc
At least you will probably get 'more bang for your buck'...
Good Luck, whichever you decide.
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HH
Would lease him my identity for that - and he could get a flying start ..
- but it would come with a warning, ' like Microsoft - contains personality traits'..
and I might want it back undamaged..
Well no .. seriously.. I wont
Would lease him my identity for that - and he could get a flying start ..
- but it would come with a warning, ' like Microsoft - contains personality traits'..
and I might want it back undamaged..
Well no .. seriously.. I wont
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shop around...
I know of a school in Moorabbin that offers an all inclusive CPL, instructor rating and MECIR for around $78k.
Bare CPL is around $40-50k
CPL and MECIR around $62k
Bare CPL is around $40-50k
CPL and MECIR around $62k
