How do you purchase your own plane??
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Sprocket, yes you can and I'm sure many do, one must be careful with how the machine is used if it isn't certified of course. Generally, experimental machines can only be used for the purchase of converting pilots on the type in question.
As some others have said, i think the biggest question is what does one want out of owning the machine? Work out what you want, and then set about how you are going to get it. Personally, I can't be bothered with certified aeroplanes and setting up full fledgling businesses, too much stress, too much money, and if one isn't careful it all gets out of control and the fun quickly vanishes...
Our machine is experimental, and my next purchase will definately be experimental for the same reasons!
And it can work, loaning the machine to a flying school, as long as you do the instructing in it!
As some others have said, i think the biggest question is what does one want out of owning the machine? Work out what you want, and then set about how you are going to get it. Personally, I can't be bothered with certified aeroplanes and setting up full fledgling businesses, too much stress, too much money, and if one isn't careful it all gets out of control and the fun quickly vanishes...
Our machine is experimental, and my next purchase will definately be experimental for the same reasons!
And it can work, loaning the machine to a flying school, as long as you do the instructing in it!
Join Date: May 2007
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Cleared is right. 100 hours seems to be the break even point between hiring and owning. The up side-always there for you.
Downside-if you want to fly anything else, you'll be still having to pay for it.
M14-what's your aircraft type?
sc
Downside-if you want to fly anything else, you'll be still having to pay for it.
M14-what's your aircraft type?
sc
I'm interested like Happy Bandit's original post too ... and just wondering the processes involved from someone who has been through the purchase riot 
So like buying a car, what are all the checks required until handing over the coins??
So like buying a car, what are all the checks required until handing over the coins??
- Research various models you like ...
- Get a Pre-Purchase done, preferably by 2 seperate engineers.
- Logbook research on remaining times and future maintenance.
- If going ahead with purchase, how do you find if money owed on it??
- What are the companies that are out there for insurance?
- Is there a section with CASA that make rego change easy?
- Maybe get finance approved too - whose best for plane purchasing?
- what others have I missed out that i need to look at if i buy soon ... ??
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So like buying a car, what are all the checks required until handing over the coins??
- Research various models you like ... yep... but most are so old now and choice is quite limited so you may not get the exact model or year you want and will probably end up compromising if you find something you like in good nick
- Get a Pre-Purchase done, preferably by 2 seperate engineers. Why two? Just make sure you have confidence in whoever does it - find out who is reputable and who is not. Some LAME's are good at what they do but quite 'unprofessional' and quite justifiably scared of being sued. Watch carefully. Be wary of what is not properly documented e.g. damage history
- Logbook research on remaining times and future maintenance. Should be essential part of any PPI.
- If going ahead with purchase, how do you find if money owed on it?? Tricky! CASA only record the cert of reg holder and registered operator. Some banks insist their name goes down as cert of reg holder but CASA registration does not prove clear title at all. If in doubt you might need to undertake some kind of title search and investigate the seller. (rare to find problems but not impossible).
- What are the companies that are out there for insurance? Basically only three: QBE Aviation, Asset Insure and Alliance(?) There are many brokers but they all go to the same insurers - once one company has quoted to one broker - thats it, they wont negotiate with anyone else and you're stuck with that quote and that broker. So if a broker gets you quotes from all three....(stinks!)
- Is there a section with CASA that make rego change easy? Yes, all forms are on th CASA website (aircraft register) - costs rip off $160.. you need similar proof of identity as for an ASIC. You need the previous cert of reg holder to sign his art of the form. Then get forms from Airservices and Avdata to make sure bills come to you
. - Maybe get finance approved too - whose best for plane purchasing? You'd have to be nuts to lend or borrow money on an aircraft IMHO but have sold several planes to people who have gone directly to the major banks.
- what others have I missed out that i need to look at if i buy soon ... ?? That should do it... be patient and you get what you pay for (at best). Very cheap planes are usually cheap for a reason. Be wary of brokers.... Mostly they are straight if rather self interested.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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You should buy a Recreational Aircraft. There are many places on the internet with suitable friendly information about them, just google Recreational Flying for more information. Much cheaper than GA type.
especially one about insurance companies!Join Date: Nov 2006
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Cost of Periodic Inspections (100 hrly/annual)
Fixed gear single = 20 hours labour
Retract single = 24 hours labour
Most maint. places in this part the country seem to charge $85 ex GST per hour
Rectifications of faults found during inspections are additional.
One annual we did about a year ago on a C150 turned out to be about $10K because the thing had been let go a fair bit. It needed alot of control cables replaced due corrosion. It's txpndr needed repairs. It needed $1500 worth of new exhaust parts, a new gascolator bowl etc etc etc. And what was the whole aeroplane worth???
Buy a common Cessna or a Piper - most maint. places will have the data for these and a good range of spares too.
If it's in charter category, its engine & associated components must be overhauled at the required intervals. If in Airwork or Private category then engine can run on condition. Some LAMEs have a problem signing out engines past manufacturers TBO - especially under some hangarkeepers insurance policies. Insurance for charter category is greater because you need a minimum of $1M per passenger liability cover too.
Keeping it IFR means that a LAME with Electrical, Instrument and Avionics Licences must sign it out at each periodic inspection and any at maintenance that is in these categories. If the aircraft is VFR then your Airframe LAME can sign it out for periodics.
Fixed gear single = 20 hours labour
Retract single = 24 hours labour
Most maint. places in this part the country seem to charge $85 ex GST per hour
Rectifications of faults found during inspections are additional.
One annual we did about a year ago on a C150 turned out to be about $10K because the thing had been let go a fair bit. It needed alot of control cables replaced due corrosion. It's txpndr needed repairs. It needed $1500 worth of new exhaust parts, a new gascolator bowl etc etc etc. And what was the whole aeroplane worth???
Buy a common Cessna or a Piper - most maint. places will have the data for these and a good range of spares too.
If it's in charter category, its engine & associated components must be overhauled at the required intervals. If in Airwork or Private category then engine can run on condition. Some LAMEs have a problem signing out engines past manufacturers TBO - especially under some hangarkeepers insurance policies. Insurance for charter category is greater because you need a minimum of $1M per passenger liability cover too.
Keeping it IFR means that a LAME with Electrical, Instrument and Avionics Licences must sign it out at each periodic inspection and any at maintenance that is in these categories. If the aircraft is VFR then your Airframe LAME can sign it out for periodics.
Last edited by kingtoad; 17th Feb 2010 at 03:21.
Join Date: May 2007
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kingtoad:
Some good info there, though 4-5k for a simple, single engine non retractable is excessive. I have seen aircraft come from a 100 hourly costing 9k looking and flying worse than before it. It seems maintenance in this country has slipped a looong way down in quality. It is more about stacking the hours and covering ass than providing good service and serviceability. CASA also don't help by keeping the club exclusive.
Avionics as has been mentioned elsewhere is another story altogether.
Maybe I should be seriously looking at building/buying experimental.
Some good info there, though 4-5k for a simple, single engine non retractable is excessive. I have seen aircraft come from a 100 hourly costing 9k looking and flying worse than before it. It seems maintenance in this country has slipped a looong way down in quality. It is more about stacking the hours and covering ass than providing good service and serviceability. CASA also don't help by keeping the club exclusive.
Avionics as has been mentioned elsewhere is another story altogether.
Maybe I should be seriously looking at building/buying experimental.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Maintenance is something that has to be done right.
In my years of ownership maintenance experience, I have found that the critical thing is a good working relationship with your maintenance outfit.
Sure, I have paid more than I should have at times when a new LAME has been employed, and had to learn my particular aircraft 'on the job', at my expense.
A discussion with the owner will usually result in a reduced bill next time. I've always paid, but made my dissatisfaction clear.
Over time you will build up a good relationship, and if the LAME's are on the ball, the bills will be reasonable.
Tips I can offer are:
Don't take a complicated twin into somewhere that mainly does simple singles - you will pay for the guys to learn on the job.
Get recommendations from other owners.
Most LAME's realise you are the one paying their wages - be reasonable and so will they. If they're incapable, then find someone else.
I have taken the step in the past to tell an owner that I don't want xxxx working on my aircraft. Usually that person won't be working there much longer because either other customers tell the owner or the owner wakes up all by him/herself.
There is no substitute for long term relationships with your maintenance outfit. Moving from pillar to post will always cost you a bomb, at least the first time.
In my years of ownership maintenance experience, I have found that the critical thing is a good working relationship with your maintenance outfit.
Sure, I have paid more than I should have at times when a new LAME has been employed, and had to learn my particular aircraft 'on the job', at my expense.
A discussion with the owner will usually result in a reduced bill next time. I've always paid, but made my dissatisfaction clear.
Over time you will build up a good relationship, and if the LAME's are on the ball, the bills will be reasonable.
Tips I can offer are:
Don't take a complicated twin into somewhere that mainly does simple singles - you will pay for the guys to learn on the job.
Get recommendations from other owners.
Most LAME's realise you are the one paying their wages - be reasonable and so will they. If they're incapable, then find someone else.
I have taken the step in the past to tell an owner that I don't want xxxx working on my aircraft. Usually that person won't be working there much longer because either other customers tell the owner or the owner wakes up all by him/herself.
There is no substitute for long term relationships with your maintenance outfit. Moving from pillar to post will always cost you a bomb, at least the first time.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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The cheapest part about "owning" an aircraft is buying the bloody thing.Maintenance (scheduled and unscheduled) Insurance, hangarage (If you can't afford a hangar you can't afford an aircraft.....Christ you put your Commodore in a shed! Operating costs, landing fees, twr fees enroute fees (IFR) etc etc.
My first question to someone asking for advice on aircraft ownership is " Can you afford it?" You must look at the fixed costs and the variable costs.
Second question is "What are you going to do with it?" Will you be flying it for business or pleasure for more than 100hr per yr.
Finance: Buy outright, lease, Comm HP, Chattel mortgage, secured loan (security over real estate) and others.
Don't let your heart rule your head, answer honestly and if you can't REALLY justify it.....continue to hire. It is an expensive business, not a game.
