How much do you spend?

[cam81]

Hi all,
I know there is a post about how to buy your own plane, but what I am wondering is if you dont, how much do you spent a year on your flying hobbie? I started out wanting to do cpl, (second guessing that now) then I thought do a ppl and maybe look at buying a plane. I am a mechanic and think it would eat up all of my disposable income. so I guess in short. If you have your ppl, dont own you own plane, have a 'normal' paying job and lifestyle. how much do you spend a year on this hobbie.

thank you for your kind advice in advance

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I always figured that if you aren't doing at least an hour a week (50 hrs a year), you are kidding yourself!

So - whatever 50 hrs costs in what you fly.

Dr

[girl with a stick]

Hmmm, cam81, I see it as more of an addiction than a hobby, tantamount to perhaps putting $200 a week in a pokie machine, or having a fine Scotch habit...

I'm working on the CPL in the hope that one day I can be paid to fly. I sold my business to fund it, and it will be many years (if ever) before I earn decent money, and yet I don't regret it.

Meantime, I'd say if you fly once a week, and factor in the cost of maps, equipment and getting to and fro the aerodrome (depending on where you live, and what you fly) would cost around $250 a week.

Good luck,

GWAS

[TLAW]

I reckon the Dr is about right - so figure $7500-$15000 per annum.

[tail wheel]

When I learned to fly I spent around $450 in the first year. Of course, in those days a DHC1 Chipmunk cost £4/10/- per hour, dual ($9/hour), so I guess around 50 hours per year sounds about right!

The Piper PA-22 Tri Pacer and the new, all metal aerobatic Victor Airtourer with a whole 100 horse power up front was only for rich kids!

[Angle of Attack]

Its a good question Cam,
Of course it depends on everyones situation. As for your case regarding a PPL and flying for a hobbie i would say most people would steer clear of VH registered aircraft and go the ultralight/sport variety. Unless of course you need a decent long distance with payload aircraft. It is tough though to keep decent flying hours up with the costs these days.

[M14_P]

Crikey I'd hate to think how much I have spent on weekend flying over the years. Alot.
Wouldn't dear want to try and caculate it but then I think back to all the fun that has been had and think I wouldn't change anything or have spent my money differently.

[sleemanj]

If you are flying for fun, a hobby, then I'd say use recreational aircraft (ultralight, microlight, LSA, whatever you call them there).

But aviation, no matter the breed, is always relatively expensive

[Jabawocky]

RAA Tecnam or similar say $130/hr a C172 $260. If its you and your Mrs or one other, a good Tecnam or Jab is the go. After that its all along the cubed law curve

[Ian Baker]

Recreational Aircraft will be must cheaper, less than half and your hours count towards ATPL.

[sprocket check]

hmm, aviation is a motorsport.

That means it costs money, a fair bit of money, though that is subjective.

As a motorsport, it is relatively similar to other motorsports, eg I know guys who are motorcycle couriers just because they love to ride bikes...

I know aircraft owners who have aircraft just so they can tell others that they have one.... and others who only ever take it out on the odd weekend when it's not raining... just like I know bike riders with $100,000 bikes.

Fickle game this one and not unlike racing cars, boats or motorbikes.

I am led to believe RAAus hours only count towards PPL/CPL, not ATPL. Too lazy to look it up at the moment.

[Horatio Leafblower]

tut tut tut, Sprocket you of all people should know.

RAAus can count for ALL of the experience reqd for PPL, if it is 3-axis controls.

RAAus can count for none of your CPL [CAR 5.111, 5.114]

RAAus can count for "not more than 750 hours" of the 750 required.

[Norwester]

I've often wondered what other people spend too.
Ever since learning I put away NZD350 a month away. My SO calls it the Recreational Savings plan - it was nearly always in the red and I had to fund my other passion (racing mountain bikes) out of it too.
This year I've had to suspend my flying in order to save up for a new mountain bike instead. Worryingly I've not missed flying but that may be in part due to the crappy summer we've had or the attitude of the local aero club and post-PPLs.... but I digress.

[frigatebird]

I'll go with the Dr. and TLAW.
Charge yourself at least $100 an hour and do 100 hours a year (to at least get value from the Annual) if you own your own simple cross country machine with an anticipated long reliable engine life ahead. Do 200 hours if you have more of a need, on private operations. More $/hr for the more sophisticated types. Or at least $200 an hour (or more), if you hire and do 50 hours a year on your private ops. A good mix for a Commercial Pilot would be 800-850 for the Company, and 50-100 hours for yourself to stay sane..! (More would depend on your commercial maximums).

[SokPuppet]

RAAus can count for none of your CPL [CAR 5.111, 5.114]

Have a look at CAR 5.104 (1) (f) (ii) which includes reference to CAR 5.115. Then have a look at the definition of "recognised flight time" in regulation two.

You might then wish to reconsider the 'none' statement, if you so desire.

As for doing a CPL based primarily on RAAus hours though? Probably not the best idea.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Sok Puppet

Thank you for the query - as CFI of both a CPL school and a RAAus school I was pretty confident of my ground. I have revisited the regs and I am still confident - although somewhat less so!


5.104 (1) (f) (ii): A CPL holder must have the experience described in 5.111 or (snip) 5.115

5.111 - a "150 hour" CPL must be flown in a registered aircraft (ie: VH-)

5.115 - must have 100 hours PIC, and 100 hours in a registered (VH-) or recognised (ie: military) aeroplane.

This is where the ambiguity comes in: subregulation 5.115 (4) stipulates that additional flight time to make up the total 200 hours must be flown in:
(a) a registered (VH-) aeroplane;
(b) a recognised (mil) aeroplane;
(c) a Helicopter;
(d) a gyroplane; or
(e) a glider (other than a hang glider).

Although Reg (2) stipulates what RAAus "recognised flight time" is, Reg 5.115 (4) does not list recognised RAAus flight time as an option.

Para (1) (b), (c) and (d) all make explicit reference to a recognised or registered aeroplane, while (1)(a) does not. 5.115(3) and (4) stipulate just about anything except an RAAus aircraft.

Having accrued the experience in (1)b/c/d you then need to make up the 200 hours in a VH aircraft. Are you suggesting that, having accrued 100 hours of RAAus experience before your CPL training you can avoid that requirement, but cannot accrue 100 hours of RAAus time to satisfy that after you satisfy 5.115(1)?

I am not saying you are wrong, nor that I am right -but I think my interpretation is more consistent than yours.

Cheers

[SokPuppet]

Thanks HL.

It's a question that comes up a lot elsewhere.

Answer given is usually no for 150hr CPL commercial course and yes for 200hr CPL gained by other means.

I think it will swing on whether group A RAA aircraft are recognised or not.

Buggered if I know at this point.

Cheers!

[Horatio Leafblower]

Further to my last:

This is extracted from the CASA Flight Crew Licencing Procedure Handbook:

Chapter 3.6 Aeroplane Pilot Licences
Page 3-31

• 150 hours total flown [all in aeroplanes (A)], to
an approved commercial syllabus including:
❍ 70 PIC
❍ 20 cross-country PIC
❍ 10 instrument flight
or
• 200 hours total, including:
❍ 100 PIC *
❍ 100 general (A)
❍ 20 cross-country PIC (A)
❍ 10 instrument flight (A).
* Can be in registered or recognised aeroplanes,
helicopters, gyroplane or gliders (other than hanggliders
or power-assisted sailplane).

[sccutler]

I opt not to calculate what it costs to own my Bonanza; to do so would be a painful reality.

In general, works out to $120/hr +/-.

Ouch.

[Super Cecil]

All you blokes are missing one of the biggest costs, image upkeep. Bomber jacket $1200, new raybans every year $400 (In OZ $120 elsewhere), white shirts with those flappy things on the shoulders $300, gold bars (Five) to go on the flappy things $300, dark blue fletcher jones trousers $400 (I'm not judging here), aviator watch BIG$$$$$ (Skies the limit here). All this before you walk out onto the tarmac, not including wac charts to leave in the car and one of those brief cases things with the biscuts or whatever you carry in them. There's roughly six thousand before you even buy captains car (Porshe or ferrari), lucky you can earn so much being a pilot