PC12 Glide Approach
Norfolk V's Derby
Very well done Captain, I would be happy to be flying with her any day
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Some facts
It's great to finally see some sensible discussion, instead of the sales talk we got for too long.
1.Turbine negines are more reliable than piston engines, but they do sometimes fail.
2. twin engined aeroplanes (even piston engined ones) can usually fly to an airfield and land safely after an engine failure, if they are flown correctly. The performance margins are usually greater for turbine powered aeroplanes.
3. single engined aeroplanes are generally simpler than twins, and so less mistakes are made in singles.
My first logbook records 5000 hours, mainly in piston singles, and I only remember two engine failures. One was finger trouble, and the other was a loose throttle cable. (in the middle of the Tanami desert) Although one (new)aircraft I used to fly did suffer a broken camshaft about 100 hours after it had flown the Pacific on it's delivery flight. I was not flying it at the time.
Engine failures occur in all types of aeroplanes, with all types of engines, big or small.
Sometimes the facts get buried under the detail and the sales talk.
1.Turbine negines are more reliable than piston engines, but they do sometimes fail.
2. twin engined aeroplanes (even piston engined ones) can usually fly to an airfield and land safely after an engine failure, if they are flown correctly. The performance margins are usually greater for turbine powered aeroplanes.
3. single engined aeroplanes are generally simpler than twins, and so less mistakes are made in singles.
My first logbook records 5000 hours, mainly in piston singles, and I only remember two engine failures. One was finger trouble, and the other was a loose throttle cable. (in the middle of the Tanami desert) Although one (new)aircraft I used to fly did suffer a broken camshaft about 100 hours after it had flown the Pacific on it's delivery flight. I was not flying it at the time.
Engine failures occur in all types of aeroplanes, with all types of engines, big or small.
Sometimes the facts get buried under the detail and the sales talk.
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About the PC12
I have never flown one, but this aircraft has some obvious advantages for airmedical work. The main one is the big, electrically operated door for loading stretcher patients on a standard ambulance stretcher, so no moving patients from one stretcher to another. And the pilot can close the door easily from the outside, and then enter via the crew door at the front. There is no need to get past the medics and patient to get up front.
This is probably a bigger factor than the economy of one engine.
This is probably a bigger factor than the economy of one engine.
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Hello bushy,
Sorry to disillusion you but watching Central Division loading their PC12s' and they still have to transfer the patient from the ambulance to the aircraft stretcher. The aircraft stretchers have small castor wheels on the bottom to enable it to be moved sideways which the ambulance ones don't need to do.
I think they are looking for a common stretcher system though to avoid the problem.
Agree with you about the large cargo door though. So easy to operate in comparison to the B200.
so no moving patients from one stretcher to another
I think they are looking for a common stretcher system though to avoid the problem.
Agree with you about the large cargo door though. So easy to operate in comparison to the B200.
"Plovett" as far as I know yr correct, there are no PC's or even Beechs that have an interchangeable stretcher with the roads trucks here in Oz (but am happy to be corrected). They are however working on that it's a work in progress maybe for the next contract, who knows I don't think anybody ATM on that score.
Only recently the Bell 412 low skid models are now fully interchangeable with road trucks stretchers, roll on roll off. I/we envy them!
As I have said may times amongst these pages the PC sh1ts all over the old truck like Beech for ergonomics etc bar for one tiny detail.............NOT ENOUGH ENGINES !!!!!
...Well not for me anyway
I was following one of these PC thingies just the other day down the slippery slide (ILS) in the poo for real. As I let the old Beech auto itself down that slide whilst trying to stay awake as the comfort of TWO engines almost puts yr feet to sleep I thought what if that single fan on the PC up ahead of me failed whilst in IMC at say 5 miles (1500 ft AGL Approx) from the rwy with nothing but built up area under it's shadow?.......... I just smiled as the drone of the TWO engines keeping me safe
Look all a bit of a stir I guessbut we each have choices in life, I choose to stay safe, or is that safer?
Wmk2
Only recently the Bell 412 low skid models are now fully interchangeable with road trucks stretchers, roll on roll off. I/we envy them!
As I have said may times amongst these pages the PC sh1ts all over the old truck like Beech for ergonomics etc bar for one tiny detail.............NOT ENOUGH ENGINES !!!!!...Well not for me anywayI was following one of these PC thingies just the other day down the slippery slide (ILS) in the poo for real. As I let the old Beech auto itself down that slide whilst trying to stay awake as the comfort of TWO engines almost puts yr feet to sleep I thought what if that single fan on the PC up ahead of me failed whilst in IMC at say 5 miles (1500 ft AGL Approx) from the rwy with nothing but built up area under it's shadow?.......... I just smiled as the drone of the TWO engines keeping me safe
Look all a bit of a stir I guess
but we each have choices in life, I choose to stay safe, or is that safer?Wmk2
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My memory tells me that we did have that facility in the B200C, but the stretcher securing fittings in the aircraft often took some skin off your knuckles when you were locking it in.
Maybe they could not fix that, and changed it.
I don't see why they cannot have common stretchers. It's probably political.
Maybe they could not fix that, and changed it.
I don't see why they cannot have common stretchers. It's probably political.
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Bushy, I had the same problem with the stretcher in the C402 that I flew for a while. It had the castors so that it could be manoeuvred inside the aircraft.
The stretcher is from the same manufacturer as the ones in the ambulance but they didn't need the castors due to being able to load directly into the ambulance.
Wal, I wouldn't dare argue with you about two versus one. However in a recent interview for the Western Division of the RFDS I was surprised to find that pilots are expected to fly both types, at least that was the impression I gained. Whether the boys and girls in the remote bases do, I don't know, perhaps it is confined to Jandakot. Anyway, the girl in question did well and she has my respect.
The stretcher is from the same manufacturer as the ones in the ambulance but they didn't need the castors due to being able to load directly into the ambulance.
Wal, I wouldn't dare argue with you about two versus one.
However in a recent interview for the Western Division of the RFDS I was surprised to find that pilots are expected to fly both types, at least that was the impression I gained. Whether the boys and girls in the remote bases do, I don't know, perhaps it is confined to Jandakot. Anyway, the girl in question did well and she has my respect.
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There are some areas that use interchangable stretchers and I envy them! Re the WestOps, didn't they recently have another engine failure, in a B200? Seem to recall an ATSB report on it....... no glide approach required on that one though
I fly both the PC12 and the B200 regularly and don't have any huge issues with either.... but given the choice I will plump for the B200 simply because I personally prefer its handling qualities. Would be nice to have a crew door on it though.....
I fly both the PC12 and the B200 regularly and don't have any huge issues with either.... but given the choice I will plump for the B200 simply because I personally prefer its handling qualities. Would be nice to have a crew door on it though.....
PLovett, sorry to have to correct you but the stretchers in Central Division's PC12's are totally interchangeable with the ambulance stretchers in SA.
We simply take the patient straight off the aircraft and they are wheeled into the ambulance, on the same stretcher that they were on in the aircraft.
We then take the empty stretcher that was in the ambulance and stick it on the plane ready for the next job.
The system is excellent and the patient stays on the same stretcher from the hospital to the aircraft and to the receiving hospital.
No transferring whatsoever.
HOWEVER, when we take a patient interstate, a transfer from one stretcher to the other is necessary as all states have different stretcher systems in their ambulances. Yes, it is stupid, but there you go.
We simply take the patient straight off the aircraft and they are wheeled into the ambulance, on the same stretcher that they were on in the aircraft.
We then take the empty stretcher that was in the ambulance and stick it on the plane ready for the next job.
The system is excellent and the patient stays on the same stretcher from the hospital to the aircraft and to the receiving hospital.
No transferring whatsoever.
HOWEVER, when we take a patient interstate, a transfer from one stretcher to the other is necessary as all states have different stretcher systems in their ambulances. Yes, it is stupid, but there you go.
Australian gauge
Main article: Rail gauge in Australia
In the 19th century Australia's three mainland states adopted standard gauge, but due to political differences a break of gauge 30 years in the future was created. After instigating a change to 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) agreed to by all, New South Wales reverted to standard gauge while Victoria and South Australia stayed with broad gauge. Three different gauges are currently in wide use in Australia, and there is little prospect of full standardisation, though the main interstate routes are now standard gauge.
Main article: Rail gauge in Australia
In the 19th century Australia's three mainland states adopted standard gauge, but due to political differences a break of gauge 30 years in the future was created. After instigating a change to 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) agreed to by all, New South Wales reverted to standard gauge while Victoria and South Australia stayed with broad gauge. Three different gauges are currently in wide use in Australia, and there is little prospect of full standardisation, though the main interstate routes are now standard gauge.
CR.
(P.S. Not picking on the New South Welshies - in fact, GO THE BLUES!
)
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Starting to drift off thread a bit, but in answer (and not detracting from the excellent performance of the RFDS PC12 pilot at the heart of this thread);
Australia has several different Ambulance service providers.
Qld has the Qld Ambulance Service (QAS) which was the first civil ambulance service anywhere, and is now a state government organisation (under Dept of Community Safety) partly funded by public levy through power bills. The QAS has recently decided on a standard fitout of Stryker stretchers for all units (200+ trucks across the state) which will be complete within 5 years.
NSW Ambulance is part of the NSW Dept of Health. They use DHS stretchers which - as part of the RFDS / Ambulance contract are interchangable with RFDS. (at least they were last time I looked). RFDS SE is moving to a new loading system which uses different stretchers.
ACT Ambulance is another state govt unit, don't know what stretchers they use, but suspect Stryker are in the mix there someplace.
Vic Ambulance is two departments - Metro Ambulance Vic (MAV) and Rural Ambulance Vic (RAV). I understand the MAV have some interchangability with the current RFDS service provider at Essendon..... maybe Wally could comment on that?
Tas Ambulance is also a govt department; I can't comment on their stretcher systems.
SA Ambulance is a relatively recent govt department; they had been using Ferno F2650 but I believe they are heading to Stryker as well.
WA ambulance is a St John Ambulance organisation, govt funded in the most part, with relatively few full-time paid staff (for the size of the state). Dont know what gear they are using now; used to be Ferno....
NT is also St John Ambulance, while the aeromed is NTAMS (Northern Territory Aeromedical Service) run by Pearl. They use Fernos in at least some of their trucks. Also there is service to the lower half of NT from the Alice Springs RFDS, and the Chartair Tennant Ck C402. The 402 has a Ferno dropwhell (F26 I think from memory) which can interchange with the local ambos; the RFDS PC12 has a loading hoist system with an Ambulance stretcher which also interchanges with some
Each of these ambulance services are completely independant of the other states; although there is a national consultative committee, each have different clinical and equipment standards; each have different staff qualifications. To unify them, they would all need to firstly agree on clinical standards, a argument that has been ongoing for at least 20 years. Some states (QAS, VIC, SA) have very high standards for clinical staff - Degree level as a starting point, 7-plus years of training and experience before they get to Intensive Care level. In some states, IC Officers manage all aeromedical transfers (FW & RW) while in others these are the province of medical officers.
If I were King for a day, I would federalise all ambulance (and health) services, standardise all equipment, clinical standards (at the highest level)and vehicles, have one national aeromedical provider.......gotta dream!
Reality is that we will be stuck with what we have for the foreseeable future, because there are no votes in changing it.
Australia has several different Ambulance service providers.
Qld has the Qld Ambulance Service (QAS) which was the first civil ambulance service anywhere, and is now a state government organisation (under Dept of Community Safety) partly funded by public levy through power bills. The QAS has recently decided on a standard fitout of Stryker stretchers for all units (200+ trucks across the state) which will be complete within 5 years.
NSW Ambulance is part of the NSW Dept of Health. They use DHS stretchers which - as part of the RFDS / Ambulance contract are interchangable with RFDS. (at least they were last time I looked). RFDS SE is moving to a new loading system which uses different stretchers.
ACT Ambulance is another state govt unit, don't know what stretchers they use, but suspect Stryker are in the mix there someplace.
Vic Ambulance is two departments - Metro Ambulance Vic (MAV) and Rural Ambulance Vic (RAV). I understand the MAV have some interchangability with the current RFDS service provider at Essendon..... maybe Wally could comment on that?
Tas Ambulance is also a govt department; I can't comment on their stretcher systems.
SA Ambulance is a relatively recent govt department; they had been using Ferno F2650 but I believe they are heading to Stryker as well.
WA ambulance is a St John Ambulance organisation, govt funded in the most part, with relatively few full-time paid staff (for the size of the state). Dont know what gear they are using now; used to be Ferno....
NT is also St John Ambulance, while the aeromed is NTAMS (Northern Territory Aeromedical Service) run by Pearl. They use Fernos in at least some of their trucks. Also there is service to the lower half of NT from the Alice Springs RFDS, and the Chartair Tennant Ck C402. The 402 has a Ferno dropwhell (F26 I think from memory) which can interchange with the local ambos; the RFDS PC12 has a loading hoist system with an Ambulance stretcher which also interchanges with some
Each of these ambulance services are completely independant of the other states; although there is a national consultative committee, each have different clinical and equipment standards; each have different staff qualifications. To unify them, they would all need to firstly agree on clinical standards, a argument that has been ongoing for at least 20 years. Some states (QAS, VIC, SA) have very high standards for clinical staff - Degree level as a starting point, 7-plus years of training and experience before they get to Intensive Care level. In some states, IC Officers manage all aeromedical transfers (FW & RW) while in others these are the province of medical officers.
If I were King for a day, I would federalise all ambulance (and health) services, standardise all equipment, clinical standards (at the highest level)and vehicles, have one national aeromedical provider.......gotta dream!
Reality is that we will be stuck with what we have for the foreseeable future, because there are no votes in changing it.
Last edited by Jamair; 8th Feb 2010 at 10:16. Reason: Forgot Plovett et al.....
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Jamair.......stop thinking with common sense lad!
Its only in recent years they have shared the traffic fine/points sytem properly, and that makes money for them, what hope have we with systems that cost money, that we pay for anyway!
Its only in recent years they have shared the traffic fine/points sytem properly, and that makes money for them, what hope have we with systems that cost money, that we pay for anyway!
