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A classic quote from a Ppruner

Old 28th Nov 2009, 12:09
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A classic quote from a Ppruner

Saw this from an exasperated American Ppruner asking about renewing an instructor grading. Especially loved the bit about the proliferation of people wearing hi viz vests. They breed like flies.


I quit flying as a career mainly because I could no longer tolerate the mindless cretins that have taken over a large part of aviation and churn out never ending rules and regulations that are reflective of their myopic view of the world around them, the hi vis vest is a typical example of their mindset and their vision of the world around them.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 12:36
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One thing is for sure.... it will never be the same again!

Those of us that were around in the good times will know when they were!

(certainly not in the last 2 decades)

Change is not always a bad thing and ofter there is good reason for it, and maybe we are learning from experience in putting in all these new rules as a trade-off for not teaching common sense any more
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:07
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Safety is a good thing, and it's hard to say that you can have too much safety...however.

Flying still needs a healthy dollop of common sense both from a flight and ground operational point of view.

In my opinion, there are those who seem to think that procedures can and should replace common sense.

Rather, procedures should re-inforce common sense, after all, that's where we hope the procedures came from in the first place.

Unfortunately, there are too many cases where the "safety culture" is so heavily overdone, that people start believing that they can do anything that is not expressly forbidden by the procedures.
This is based on the premise that "If it wasn't safe, they wouldn't let us do it"

At this point common sense devolves to procedure following and we are no longer pilots or whatever but procedure followers.

In turn, this spawns a bureaucracy that tries to implement a procedure for everything since it's obvious that common sense can't be trusted.

I believe that's where we are right now.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 19:03
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It's not just aviation. It has infiltrated just about every job where automation and team consultation has taken large chunks of what used to require individual skill and experience. There are people who fit right into this environment and others who have a difficult time with it. It has appeared to make flying safer and improved the acceptance of aviation by paying passengers, but it has made for a very sterile workplace in many cases. If someone paid me a jet jockey's salary to fly VFR SE (especially tailwheel), you wouldn't get me out of there with a crowbar.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 21:45
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high viz

What about real safety and not pretend DOTARS safety.

Did anybody see the show on the abc about the sydney airport security scam? Basically corruption at the highest level. So don't think for a minute that you can change things. Its a dictatorship disguised as a democracy.

As long as it looks safe.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 21:48
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I have resisted wearing a hi-viz vest for about ten years, sadly it has now been mandated by my employer...
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 22:40
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OH&S
Proudly interferring with Natural Post Natal Genetic Selection


Credit to: Adapted from the wise words of Chimbu Chuckles
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 22:47
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One thing is for sure.... it will never be the same again!
Ron Gladdon and then Mrs Giltrap operated the licensing branch in the 60's and 70's. Same job today would have a staff of "thousands" despite emerging technology.

There are about the same number of pilots flying now as then. What did we do to deserve that?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 23:19
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Work to rule practices these days, centralised location, a new super computer system that does not recognise licences, ratings and approvals of the past.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:10
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Imagine if some OH&S weenie had been on the spot and in a position of authority when the Norfolk Islanders were coming to the (let's face it, incredibly risky) decision on whether to launch the boat to investigate those three bobbing lights they could see off the coast a week or two ago?
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:19
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I am yet to have a close call by not wearing a bright vest, but need a crash helmet to duck the bulls%$t when attending the airport administration office.

My airside drivers licence prohibits me from driving on an apron or taxiway, until I am in the smallest airplane, where I can drive anywhere I please.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:22
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An interesting thread. A relative of the Mrs Drivr with a lengthy and fairly distinguished career behind him in the media made similiar observations to Zeebee and Lodown as regarding the levels of intellectual competence he'd seen come into his industry over twenty odd years.
His overall conclusion (I must admit to it being a VERY long conversation fuelled by a mass consumption of various reds, white etc and therefore my recollections are somewhat fuzzy!) was that due to changes in the 70s in the education system, mediocre performance was rewarded and indeed encouraged amongst that generation. It would interesting to see as to whether someone with far better Googling skills than me could come up with info confirming that view.

Last edited by GADRIVR; 29th Nov 2009 at 00:26. Reason: typos!!
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:24
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That's a good one jaba...

I can't wait to see the day when the student walks out to the aircraft wearing a hard hat with a rotating orange light attached to it, high vis vest, safety glasses, steel caps, flame retardent flight suit, gloves and calls ground for pedestrian clearance
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:31
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If the airport nazis grill you for not wearing a vest, just use the classic response, "how did you see me when I did not have a vest on?"

I hate the damn things especially in the tropics! You're already sweating like a pedophile at a wiggles concert in your uniform without the added layer of a nylon vest!
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 00:36
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Considering the fact that the vests generally issued are XXXXXXXXXL and are not tucked in, I could see problems with the vest itself becoming dangerous around moving parts, actually, so is long hair, we should push for hair nets as well, laceless shoes, Lycra uniforms and little licenses confirming that we know how to avoid moving aircraft whilst walking, I mean after all, most fatalities and crashes occur on the ground rather than in the air aye!
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 01:55
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I've always thought that if everyone on the apron wore a high vis vest, then I'd stand out by not wearing one, wouldn't I?
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 02:35
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I left the mining industry because of the overkill of safety. It quickly went from Hi-Viz vests to fluro long sleeve shirts and pants . You end up looking like a complete idiot
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 03:21
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Mining Safety

I left the mining industry because of the overkill of safety. It quickly went from Hi-Viz vests to fluro long sleeve shirts and pants
..mind you, you'd look pretty silly squashed against the rib by an Eimco too.

Guys I know working at an open-cut pit in the Hunter have to do a "take two" checklist every time they get on, and every time they get off, the ^&*( trucks. "I would rather we produce no coal at all if it means everyone goes home safely at the end of the day" crowed the safety manager

I have been lucky enough (?) to recently help an RPT operator get their CASA-mandated Safety Management Manual together for submission. Man you should read the CASA guidance material ... oh boy.

I blame the 1990s Education system, I did OK in the 1970s and 1980s!

Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 29th Nov 2009 at 09:29.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 03:40
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If walking around the apron is that dangerous, how come they let us get in an aircraft and takeoff?

Doesn't make sense!
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 06:03
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Agree with ZEEBEE.

What ever happened to taking personal responsibility for the outcome instead of having a culture where someone else is always to blame? The yanks started it by sueing if things dont go your way. The rest of us are following suit.

Dont get me started on hi-vis clothing. If you get run over, just perhaps you were in the F#CKING way!

Back to natural selection I say, where individuals are encouraged to anticipate outcomes before taking action.
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