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Merged: Pel-Air Westwind Ditching off NLK

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Merged: Pel-Air Westwind Ditching off NLK

Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:28
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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RPG, you would have to be ****head to make a statement like this
You've done your fellow aviators proud,
Well Done.
Endangering the life of passengers due to not carrying enough fuel, I would never want to be associated with anyone who thinks this idiot has done anyone proud.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:31
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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You're right Spikey, but we should wait for all the facts first, I am assuming the only " facts " we currently have are from the papers ?

I am not so sure CASA ( and Pelair ) will see him as a hero
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:32
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Devil Pilot a hero???? I dont think so!

The Westwind with full fuel should be able to make it to Norfolk from Apia with enough fuel to get to Noumea in normal enroute wind conditions, with 1 approach.

the fact that the TAF was showing such bad weather there and that the METARS for the entire day were crap, would have had me planning via Noumea to melbourne instead of norfolk.

Noumea has an ILS, and good alternates around were norfolk doesnt have either!

I wonder whether pelair has given the pilots any planning software yet or whether you still have to provide your own (most of us had plans made on excel for standard routes and amended them if you were going somewhere different which really eats up your 2 hrs callout time) something like web based jetplan that the crew had access to (if they still dont) would have given the crew more time to look over weather and also allow them to run plans via NWWW to check alternate routings, for info its only 80nm further to go to melbourne via noumea which is the way I would be going!

I hope they do have planning software by now but if they dont I hope that they realise the potential saving of a few hundred bucks a year.

Good work for carrying out a successful ditching, but your a bloody idiot getting yourself in that position, especially if you were getting metars on the way and elected to continue there instead of diverting to NWWW, and if you weren't getting metars then you should hand in your wings.

Hero Pilot? I dont think so, lucky Pilot is a better call, you put the plane in the situation where you had no options! you are lucky to have got out with your lives.

Last edited by Captain Kellogs; 19th Nov 2009 at 08:15. Reason: Typo sorry
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:32
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Cougar
I would think it prudent to sit on this one until the facts come out.
then gives a potential scenario

Crew press beyond PNR as fuel is all good at this point.

Wx closes in when aircraft past PNR.
Sorry correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst case scenario for Norfolk (being a remote island) would be depressurized. So the fuel calculations would be based on a point of safe diversion based on being depressurized. The PSD should therefore be beyond the island, if not try LR cruise, recalculate fuel, if not (a possible fuel leak) piss off to the nearest non-remote island/mainland (your alternate ... in this case Noumea).
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:35
  #65 (permalink)  

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'Pilot hailed a hero after ditching plane at sea'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...SS&attr=797093

Sophie Tedmanson in Sydney

A pilot has been hailed as a hero for safely ditching his plane into the sea off Australia and saving the lives of all on board.

The medical plane, which was transporting a patient and five others from Samoa to Melbourne, began to run out of fuel as it approached Norfolk Island,
a small island in the Pacific off the east coast of Australia, on Wednesday night.

Captain Dominic James, a former nominee for ‘bachelor of the year’ in an Australian magazine, was praised for his “amazing” skill
at bringing the plane down in the dark and saving the lives of his passengers.

In an accident which bore similarities to the Hudson River plane crash in New York in January, Captain James decided to make a controlled landing onto the sea off the island, and landed the Westwind jet safely on the water.

The plane sank within minutes, but the patient, her husband, two medical crew and the two pilots evacuated safely. The six people clung to each other, treading water under the moonlight for 90 minutes because only three had time to grab life jackets.

They were eventually rescued by boat and taken to the island where they were treated for shock, but remarkably none were injured.

Pel-Air Aviation chairman John Sharp said he was very proud of Captain James and the first officer.

“Their professionalism stood out on the day and made a substantial difference to the outcome,” he said.

“They executed what would have to be described as a perfect landing on water. The pilots ensured that the aircraft landed close to the coast, close to rescue.

“They landed at night, approximately we think about 9.30pm (10.30am GMT) local time, and as a result of the skill of the pilots the aircraft landed in the water and none of the passengers were injured.”

Norfolk Island airport manager Glenn Robinson said the passengers were shaken up by their ordeal.

“They were extremely lucky and believe me, they all know it,” he told and Australian radio station.

“Full credit to the pilot. It was just an amazing effort by him.”

In January US Airways pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger was hailed a hero for safely ditching an Airbus 320 into the Hudson River in New York, saving all 155 passengers and crew on board.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:50
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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more info here in the australian section of Prune:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...g-off-nlk.html
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:53
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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no fuel?? no alternate airport?? or sudeen unforcast weather deterioration??
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:59
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Captain Dominic James, a former nominee for ‘bachelor of the year’ in an Australian magazine, was praised for his “amazing” skill
A hugely impressive feat, I really hope I never end up in a similar situation.

However, and not meaning to detract from their "amazing skill"; surely they should not have been in that situation in the first place? Obviously we do not have all the facts here, but how was it that they did not have enough fuel for destination, or a suitable alternate?

I remember some wise words imparted during my initial training that went something along the lines of; "a superior pilot uses his superior intellect to ensure that he never has to rely on his superior skill"...
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 06:59
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Pel Air had some trouble in Noumea apparently - failed ramp checks due fuel policy, crew quals etc. Don't seem to plan there at all now??
Left Apia without TAF, and not much gas anyway.
Where's the regulator? Hello CASA??? If this was USA, any operator who ditched for 'fuel exhaustion' would be grounded.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:16
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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"ditching plane at sea"......... where else ?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:25
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Just one more question......... Why was the life raft in the boot??????????

no wonder no one got into it!
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:25
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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River. Hudson comes to mind.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:39
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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At Norfolk Island ?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:44
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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"ditching plane at sea"......... where else ?
Or lake, fjord, reservoir, swamp, pond, lagoon, estuary...
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:54
  #75 (permalink)  
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I seem to remember a Britannia(?) doing a forced landing in the UK on it's way back from Spain due to running out of fuel, the press called him a hero etc, but he still got blamed for not dipping the tanks as his fuel gauges were us and the refuellers had cocked it up.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 07:58
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Alidair Viscount at Ottery St. Mary (Exeter)

Air Accidents Investigation: 9/1981 G-ARBY
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 08:05
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger 35.
I am not encouraging anyone to break regs under any normal circumstances. This was not normal circumstances.
I am familiar with nav tolerances etc.
I am not familiar with Norfolks approaches or terrain specifically/ personally but I know there is high terrain to N of airport.
In a final, last chance situation, I only suggest that a controlled appch /landing onto a lit runway or a runway strip area on the flat ground of an airport may be a safer option with a better chance of survival than a so called "controlled" impact with the moving surface of the ocean in presumably rough conditions and pitch black due to the overcast.
Obviously one has to avoid running into terrain on the final descent from MDA to the field. The final 3* descent from the VDP should keep you clear of the terrain IF you are within tolerances on the approach as this final 4-500 feet would normally be flown visually with the runway in sight if you were in the clear at MDA.
Not here to get into a debate.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 08:06
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Hipster

If this was USA, any operator who ditched for 'fuel exhaustion' would be grounded.
I think that may be why a senior westwind pilot was told to get out of Guam and never come back recently.

See some of my past posts over the last few months.

I have seen CASA shut companies down for far less than this but somehow PA seem to be able to crash 3 (I think )westwinds and still be operating.

WTF?
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 08:15
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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A touch of topic but a reply to Anthill's who made mention of a previous NLK incident....

Anthill,

with regards to the Ozjet NLK incident you mention, the OJ 737 diverted from NLK and landed at the planned alternate (NOU) with statutory reserves, even with the problems the aircraft carried.

OJ always planned, and always dispatched, to NLK with fuel to go elsewhere no matter how good the TAF was, be it AKL, NOU, BNE, OOL, SYD etc, etc.
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Old 19th Nov 2009, 08:30
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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The Australian internet news has a sound link with one of the 'rescuers' from Norfolk.
Verrry interesting indeed.
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