Further Services Being Lost at GA Airports
Thread Starter
Further Services Being Lost at GA Airports
The Shell Company of Australia Limited has recently written me a letter stating,
The ten airports they listed are as follows:
Those who have seen the graph on my website re. private and business aviation flying hours (see here) will readily see the problem.
Of course, fewer services mean fewer people are inclined to buy aircraft, and that will once again mean fewer services.
I think it’s going to be a spiral of less and less GA as airports are closed, refuelling facilities are closed, and we have a government which doesn’t appear to have any policy in relation to general aviation and increasing participation levels.
“I write to advise that Shell has withdrawn, or is in the process of withdrawing its aviation refuelling facilities at ten regional airports across Australia.…Over the past few years demand for aviation fuel at several airports around Australia has declined. At the same time, the cost of maintaining aviation facilities to increasingly strict standards has risen. As a result, Shell is closing its operations at ten airports”.
Lethbridge, Coffs Harbour, Horn Island, Yarrawonga, Deniliquin, Parafield, Karumba, Bamaga, Mount Gambier, Point Cook
Of course, fewer services mean fewer people are inclined to buy aircraft, and that will once again mean fewer services.
I think it’s going to be a spiral of less and less GA as airports are closed, refuelling facilities are closed, and we have a government which doesn’t appear to have any policy in relation to general aviation and increasing participation levels.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Dick, I'm particulary concerned about several of those, I assume it is a foregone conclusion or are thinking there is hope to save them? Then again commercial reality says if they are uneconomical there would be little that anyone can do. Lethbridge is disappointing as they had a minimum usage that exceeded the minimum required for the service to be installed.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fuel companies do not want AVGAS. It's a pain in the neck to them and they would rather only supply JET A1.
AVGAS is the most expensive fuel to produce. It is the last product out of the cracking process. It requires the best crude oil to produce. It is a very limited market.
The fuel companies have been gradually getting rid of their AVGAS networks and leaving the field to private suppliers. No longer can you fly around Australia on a fuel company carnet and it will only get worse.
Perhaps the only answer is diesel engines?
AVGAS is the most expensive fuel to produce. It is the last product out of the cracking process. It requires the best crude oil to produce. It is a very limited market.
The fuel companies have been gradually getting rid of their AVGAS networks and leaving the field to private suppliers. No longer can you fly around Australia on a fuel company carnet and it will only get worse.
Perhaps the only answer is diesel engines?
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Or jets!
A number of NSW locations have lost their JET-A1 facilities in the last 12 months too. In a few places independent operations have started, hopefully someone will see this as an opportunity.
A number of NSW locations have lost their JET-A1 facilities in the last 12 months too. In a few places independent operations have started, hopefully someone will see this as an opportunity.
Is there not some obligation for these companies to provide essential infrastructure?
Just like regional air routes are often government subsidized, there should be a similar scheme for our regional essential services.
If there is not, then CASA better start handing out dispos for carrying 20L drums of fuel in our baggage compartments!
Dick, you have the coin! Why don't you take over these depos and call it Dickgas? I'm sure with a bit of lobbying you will be able to get it subsidized too!
Just like regional air routes are often government subsidized, there should be a similar scheme for our regional essential services.
If there is not, then CASA better start handing out dispos for carrying 20L drums of fuel in our baggage compartments!
Dick, you have the coin! Why don't you take over these depos and call it Dickgas? I'm sure with a bit of lobbying you will be able to get it subsidized too!
Use it or lose it is a problem for many small country locations that do not generate the traffic for viable commercial operations. The impact on commercial operators will either have them into turbines if they can afford it, or flying extra track miles via fuelling stops. Either of which has to be passed on to the customer. Once it gets too hard or too costly, the customer will elect to drive. That plays right into the hands of the fuel companies.
If government sees air services to the bush as an essential social service maybe they should lean on the fuel companies a bit via various means. Like no more servo licences if you reduce avgas or jet A1 availability below a certain level?
The answer for the private owner is to fly something that will run on mogas. My bugsmasher runs on anything better than 95 octane, or avgas or a mix of both. So an empty jerry can in the back is cheap insurance against getting stuck for fuel. A cab into town to top up as necessary. Inconvenient, but still beats driving long distances.
If government sees air services to the bush as an essential social service maybe they should lean on the fuel companies a bit via various means. Like no more servo licences if you reduce avgas or jet A1 availability below a certain level?
The answer for the private owner is to fly something that will run on mogas. My bugsmasher runs on anything better than 95 octane, or avgas or a mix of both. So an empty jerry can in the back is cheap insurance against getting stuck for fuel. A cab into town to top up as necessary. Inconvenient, but still beats driving long distances.
QLink now have a policy of not refuelling the Dash 8 / 400 away from base where possible.
This has knocked a few Qld refuellers about severely.
Not good for the future.
This has knocked a few Qld refuellers about severely.
Not good for the future.
It's not then end of the world for Coffs Harbour. They will still have BP and Mobil available, as will Parafield and Horn Island, so these three out of the ten listed above are obviously a complete non-issue for AVGAS availability.
I wonder how the number of movements at these three compare with the others?
I wonder how the number of movements at these three compare with the others?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indonesian experience
At my local airport at Halim in Jakarta AVGAS has to be purchased in drums at approx US$2.50 per litre , it takes about 3 weeks to order.
The end result is most piston twins and high performance singles have been parked and are being sold off.
Flying schools are running C172s on MOGAS and charter operators are mostly turbine now.
I figure in a few years they'll totally stop supply of AVGAS.
A niche in the market exists for a cheap turbine using low cost technologies to repower all the older piston singles and twins when AVGAS gets harder to get in the big markets (USA, Oz etc). Walther make a great engine (M601) but now they're owned by GE I wonder how long that will last.
The end result is most piston twins and high performance singles have been parked and are being sold off.
Flying schools are running C172s on MOGAS and charter operators are mostly turbine now.
I figure in a few years they'll totally stop supply of AVGAS.
A niche in the market exists for a cheap turbine using low cost technologies to repower all the older piston singles and twins when AVGAS gets harder to get in the big markets (USA, Oz etc). Walther make a great engine (M601) but now they're owned by GE I wonder how long that will last.
Thread Starter
The Green Goblin
There’s absolutely no way I would ever become involved in a business that provided aviation fuel – or indeed any business involved in general aviation. The reason for this is that all recent governments in Australia basically have no policy for general aviation – in fact they are even hostile to it.
Over many years I have campaigned to reduce all the unnecessary expenses we have, ie. things like joining directly on base at an airport to save fuel costs or, dare I say it, being able to fly at 12,500 feet without oxygen – being above the inversion layer and also saving fuel.
So far, all of these things – and these are just a tiny example of literally hundreds of cost reductions which could be introduced – nothing has been implemented.
My suggestion to anyone is not to put any money into aviation in this country. Maybe in the years to come when the damage that has been inflicted is so great, we will get a Minister or a Government who will take advice and will get aviation booming again.
Remember, we can be the leaders in the world in flight training and recreational aviation. Hundreds of millions of dollars can come, but for that you need a policy that says that you should have both high safety and participation levels in aviation. Until that happens, we are doomed.
There’s absolutely no way I would ever become involved in a business that provided aviation fuel – or indeed any business involved in general aviation. The reason for this is that all recent governments in Australia basically have no policy for general aviation – in fact they are even hostile to it.
Over many years I have campaigned to reduce all the unnecessary expenses we have, ie. things like joining directly on base at an airport to save fuel costs or, dare I say it, being able to fly at 12,500 feet without oxygen – being above the inversion layer and also saving fuel.
So far, all of these things – and these are just a tiny example of literally hundreds of cost reductions which could be introduced – nothing has been implemented.
My suggestion to anyone is not to put any money into aviation in this country. Maybe in the years to come when the damage that has been inflicted is so great, we will get a Minister or a Government who will take advice and will get aviation booming again.
Remember, we can be the leaders in the world in flight training and recreational aviation. Hundreds of millions of dollars can come, but for that you need a policy that says that you should have both high safety and participation levels in aviation. Until that happens, we are doomed.
This is a continuing problem throughout regional Australia, but quite disturbing to see that somewhere like Parafield no longer justifies Shell's presence.
With regard to the suggestion that this creates an opportunity for someone, the real problem is that of supply by the oil companies. As I understand it, most of these airports were already independent businesses who obtained their supply from Shell.
At my local field, the independent business also receives his fuel from Shell, but they have recently placed his business on a 7 day account basis (previously was monthly as I understand it). The dilemma faced by this operator is does he bill his customers every 7 days? (many are private owners, low volume), does he go to the expense of installing credit card facilities at the self-serve bowser? (thus splitting his already slim margin with the banks), or does he simply go out of business, which will do no-one any good (100 GA aircraft at this field)?
Under Shell's previous policy, where he paid them monthly in arrears, the price Shell provided fuel at obviously included an increment to cover the cost of carrying this credit. With the implementation of the 7 day payment policy, there has been no reduction in the cost.
I accept that avgas is extremely low volume for oil companies, and therefore hard to justify on pure economic grounds, but much of regional Australia is heavily reliant on GA, and this is yet another nail in the coffin.
With regard to the suggestion that this creates an opportunity for someone, the real problem is that of supply by the oil companies. As I understand it, most of these airports were already independent businesses who obtained their supply from Shell.
At my local field, the independent business also receives his fuel from Shell, but they have recently placed his business on a 7 day account basis (previously was monthly as I understand it). The dilemma faced by this operator is does he bill his customers every 7 days? (many are private owners, low volume), does he go to the expense of installing credit card facilities at the self-serve bowser? (thus splitting his already slim margin with the banks), or does he simply go out of business, which will do no-one any good (100 GA aircraft at this field)?
Under Shell's previous policy, where he paid them monthly in arrears, the price Shell provided fuel at obviously included an increment to cover the cost of carrying this credit. With the implementation of the 7 day payment policy, there has been no reduction in the cost.
I accept that avgas is extremely low volume for oil companies, and therefore hard to justify on pure economic grounds, but much of regional Australia is heavily reliant on GA, and this is yet another nail in the coffin.
Dick, no politician would or could understand GA in Australia.
Unless it involves a big shiny jet, business class seats with a nice little thing serving drinks and a club lounge that serves free nibbles and drinks before the flight and also offers frequent flyer points, your average Canberra politician wouldn't give a toss.
Look at the stae of the major GA airports YSBK and YMMB, how long will they remain operational as airports? Local council look at regional airports as a nice little way to raise revenue and create headaches for aviation firms whether they be flying schools, charter or RPT operators or the local maintenance firm. A local flying school has been told of a number of things that have to be completed before they can get a new lease signed at a greatly inflated rate and that includes a nearly $20,000 worth of paperwork including such things building compliance statements, local council regulations for buildings(amazing a building can exist for 30 years but is not deemed to be acceptable unless it has ramps for disabled, safety glass etc). Also a lot councils are a bit hesitant about storage of large amounts of Avgas etc and the list goes on.
Don't get be started about local councils and there over zealous management of airports and the people that use them. I got a phone call from the boss who had received an e-mail from an airport owner, stating that on a recent charter pickup I had breached a number of the local airport by-regulations including not wearing an approved safety vest while on the tarmac, escorting people airside without them wearing approved safety vests and the last but the best did we know if the people were security screened for a possible terrorist risk!!!!
So Dick why would you want to participate in this circus?
Just remember Dick, Ashton Brothers Circus had less clowns but at least they gave me a laugh.
Unless it involves a big shiny jet, business class seats with a nice little thing serving drinks and a club lounge that serves free nibbles and drinks before the flight and also offers frequent flyer points, your average Canberra politician wouldn't give a toss.
Look at the stae of the major GA airports YSBK and YMMB, how long will they remain operational as airports? Local council look at regional airports as a nice little way to raise revenue and create headaches for aviation firms whether they be flying schools, charter or RPT operators or the local maintenance firm. A local flying school has been told of a number of things that have to be completed before they can get a new lease signed at a greatly inflated rate and that includes a nearly $20,000 worth of paperwork including such things building compliance statements, local council regulations for buildings(amazing a building can exist for 30 years but is not deemed to be acceptable unless it has ramps for disabled, safety glass etc). Also a lot councils are a bit hesitant about storage of large amounts of Avgas etc and the list goes on.
Don't get be started about local councils and there over zealous management of airports and the people that use them. I got a phone call from the boss who had received an e-mail from an airport owner, stating that on a recent charter pickup I had breached a number of the local airport by-regulations including not wearing an approved safety vest while on the tarmac, escorting people airside without them wearing approved safety vests and the last but the best did we know if the people were security screened for a possible terrorist risk!!!!
So Dick why would you want to participate in this circus?
Just remember Dick, Ashton Brothers Circus had less clowns but at least they gave me a laugh.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big oil control ALL of the fuel distribution throughout Australia. They took control of the vast majority of privately operated fuel distributors/wholesalers and retailers during the last 15/20 yrs, so they could control the market. Big oil is only interested in one equation: the bottom line. If there is no "money" in a certain outlet then it will be closed, fullstop. Sadly "no Money" to them may have been a reasonable living for the private operator. I must ad that to install and mainntain any fuel outlet is an extremely costly exercise.
Jobbers or private operators do not fit in with Big oils plans and therefore BO do what ever is necessary to force them out of business. Its about market share and control. Its no good suggesting to Dick that he take over the outlets as 1) there is certainly no money in it,2) Big Oil don't want DS and his entrepeneurial talents getting in their way. 3) DS has too much common sense (read Brains) to even contemplate going there.
Jobbers or private operators do not fit in with Big oils plans and therefore BO do what ever is necessary to force them out of business. Its about market share and control. Its no good suggesting to Dick that he take over the outlets as 1) there is certainly no money in it,2) Big Oil don't want DS and his entrepeneurial talents getting in their way. 3) DS has too much common sense (read Brains) to even contemplate going there.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Chimbu Warrior........ and it gets worse mate!
Our local friendly fuel man, who sells us about 1000L a month will soon be out of the loop altogether when Shell pull the pin on his business altogether!
March 2010 is the date apparently. Not sure what the final scoop will be but the fuel will remain, but how is another question.
Of course the next problem is when you want a drum of oil or carton....Good old Jim has it in stock. What about next year?
I can see us buying a rather large order of it at the end of Feb, to last a year or two, because his prices will be better than after the event I am sure!
Desert Flower can probably tell us about the BP folk too
And it just gets worse from here......................................
Our local friendly fuel man, who sells us about 1000L a month will soon be out of the loop altogether when Shell pull the pin on his business altogether!
March 2010 is the date apparently. Not sure what the final scoop will be but the fuel will remain, but how is another question.
Of course the next problem is when you want a drum of oil or carton....Good old Jim has it in stock. What about next year?
I can see us buying a rather large order of it at the end of Feb, to last a year or two, because his prices will be better than after the event I am sure!
Desert Flower can probably tell us about the BP folk too
And it just gets worse from here......................................
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotax approved to Run 98RON Unleaded, same as jabiru. why cant Lycoming and continental do the same? its the obvious way of the future for GA fuel supplies.
funny thing is Rotax and Jabiru only approve BP 98RON unleaded as BP are the only fuel company that guarantee in writing the 98RON is a Minimum of 98.
funny thing is Rotax and Jabiru only approve BP 98RON unleaded as BP are the only fuel company that guarantee in writing the 98RON is a Minimum of 98.
Mobil-Exxon are pulling out of Australia as the market is too small.
Air BP are also looking at reviewing a number of sites as well.
Looks it solves the problem of global warming.
Air BP are also looking at reviewing a number of sites as well.
Looks it solves the problem of global warming.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Amongst the weeds and the dust
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mistral engines, according to their site, can accept AVGAS or MOGAS but MOGAS is more susceptible to vapour-lock at altitude.
Anyone with a larger brain than mine agree with that? Is is the properties of the fuel itself or just their fuel system?
Anyone with a larger brain than mine agree with that? Is is the properties of the fuel itself or just their fuel system?
Desert Flower can probably tell us about the BP folk too
DF.