Is it just me or...?
Thread Starter
Interesting thread drift. I think the bad behaviour of PPLs described above comes down to the bad manners of individuals, not their being PPLs.
There was a note that the PPLs "watch you like hawks" - well, why not? Any pilot would inevitably be looking at the flying of another. I would hope that any Commercial Pilot has the confidence and self-belief to welcome and appreciate that close scrutiny.
(For the record, I did not sit in the front seat on this occasion.)
As a bottom feeder PPL, I was trained to fly EVERY flight as if it was a flight test - to the very best of ones ability and training. It should surely never be anything less? And it makes the real renewal tests that much easier. Not that I did not have to repeat some tests or parts thereof; my training file would show me as an average or below student.
There was a note that the PPLs "watch you like hawks" - well, why not? Any pilot would inevitably be looking at the flying of another. I would hope that any Commercial Pilot has the confidence and self-belief to welcome and appreciate that close scrutiny.
(For the record, I did not sit in the front seat on this occasion.)
As a bottom feeder PPL, I was trained to fly EVERY flight as if it was a flight test - to the very best of ones ability and training. It should surely never be anything less? And it makes the real renewal tests that much easier. Not that I did not have to repeat some tests or parts thereof; my training file would show me as an average or below student.
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Not that I did not have to repeat some tests or parts thereof; my training file would show me as an average or below student.
If I want to be impressed by how fantastically well a pilot can throw an aircraft around, I'll buy a DVD of the Roulettes/Red Arrows or other display team.
I was trained to fly EVERY flight as if it was a flight test
Just keep doing what you do James.
I would hope that any Commercial Pilot has the confidence and self-belief to welcome and appreciate that close scrutiny.
j3
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that my flying was great but he was disappointed I didn't lean the mixture...I was flying a Caravan...
I would have told him to go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200!
Priceless
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I went through a stage of ppl guys sitting next to me some really nice and respectful and some so far up there arse it was ridiculous.
One guy told me " hey buddy you got two pilots on this plane" (loud yank) I asked for whom he flew for and he explained he had a ppl, I went on to explain that you are a pilot when its your job and a hobbyist until that point.
I also love the guy who tries to give a commentary to his friends in the back of every thing that you do during the flight. We had a complaint to from a ppl pax to the chief pilot that the pilot who had flown him did not use carb heat once. The chief pilot explained that the c206 does not have one. ( tail between legs )
Having said all that flew some really nice ppl guys who were keen to learn something by watching and respectful and will always be made more than welcome again with that attitude.
Sorry drifting !
One guy told me " hey buddy you got two pilots on this plane" (loud yank) I asked for whom he flew for and he explained he had a ppl, I went on to explain that you are a pilot when its your job and a hobbyist until that point.
I also love the guy who tries to give a commentary to his friends in the back of every thing that you do during the flight. We had a complaint to from a ppl pax to the chief pilot that the pilot who had flown him did not use carb heat once. The chief pilot explained that the c206 does not have one. ( tail between legs )
Having said all that flew some really nice ppl guys who were keen to learn something by watching and respectful and will always be made more than welcome again with that attitude.
Sorry drifting !
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Respect?
Fark me! It was your choice to drive an aeroplane for a living. Hardly any reason to expect unquestioning "respect".
Sorry to burst the bubble, but the mystique and marvel of being a pilot is just not that 'special' anymore. Do yourself a favour and stop believing all the spin and drivel of being a god-like aviator and concentrate on getting some life experience and maturity to deal with such situations. With that will come the respect that seems to be so eagerly craved.
TTFN
Fark me! It was your choice to drive an aeroplane for a living. Hardly any reason to expect unquestioning "respect".
Sorry to burst the bubble, but the mystique and marvel of being a pilot is just not that 'special' anymore. Do yourself a favour and stop believing all the spin and drivel of being a god-like aviator and concentrate on getting some life experience and maturity to deal with such situations. With that will come the respect that seems to be so eagerly craved.
TTFN
Last edited by SokPuppet; 28th Jan 2013 at 08:01.
Sok,
Firstly, the first P in Pprune. Cheers. Go back to the other forum.
Secondly, your toys are a great deal more simple than most other things, so the mystique may have gone from them, but not most real aircraft...
Third. You went from Bla3 saying that there were some really good respectul ppl pax to somehow he's acting god like and should get some life experience. Great word twisting there, I think I was married to you once...
Fourth. When you are in someone else's office, you should show respect, whether a PPL, wreckreational pilot or 747 jockey. If you don't think that is cockpit ettiquette, then you really are out of touch. I had people like you as passengers. We don't want unquestioning respect as you inferred. But next time you go flying, think about how you'd feel if your pax asked to see the MR and W+B for the flight before giving you a minute by minute critique of your flying and they aren't even an RAA pilot? Go on, say you wouldn't mind it, then we'll know you're lying.
Fifth. You couldn't be past the kiddie competition. You fly toys.
j3
Firstly, the first P in Pprune. Cheers. Go back to the other forum.
Secondly, your toys are a great deal more simple than most other things, so the mystique may have gone from them, but not most real aircraft...
Third. You went from Bla3 saying that there were some really good respectul ppl pax to somehow he's acting god like and should get some life experience. Great word twisting there, I think I was married to you once...
Fourth. When you are in someone else's office, you should show respect, whether a PPL, wreckreational pilot or 747 jockey. If you don't think that is cockpit ettiquette, then you really are out of touch. I had people like you as passengers. We don't want unquestioning respect as you inferred. But next time you go flying, think about how you'd feel if your pax asked to see the MR and W+B for the flight before giving you a minute by minute critique of your flying and they aren't even an RAA pilot? Go on, say you wouldn't mind it, then we'll know you're lying.
Fifth. You couldn't be past the kiddie competition. You fly toys.
j3
The goal of all pilots is to be professional...not A professional...professional. If it isn't then your an accident waiting to happen. James Ozzie keep watching and learning...AS J3 alluded there is an etiquette that must be followed, after the trip and if you can get the pilot when they aren't busy...just ask the question...they shouldn't bite. Its all about learning to be a better pilot.
Until the day they make an aeroplane that flies itself like an automatic car is the day we can all become stearers and forget about calling flying a profession. (See Centuarus' thread to see where that leads)
As for the know-it-alls
you just have to live with them and smile because the customer is allways right and thats what they are...customers who you have made a small wad of money from for your boss.... You cannot stop the coach and let them have a go at a real gearbox to show them how hard it really is to drive.
By the way, most of what I know about flying as a PPL came from bumming around this wide brown land with some bludy good pilots. I just sat and watched and asked and learned...and it cost me nothing and I learnt heaps
Until the day they make an aeroplane that flies itself like an automatic car is the day we can all become stearers and forget about calling flying a profession. (See Centuarus' thread to see where that leads)
As for the know-it-alls
you just have to live with them and smile because the customer is allways right and thats what they are...customers who you have made a small wad of money from for your boss.... You cannot stop the coach and let them have a go at a real gearbox to show them how hard it really is to drive.By the way, most of what I know about flying as a PPL came from bumming around this wide brown land with some bludy good pilots. I just sat and watched and asked and learned...and it cost me nothing and I learnt heaps
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J3,
You are missing the point, but demonstrating it perfectly. Ozbus gets it, but he's probably got a bit of grey starting to happen around his temples and has seen the folly of it all.
Perhaps a confusing of courtesy with respect is where the problem lies. Don't worry about it though. It'll all make sense given time.
TTFN
You are missing the point, but demonstrating it perfectly. Ozbus gets it, but he's probably got a bit of grey starting to happen around his temples and has seen the folly of it all.
Perhaps a confusing of courtesy with respect is where the problem lies. Don't worry about it though. It'll all make sense given time.
TTFN
Pretty words Puppet and awesome way to bring the whole, maybe when you're older argument into it, but it doesn't really work. I am interested how I demonstrate the point though. Please elaborate, I'm interested in hearing your logic, also while you're at it, explain to me how the previous post came across as god like. Or would you just prefer to stick to the old, when you're experienced gem?
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J3,
Here's a challenge for you. Go back and read what you wrote. Then come back and explain what your motive was and what you were thinking at the time.
Can you do it subjectively?
The OP asked a simple enough question and explained his motive for asking it. How the thread degenerated to another anti PPL thread is quite stunning.
Mav, I lied about my age...shhh!
Here's a challenge for you. Go back and read what you wrote. Then come back and explain what your motive was and what you were thinking at the time.
Can you do it subjectively?
The OP asked a simple enough question and explained his motive for asking it. How the thread degenerated to another anti PPL thread is quite stunning.
Mav, I lied about my age...shhh!
I tell ya what Sok, I will if you will.
I addressed the poster with an earlier comment. And the comments above were in response to your own vitriol laced post about getting life experience etc. How did you expect people to respond to that condescending drivel? Then to top it off you say your RAA ergo not qualified to comment...on matters regarding Commercial Aviation. You may ask questions and give opinions, but they are null and void as you lack any real aviation experience.
So yes my post today was having a go, but only in response to you...
j3
I addressed the poster with an earlier comment. And the comments above were in response to your own vitriol laced post about getting life experience etc. How did you expect people to respond to that condescending drivel? Then to top it off you say your RAA ergo not qualified to comment...on matters regarding Commercial Aviation. You may ask questions and give opinions, but they are null and void as you lack any real aviation experience.
So yes my post today was having a go, but only in response to you...
j3
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J3,
I already have. At 15:44, third paragraph.
As for condescending drivel? Isn't that what started this thread drift? And see, you've done it again. I don't pretend to be anything other than someone who flits a little aeroplane around for the sheer pleasure of it. You're turning that fact into another avenue for attack.
No, I'm not critiquing your or their commercial ops. I'm calling quite a few punters on this site for their arrogance and egos, and I don't think that there is a formal qualification for that. Or perhaps there is? CertIV in spot the immature poseur? It appears that if one drives an aeroplane around for a crust, it is implied that there is expectation that people should be in awe of it...Nope, sorry.
I do what I do for a living and carry no expectation that you or anyone else be in awe about it. Sorry, but I feel the same way about what you do for a living too.
TTFN
I already have. At 15:44, third paragraph.
As for condescending drivel? Isn't that what started this thread drift? And see, you've done it again. I don't pretend to be anything other than someone who flits a little aeroplane around for the sheer pleasure of it. You're turning that fact into another avenue for attack.
No, I'm not critiquing your or their commercial ops. I'm calling quite a few punters on this site for their arrogance and egos, and I don't think that there is a formal qualification for that. Or perhaps there is? CertIV in spot the immature poseur? It appears that if one drives an aeroplane around for a crust, it is implied that there is expectation that people should be in awe of it...Nope, sorry.
I do what I do for a living and carry no expectation that you or anyone else be in awe about it. Sorry, but I feel the same way about what you do for a living too.
TTFN
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Sok puppet. It is you who have missed the point. No one on here has asked for more than professional courtesy and respect. PPL pilots are re-knowned in the industry for being rude, obnoxious or just plain know it alls when their friends and families are around. The stories about the 206 and the caravan were hilarious.
If a PPL were to approach us and say, "I have a PPL, would you mind if I sit and watch you?" then most CPL's wouldn't have a problem. We may not be able to answer your legitimate enquiries on how/why we do things different do to time/work constraints, that is not to being rude or arrogant, it is because we are at work and may have another job to do straight away.
I don't know what you do for a living, but here is and example. Let say your builder. I turn up to your worksite friends and family in tow, and immediatly start to question your footings, foundations, plumbing etc. When you ask me for my qualifications instead of saying I'm a builder also, this is what I do, I say "I built my carport at home in a weekend from kit form". You wouldn't be impressed would you.
Finally, without getting into the whole RAA vs GA rant.
How does flying RAA qualify you to criticise commercial pilots? Yes some RAA aircraft to go fast. But speed isn't everything. I say this so you can't turn around and say you fly an RV6 which does 180kts.
If I put you in a 310, B58, 210, 206, PA31, C402 do you think you would up to speed. Being a good commercial pilot isn't just about good stick skills. Its about staying ahead of the aircraft. It is also about SA, and operating the aircraft efficiently. We don't just flit around, we are doing a job. If you can't respect pilots, then don't fly. Cause next time you go on holidays, how can you step on a jet without respecting the pilots. I wouldn't let my family live in a house built by a builder I didn't respect.
If a PPL were to approach us and say, "I have a PPL, would you mind if I sit and watch you?" then most CPL's wouldn't have a problem. We may not be able to answer your legitimate enquiries on how/why we do things different do to time/work constraints, that is not to being rude or arrogant, it is because we are at work and may have another job to do straight away.
I don't know what you do for a living, but here is and example. Let say your builder. I turn up to your worksite friends and family in tow, and immediatly start to question your footings, foundations, plumbing etc. When you ask me for my qualifications instead of saying I'm a builder also, this is what I do, I say "I built my carport at home in a weekend from kit form". You wouldn't be impressed would you.
Finally, without getting into the whole RAA vs GA rant.
I don't pretend to be anything other than someone who flits a little aeroplane around for the sheer pleasure of it. You're turning that fact into another avenue for attack.
If I put you in a 310, B58, 210, 206, PA31, C402 do you think you would up to speed. Being a good commercial pilot isn't just about good stick skills. Its about staying ahead of the aircraft. It is also about SA, and operating the aircraft efficiently. We don't just flit around, we are doing a job. If you can't respect pilots, then don't fly. Cause next time you go on holidays, how can you step on a jet without respecting the pilots. I wouldn't let my family live in a house built by a builder I didn't respect.
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How does flying RAA qualify you to criticise commercial pilots? Yes some RAA aircraft to go fast. But speed isn't everything. I say this so you can't turn around and say you fly an RV6 which does 180kts.
If I put you in a 310, B58, 210, 206, PA31, C402 do you think you would up to speed. Being a good commercial pilot isn't just about good stick skills. Its about staying ahead of the aircraft. It is also about SA, and operating the aircraft efficiently. We don't just flit around, we are doing a job. If you can't respect pilots, then don't fly. Cause next time you go on holidays, how can you step on a jet without respecting the pilots. I wouldn't let my family live in a house built by a builder I didn't respect.
If I put you in a 310, B58, 210, 206, PA31, C402 do you think you would up to speed. Being a good commercial pilot isn't just about good stick skills. Its about staying ahead of the aircraft. It is also about SA, and operating the aircraft efficiently. We don't just flit around, we are doing a job. If you can't respect pilots, then don't fly. Cause next time you go on holidays, how can you step on a jet without respecting the pilots. I wouldn't let my family live in a house built by a builder I didn't respect.
I've had one guy tell me he thought it would have been a safer procedure to remain gliding distance from land (of course, we were in a twin), and another comment to his mates that I was a cowboy for flying a very tight circling approach (as requested by ATC) which was obviously five times tighter than the jumbo circuits he was used to flying.
If I criticised the flying techniques of a 20,000 hour lifetime professional, I'd expect to be treated the same way - which is why when I'm airborne with my CP and he gives me some professional advice, I take it.
Zapp and Air Up there have very valid points. I know i have done the wrong and waded into another commercial pilots technique when I was only a PPL. i was put in my place very very quickly. in all my training one of the best bits of advice i was ever given, and has kept me out of trouble ever since has been
"just nod your head and say 'uh huh'. If their wrong you can say your a d!ckhead in your own head, if their right, its up to you what you do"
"just nod your head and say 'uh huh'. If their wrong you can say your a d!ckhead in your own head, if their right, its up to you what you do"
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I took the long way to say "we know what we are doing, please don't be wankers PPL guys, be courteous" didnt I.
Basically jamesozzie, if you ask a genuine question we will give a genuine answer(90% will, 10% are wankers).
Basically jamesozzie, if you ask a genuine question we will give a genuine answer(90% will, 10% are wankers).
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How does flying RAA qualify you to criticise commercial pilots?
You'll find I'm having a go at the wankers who want to put themselves on pedestals and belittle others.
Thread Starter
Yikes! A few sensitivities out there. I guess next time I am paxing I won't breathe a word...I am sorry to see some posters getting so uptight - relax people, its just a web site!
But to re-state: I am sure the troublesome PPL pax described above are a minority whose mummies never taught them common manners - not a result of defective flight training or qualifications.
Hopefully you carry more PPLs than you realize as most say nothing?
But to re-state: I am sure the troublesome PPL pax described above are a minority whose mummies never taught them common manners - not a result of defective flight training or qualifications.
Hopefully you carry more PPLs than you realize as most say nothing?